| Author |
Message |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 763
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 8:41 pm: |     |
Dear Java,
I want to respond to your question about the relationship between yourself and Christ in light of the new birth exerience. I can only say that for me it is like a good marriage should be. It grows more comfortable, sweeter, and my trust factor is so much stronger than it has ever been before in my life.
When I was doing Christianity from an Adventist point of view I was compelled to think there was something that I had to do (become perfect) in order for Jesus to like me. Now that I know that He loves me and that whatever needs to be done has already been done by Him my response to Him is completely different. As you have so wonderfully acknowledged yourself there are moments of spontaneous gratitude that well up from deep inside throughout the day. I'm not presumptious about my salvation and its security, just completely awed and grateful.
Living with Jesus just gets sweeter every day. No, this newness that you are feeling won't go away or grow tepid. You finally are seeing things from the safety of His hands.
Belva |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2949
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 10:00 pm: | |
Javagirl, I want to second what Belva said above. The miracle is that the presence of Jesus has not gone away. Sometimes I am aware that if I just turn from my busyness, I am able to be immediately in conversation with Him and in worship of Him. I don't have to drum up a conviction or a feeling. He is in me, and I am in Him, and He holds me securely in Him. I find that I well up with tears sometimes just hearing the words that He died for my sins, or that He is Lord, etc.
I can't logically explain these things from my past paradigm, but I know that the new birth is very real. The more I am able to surrender the issues of life to Him, the more I experience His peace and presence and calm.
I'm so thankful for you, Javagirl, that you have experienced this astonishing, life-changing miracle. He will continue to be the Light that dispels all darkness!
Colleen |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 367
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 10:34 pm: | |
I received the following in an email today and have been spending time examining how this aplys to my life. <smile> Please prayerfully read it.
richard
--------------------------------------
November 21, 2005
John Paul Jackson: "The Speck, the Plank, and the Coming Move of God"
Sometimes, letting God be God is one of the hardest, most trying, most nerve-wracking experiences we can go through. Simply put, it is a matter of trust; for letting God be everything He wants to be in our life means we are no longer in control. Quite often, this is a very difficult thing to accept.
Our life is in His hands, not our own. In the same way, the lives of those around us are in His hands, not ours. We prayerfully commit them to Him, and after we have done so, we must let them go, for there isn't anything else we can do. This is what trust truly means--letting God be in control and do whatever He sees fit.
With this in mind, in the approaching revival, each of us must come to a decision: are we going to try to "fix" others ourselves? Or are we going to commit them to God and let God do the correcting, should He deem that any correcting truly needs to be done?
Not Everything Coheres To The Spiritual Ideals We Have In Our Hearts
Every day, God purposefully sets us in situations in which we have to answer a question where we have to decide who is the better leader: Him or us. One situation He uses all the time to teach us this is the Church. We are very aware of the fact that not everything we see in church is one hundred percent spiritual--in other words, free of the flesh. Not everything coheres to the spiritual ideals and standards we have in our hearts. But despite these things, God is God, and if He isn't offended by another's interactions with Him, neither should we.
We are entering a season in which God is leading His people out into the wild, unknown territory called the realm of the spirit. This means that much of what we will see, hear, and experience--and have already begun to see, hear, and experience--could be called. . . a little odd, to say the least.
We might be made uncomfortable. We might find heart issues, feelings, and strongholds rising up inside of us, and we previously had no idea they were there. But if we study past revivals and other incredible moves of God, we will find that each one was accompanied by actions and reactions humans could describe in only one of two ways: of God or of the flesh.
How Do We See Ourselves?
This is where trust is so important. God knows what He is about and what He is doing, even when we do not.
Before deciding, "It's time to remove the speck from our brother's or sister's eye," we have to stop and examine our motives. How do we see ourselves? Do we view ourselves as the Christian Gestapo? The spiritual police? God can so easily stop what is not from Him. It is not our responsibility to do so.
What stopped every one of the major moves of God in the past was criticism. Somebody thought he or she knew what God wanted. Somebody attempted to rein-in and quiet the crowd, and in so doing, he or she stopped-up the flow of the Holy Spirit.
True revival comes to the contrite and humble, to those who love one another, and to those who hunger and thirst for righteousness and for God to move in their lives. God, by definition, is not human, and so we cannot expect to keep our fallen human nature when we are in His presence.
Either we become like Him, letting go of our criticism, pride, and the need to be correct, or we pull away. The only way we will see God face-to-face is if we choose to lose ourselves and allow God to do everything He desires and be everything He desires, not only in us, but in those around us as well.
|
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2031
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 5:24 pm: | |
Now I know how to treat a sister that has been giving grief. Just leave her to God and I will not interfere. God does a much better job than I do.
Thank you God. You are awesome.
Diana |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 10:15 pm: | |
Richard, Since this is a thread about Thanksgiving, then I will say thanks for posting that email from John Paul Jackson, who is a major player on TBN. Since you posted this email without giving us your comments, then I would be curious about what you think of it? He said a lot of good things, but there are some troubling things:
Quote "We are entering a season in which God is leading His people out into the wild, unknown territory called the realm of the spirit. This means that much of what we will see, hear and experience--and have already begun to see, hear, and experience--could be called...a little odd to say the least."
Now, knowing that this particular teacher on TBN spends a lot of time on visions and dreams, then it raises the real problem of subjectivism, and frankly makes me somewhat uncomfortable, or am I being overly critical?
Here is another quote from above that is interesting: "What stopped every one of the major moves of God in the past was criticism....Somebody attempted to rein in and quiet the crowd, and in so doing, he or she stopped-up the flow of the Holy Spirit".
Now, I have a question to ask, if God wants to bring revival, is this teacher saying that we mere mortals have the power to stop it by criticizing it?. And could someone give me a scriptural example where men or women "stopped-up the flow of the Holy Spirit?"
I remember being at a pentecostal church in Anaheim called Melodyland years ago. Dr. Walter Martin was teaching a Bible class on the book of Acts. He clearly showed from several examples in that book that we can in no way stop the flow of the Holy Spirit. In fact, when he came out and said it many people there got upset at him for attacking one of their important doctrines.
Do you have thoughts on this Richard? Does anyone else have opinions on this?
Stan |
Lisa_boyldavis
Registered user
Username: Lisa_boyldavis
Post Number: 124
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 1:19 pm: | |
Criticizing criticism is a great way to stifle truth. We just left a church that did just that. Mortals have voices and they should be heard.
Lisa
|
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 3:57 pm: | |
Yes, and especially some of the TBN faith teachers. They always claim to be above criticism, and they like to say that those who criticize are touching the Lord's anointed. Ellen White did similar things, and she was into dreams and visions as well, and she used to plant guilt trips on people for criticizing her. This phenomena is not unique to EGW.
Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1038
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 5:21 pm: | |
Richard, I have had some time to reflect on the above posts, and your email you posted, as well as more time to research the ministry of John Paul Jackson. If I came across as too brash, forgive me. But, there are some other important concerns that need to be stated about this teacher. He apparently was one of the so-called Kansas City Prophets, who believe the Old Testament office of Prophet is still valid for the New Covenant. This is what EGW believed, and in fact these prophets made similar claims to EGW. Also the emphasis of Jackson's ministry is on interpreting dreams and visions from God. You can go to his web site at www.streamsministries.com/dreams.php and find what seems to be very concerning. In fact they even offer to interpret your dreams you have at night to give you the Biblical significance of them.
I will admit to you that I have a lot to learn about the Holy Spirit, and the gifts for today. In fact, because of my fondness for Grudem's systematic theology, I am rethinking some of my old cessationist beliefs. But, these type of teachers such as Jackson are so clearly out in left field, and totally out of the main stream, that they should not be heeded as prophets.
I am sorry, if this comes across as unloving in any way, but since you brought up this email, I felt I needed to say something about it. I would also appreciate your thoughts Richard, as well as others.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2987
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:33 am: | |
I share your concern, Stan, with modern day prophets patterned after the OT office of Prophet. The NT gift of prophecy is a different function from the OT office of prophet.
Hebrews 1:1-2 continues to be the "gold standard" for me: "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe."
OT prophets revealed God's plan and purposes, foretold the Messiah, revealed God's nature and will and heart. Jesus fulfilled all those things and lived among us as God incarnate. He is God's final word to us about Himself and His salvation in these last days .
NT gifts of prophecy are for the building of the body of Christ. Their function is not to reveal new nuances of salvation or to reveal new knowledge or information about God and His will. Yes, I believe sometimes God uses prophecy to issue warnings (ie Agabus in Acts prophesying a famine and foretelling Paul's fate in Rome), and sometimes He gives people words to call people to repentance, to give warning, encouragement, etc. that can only have their origins in the Holy Spirit.
But NT prophecy is not for the purpose of establishing new "rules" for worship, for revealing formulas that result in God's blessing, for establishing new insights into God's "program", etc. The Bible truly reveals ALL we need to know to grow, deepen, and be prepared for the future.
The main role of the Holy Spirit is to exalt Christ. His indwelling and gifting of us is for the purpose of revealing and exalting Jesus and His complete sufficiency, even in the church and the individual. Paul says it so well in Ephesians 3:16-19:
"I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that suprasses knowledgeóthat you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God."
The point of being strengthened by the Spirit in our inner being is to experience Christ living in our hearts through faith, to grasp the unmeasurable love of Jesus, and to KNOW his unknowable love.
IN CHRIST is where we experience God's mighty power and love. The inheritance we are promised is not power and riches for us but the Spirit's power that will cause us to become part of God's glory.
"To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen" (Ephesians 3:21).
Colleen |
91steps
Registered user
Username: 91steps
Post Number: 30
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 2:42 pm: | |
Diana, the job is FANTASTIC!!! Sure is a breath of fresh air. Although the 140 mile round trip commute each day is a rough, I work a 3 on and 3 off and 4 on and 4 off schedule, so that is nice. |
|
