| Author | Message | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 97 Registered: 1-2005  |
I just recently re read the book: "People of the Lie" by Scott Peck. I found this quote to be very appropriate to many of our spiritual journeys: "Attitudes have a kind of inertia. Once set in motion, they will keep going, even in the face of the evidence. To change an attitude requires a considerable amount of work and suffering. The process must begin either in an effortfully maintained posture of constant self-doubt and criticism or else in a painful acknowledgement that what we thought was right all along may not be right after all. Then it proceeds into a state of confusion. This state is quite uncomfortable, we no longer seem to know what is right or wrong or which way to go. But it is a state of openness and therefore of learning and growing. It is only from the quicksand of confusion that we are able to leap to the new and better vision." Can anyone relate!?! | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hi, My name is Grace and this will be my first post on this forum. I have been visiting this website off and on for the past year. I have found comfort in being able to read the posts on this forum that so often illustrate exactly how I am feeling. It's nice to know that I am not alone. I have been Adventist my entire life. I attended Adventist church school through elementary, academy, college (Andrews), and even grad school (Loma Linda). I was raised in MI, where I truly feel SDAism is the most rigid (afterall that's where it all began). Both my parents and my husband's parents are very traditional SDAs. We prepared Sabbath meals on Friday, "guarded the edges of the Sabbath" very carefully, and had sundown worship every Friday and Saturday night. Adventism is very much a part of who I am. I was a very good Adventist. I went ingathering, gave Bible studies in High School and college, and even had some articles printed in the Adventist Review, and Insight magazine. Having said that, my recent walk and daily discovery of all that the New Testament teaches (when I look back on all of the Bible knowledge that I grew up with, I realize aside from the gospels, I was taught VERY little about the New Testament), has been very painful from me. So yes Lindylou, I can definitely relate! I go back and forth between thinking that Adventists are missing so much of what the gospel message is really about, to thinking, "Oh know, I must be falling into the trap that Satan wants me to be in! Maybe I'm the 'elect' that's being decieved". One minute I'll read something that clarifies so much, and is so convincing about not being bound to the law, and then I think "of course we need the law...we need some sort of standard". And back and forth it goes. On and on I go between feeling this sense of relief in that I actually understand the true gospel message and the beauty of grace, to a state of sudden panic that I'm turning away from the truth and dooming myself to being eternally lost. I have been studying obsessively (or passionately depending on how you look at it) for the past 6 months. I've been studying the Sabbath and the New Covenant extensively. Earlier this year, I've really researched Ellen White's writings and claims to test her authenticity as a prophet. What I've been discovering has really shaken my faith and all the "pillars" of who I am. I know I don't have to go into all that I've discovered because it's the same stuff that other questioning Adventists on this forum have come to realize. Through my study, I'm mostly convinced that Adventism doesn't have the "truth", and actually is pretty far from it. I say mostly, because there is that ounce of doubt that scares me to death. I still fear that I'm a part of that "shaking" that comes at the end of time and I am putting my salvation at risk by this period of soul-searching. (Although funny thing is, I've never had the assurance of salvation even as a 'perfect' Adventist). I find myself constantly questioning my motives. Am I looking for the easy way out by not keeping the law perfectly? Am I trying to rationalize away the law as our standard so that I don't have to work as hard? I've been hesitant in posting on this forum because...well this is a big step for me. But I've come to a point in my journey that I need support. Within this last couple of weeks I finally got the courage to share what I've been learning with my family and close friends (who are Adventist). I wasn't going to at first, but the more I learned, the more I realized what "good news" the gospel really was. I couldn't hold it in any longer. As a result though, I have a very worried family, and many worried friends. I have been bombarded with many emails and phone calls. It's been overwhelming, and I must say has gotten to me a bit. What if they're right? What if Adventists really do have the truth and I am turning away from it? Do the doubts ever really go away? | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1000 Registered: 3-2005 |
Welcome Snowboardingmom to FAF! Thanks for sharing your story. The spirit of Adventism is very hard to break. It looks like you have done considerable homework. You have tested Adventism's so-called truths and have found them wanting. One thing we can be certain of is that God's Word cannot lie. Manmade religions such as SDA do lie. Yes, the doubts will be there, and they may never go away, but by faith trusting in God's infallible and inerrant Word, we can be confident in the Holy Spirit's leading. I sometimes think of a popular song sung by the Eagles called "Hotel California", which is about the spirit world. There is a line at the end that says "you can check out anytime, but you can never leave". Because the spirit of sabbatarianism and Adventism is so strong, and the guilt trip that was put upon us was so strong, it can be difficult. I sometimes think of the vision EGW had of the halo around the 4th commandment, and wonder, what if? But then clear texts of scripture come to mind and all fear is gone. In Christ we have our Sabbath rest! | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2004 |
Welcome Grace! What a wonderful name to have! I was frightened even to read the sites that were against EGW. That is the first thing to come to mind "the shaking" when you question things. I remember thinking "is this God leading me or Satan?" It is so sad that there is this fear hold on us from this...same as the mormons and JW's and anyone else who says that perfection or attempting to keep the law will earn you the right to inherit eternal life. That verse "perfect love casts out fear" comes to mind when I am frightened. Believe me, I grew up with constant fear of being lost. It overshadowed my ability to understand the beauty of God's desire for me to be with Him forever. How can you have a walk with Jesus when you are living in fear that you might be sinning? And in my world, sinning was anything Ellen G. White said was evil, hundreds of pages of what she said was wrong, directly from heaven!!! I just think the worry of salvation has taken over the joy of the redemption that we have in Jesus (as an SDA) One day, when I was still entrenched in the religion I met a man who had left the SDA church and attended the Baptist church, something that I thought was unheard of! After all, it was "the truth". I asked him why, and he said "it just isn't that hard" and the way he said it was that the gospel is simple, not difficult, and it made sense. Also, as I was leaving and struggling in my mind, God led me in wonderful ways. Songs spoke to me, Bible studies took on a new meaning. It was like I awoke out of a stupor! Although don't get me wrong, it wasn't an instant thing. I have never experienced any fabulous instant change, I think because I am a natural worrier. I pray that God will give you peace and lead you in the truth of His Grace. As for the "shaking" I think the whole world is being shaken right now, either to the "Good News" or away from it, and the Good News is "that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us!" Bb (fellow mom) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 359 Registered: 7-2004  |
Welcome Grace. I hope that you find blessing and support posting here among friends. I don't know that the fears and doubts totally go away. I wasn't raised SDA, so I don't have the indoctrination since my earliest days. But even without that I get hit with those "what if they really were right" questions every now and then. Ultimately I have become more and more convinced that God's grace is the only answer that matters. I praise God that my salvation doesn't come from how well I can decipher prophetic passages. And I praise Him that my salvation doesn't come from how well I can explain every doctrine. But most importantly, I praise God because isn't about what I do, but about what He has already done. Those who are satisfied with the quality of their lawkeeping (like the Pharisees) don't see much need for a Savior, but those of us who recognize our wretched state cling to the hope of His grace. Without His grace there is no hope. This portion of a sermon from my parents pastor really struck home to me (they bring his printed sermons home each week and I still read them whenever I visit)
Is there a former SDA who can't relate to that description of Luther? Rick (a fellow AU grad) | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 99 Registered: 1-2005 |
Welcome Grace! One thing for sure - You are NOT alone in your seesawing feelings of newfound joy and incredible doubt. The thing that has kept me sane - is holding onto a single kernal of truth - "For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED!....... ANYONE who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!" Holding onto my salvation helps ease the doubts that come from all the old whisperings in my head about what I should be "doing" or the ideas that I am part of the "shaking" - doomed forever. Too long, SDA's have lumped salvation and behavior together. The Bible clearly separates the two. Our salvation is a constant - a wonderful thing already accomplished without our help. Behavioral issues are a completely different matter apart from salvation. It is hard to get our minds around that. It's too good to be true - but thank God it IS true! So take heart - out of this confusion will come a wonderful new joy and peace. And reading God's word without the EGW filters is SO MUCH FUN! It is a whole new book of discovery. Again, welcome! P.S. I went to Andrews one year - found it lovely in the fall - and COLD in the winter! Thought that it was run a bit like a fortress - with 5 deans and security guards and gates to pass through. (One year a group of us stole one of the security gates and chopped it up for souvenirs.  ) | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 380 Registered: 7-2000 |
Welcome Grace. You've begun the hard journey out of Adventism. Do the doubts and fears ever go away? For me, they have. What did it for me is realizing that the Bible is verbally inspired and inerrant in the original languages. We can undertand what is written, we can interpret the Word properly, and we can absolutely rely on what it says. No one has to go to EGW or some other outside source for 'inspired commentary'--the Bible is already inspired---it's living, active and capable of transforming you. Might I suggest (as you head into the next stage of your journey out) that you check out the link to the New Covenant theology beliefs. Then, look for a church with those beliefs that's near you to visit. You might find one that has services on Saturday night---which would make visiting a bit easier. We're here for you! Bill | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1999 Registered: 3-2004  |
Welcome to FAF Snowboardingmom, You are in the right place for recovery from Adventism. All of us have gone through what you are going through to some extent. The thing that is getting me through is knowing that Jesus fulfilled all the law and the prophets. When I feel doubtful about what is going on in my life, I look to Jesus and read the Bible and ask that the Holy Spirit teach me. God does not lie and when He tells me He will always be with me, I believe it. He will not lead me or you or anyone else astray. Pray, read and study your Bible and forget about EGW. Concentrate on the Bible and your relationship with Christ. He has you in His awesome hands and He will not drop you. Diana | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 186 Registered: 4-2002  |
Hi Grace, I give huge ditto's to all of the above. I would add my small piece of the puzzle. Adventists love to quote the text about Satan deceiving the "very elect". As usual they mis-quote it and take it out of context. Please read that text for yourself, in context and ALL OF IT. They love to scare with it but it is actually a promise. It says "IF POSSIBLE, Satan will deceive the very elect." Now read the end of Romans 8. Beginning with verse 28 through the end of the chapter. I think you'll see IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. So rest easy in Jesus and tell those who would steal your joy to take a hike, or join you in the most precious relationship anyone can have. With Jesus! Are they "the truth"? Sorry, only one can claim that and He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through ME." Hang on the Jesus. He's hanging on to you! <>< Thomas | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 89 Registered: 6-2005 |
Welcome Grace I so completely understand your feelings and the roller coaster. I too have been studying passionately for the last six months, and on the exact issues. I thank you for posting my story, it saves time. I didnít see a single sentence that did not apply to my life or experience at one time or another. It seems that the doubts and SDA texts pop into my mind after I have had the most incredible experiences of freedom and worship. Sometimes I can bask in grace for days at a time, and then suddenly some thought brings the joy to a screeching halt. That happened to me this morning. I pulled out a book, "Michael asks Why, the great controversy story for children, to see what was taught about the IJ by Adventists in simple language. It was quite convincing in parts, and says allot of the right phrases about a loving God. I felt that old fear about several issues related to "Babylon" and those that choose to follow those who change "laws and times". I pulled out my bible for comfort and alas I read Paul talking about women needing to cover their heads! Oh itís so confusing, I feel as if I will never figure it all out. So do I need to cover my head or what? Doesnít seem like I should pick and choose what I want to from the Bible. Please donít lol about this, itís so typical of the round and round places I go. Legalism, and the need to "get it right" are surely sticky places. I have found that the doubts do pass. Sometimes I pray, I ask others for prayer if I feel intensely conflicted, I read the bible, and I praise and worship when I least feel like it, and I think that has helped the most of all, along with the following: I REMIND MYSELF OF THE BIG PICTURE: I am experiencing Jesus as never before, I experience abundant peace as my soul wells up in praise. I appreciate the cross experience, I experience the resurrection victory, I actually feel and know that I am loved by God. I experience the connection with other children of God. I am able to love the unlovable even. These are new or deeper experiences than I have ever had practicing as an old covenant Christian. In the past, I actually hated corporate praise and worship time at my church. How do you feel true praise when itís all up to you to strive a little harder and do all the work of your salvation?? What is grace worth, when it has hundred of strings attached? Now I can barely contain my worship, and maybe I shouldnít! My hands go into the air spontaneously, I sing out loud even though my voice is probably not pleasant to others ears...except my Saviors. I REMIND MYSELF OF THE SMALL PICTURE: He loves me, created me, died for my sins, frees and equips me, is gonna take me home when he is ready. I believe and receive. End of story. Hugs and welcome JavaGirl | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1001 Registered: 3-2005 |
Loneviking mentioned a link to New Covenant theology beliefs. This was posted on another thread, but I will repost it here www.ptitx.org/News/whatis-NTC.htm Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1002 Registered: 3-2005 |
Also I would like to second what Ric_b said about Luther's quote above that he posted. Luther was a true pioneer in leaving cult-like counterfeits of Christianity. The same spirit of fear, doubts, and works-righteousness is common to all false religions. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2908 Registered: 12-2003  |
Grace, I am so glad you're here! For me, also, the doubts have gone away. It takes time, though--they would hit me unawares for several years, although their frequency decreased. The antidote is prayer and reading the Bible. God is faithful. Doubts cannot separate you from Him, and Satan will try to distract you with them. Look to Jesus. He is the Answer, the Truth, the One who reached down and opened your eyes! He will not fail you. Colleen | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2005 |
Welcome Grance, and I think from all these posts you will see you are not alone in these feelings. I was thinking that leaving the SDA church is something like going through a divorce, (although I haven't I imagine this is how it is) you are leaving something you think is hurful, or bad for you, you want to cling to the good parts (if there are some) and you dread the change into some unknown, even though you feel it is right and that God is with you. You change your identity, drastically. You mourn for what might have been. I know I had a period of mourning, and like a lot of others I still have to check some beliefs, was that something we heard and believed from Ellen, or was it really in the Bible? And with all such things it does get better--but let yourself mourn, then remind yourself of the better beliefs and times ahead!! | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2005 |
Wow! Thanks so much for the support! I was gone all day, so when I got on the internet and saw all of these encouraging posts, I was very touched. You guys have been such a blessing for me already. I can't even begin to describe how relieved I feel to know there are others who understand what I'm going through. I've had to remind myself that confusion isn't from God. He wants us to understand, and if I'm suddenly confused or discouraged about something, I need to examine why. Everytime I've done this, I've realized the confusion stems from a past thought or theology (usually based off of EGW's teaching), and not from what I'm actually reading in Scripture. It's still hard, but I'm starting to learn to differentiate between guilt and conviction. I've come to realize that guilt is based off of fear of a consequence, whereas conviction by the Holy Spirit leads us to action, and then we can let go of that feeling and be at peace. Guilt never brings about peace, only more fear. When I start questioning my newfound faith in grace, I'm pretty sure it's guilt I feel and not conviction. Any thoughts on this? Anyway, thanks again everyone for the posts. It really means a lot. Grace | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2004 Registered: 3-2004 |
Grace, For myself, whenever I feel guilt or confused about the Bible and anything connected to it, I know it is not from God. God is not the author of guilt or confusion. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 747 Registered: 7-2004 |
So beautifully stated, Grace. Guilt never brings peace, in fact it paralizes us with fear. I'm convinced that fear is an emotion from the pit of Hell, and we no longer are bound by guilt. Conviction is empowering, gives us a springboard for action, and a reason for gratitude as it relates to the Gospel of Grace. Welcome to our discussions, and I'm sure we will enjoy growing together as we celebrate Jesus' love. Thank you for starting to dialogue with us. Belva | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 376 Registered: 2-2002  |
Welcome Grace! Yes, we have all experienced exactly what you describe! As everyone else has recommended, spend your time in prayer and study of God's Word, nothing else! You will find a peace and assurance that can ONLY come from Him! God bless you in your journey, Love, Carol | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 |
SnowBoardingMom... Cool! Very Cool! To save time (not to mention mistakes) we will just go with Grace! I, too, have those same doubts. In fact, I almost started a thread Friday about this same thing - like you, I have (it is hard to type it..) started my journey out of Adventism. Honestly, my heart is heavy just to see those words. I lay awake at night and wonder 'Am I being decieved?' and 'How could what I have believed all my life be so wrong?' I read Ballenger's book 'Cast Out For The Cross Of Christ' a few months ago (after I read the book of Hebrews and was confronted with the irrefutable proof the Christ entered the Most Holy Place on His ascention, not in 1844) and I thought his book to be an honest examination of when Christ entered the MHP,etc. Then a few nights ago, I went to the EGW website and did a search for 'Ballenger'. What I found that EGW wrote really caused me to question what I had discovered in Hebrews. She states things with such authority and conviction! I have been plagued by doubt eventhough I KNOW the Bible says that EGW is wrong. The other thing I struggle with is the aloneness. I was the head elder in my church and highly respected. Now that some of the elders know that I have 'issues' they seem afraid of me. The worst part for me is that there is no one to talk to about what I am discovering through Bible study. Well, that is not exactly true - my wife is studying as well and so far we are on the same page about some much of what we are learning. Thank God for that! Well, enough of that. Welcome to the board. I suspect that most of those here are familiar with were you are and what you can expect. I know that there is One who is there with you! May you find Christ in all that you do. InSearchOf | ||
| Insearchof Registered user Username: Insearchof Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 |
Ric, Thanks for that piece on Martin Luthur. It really hits home that a giant such as Luthur had struggles too. I found it most encouraging. InSearchOf |
