| Author |
Message |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 298
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 9:44 am: |     |
Dennis, How could this ever happen? The GC is not going to stand for that and would they not have to start all over with a building etc? Then you would have to have a pastor willing to step out and put his salary from the conference on the line. It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall at that meeting. |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 156
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 1:33 pm: | |
We had a small Church that the Conference down-graded to a company, because of our small size. Then we had even less say in our business than before! We were given ultimatums that we had to follow or we would "be shut down". We were costing the Conference no money, were completely covering all our expenses, and sending tithe to the Conference. We even made money for the Conference by renting out our parking lot for a "Park and Ride" lot. We had no pastor either! Finally we were given a 1/2 pastor! That meant we got a 20 minute sermon twice a month and NOTHING ELSE! When we complained we were threatened! Then there was a man who was admittedly a trouble-maker for the Conference. He pointed out that the "emporor had no clothes". He wanted to start attending our little Church. The conference told us he was not allowed on the property and we were to call the police if he showed up! We declined and were again threatened and put "on probation". This man did show up when the "pastor" was there and the pastor called the police, because none of the rest of us would! Eventually we were closed because we wouldn't follow the conference "rules". I was amazed that a "Christian" denomination's authority would be so abusive. The thing was - they wanted to sell "our" property for alot of $$ so they had to get rid of us! And then when the sale fell through they now rent that church building to a Catholic Church!!!
I'm so glad we got out of all that! It was so hard to go home each week after Church and cry. I just knew that this couldn't be where God wanted me!
You're right DT - "the notion of local control is a fairy tale".
-tisha |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 688
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 8:41 am: | |
Tisha, that's the craziest story I have ever heard! |
Mrsbrian3
Registered user
Username: Mrsbrian3
Post Number: 23
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 10:25 am: | |
I agree with Pheeki. That is just crazy!!! And beyond that, it is just WRONG.
Although ... I wonder how you get on that trouble maker list ... 
Kim |
Taybie
Registered user
Username: Taybie
Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 12:55 pm: | |
Kim,
I am with you on that one. I sometimes just want to blatantly tell all of the sda friends I have left...YOU ARE BEING LIED TO!!!!!!!!! RUUUUUUUUUUN FORRRRREST, RUN!!! The sad thing is, a clogged head is useles for new information...
I just want to get the medicine in them!! But, I digress, the Lord has not led me down such a road...yet |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 158
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 12:21 pm: | |
It took that much craziness to finally make me see that I was not going to make any changes within SDAism. I finally "got it" that the denomination had no intention of changing course. That is when we made our break with the SDA Denomination. It wasn't because of the abusive culture, but because we were understanding how doctrinally wrong they were. As long as we accepted the doctrine, we were willing to endure the abuse! That is such a sad commentary on the control the church had on us. But when we learned how wrong the doctrine is, we still thought we could stay and facilitate changes from within. When that wasn't going to happen, at least in our lifetime, we had to leave to keep our sanity.
All that agony was the best thing to happen to us, because now we can see how it led us to study our way out!
I want to be very clear - we left because of the false doctrine, not because of the abuse!
-tisha |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 482
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 1:35 pm: | |
FREEDOM IN CHRIST
The following Pauline passages exhibit our freedom in Christ. Additionally, they portray an unmistakable, common authorship as well:
"Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Cor. 9:7 NASU).
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind" (Rom. 14:5 NASU).
Under the Old Covenant, God largely mandated the amount of giving and what was considered a festal convocation (Lev. 23); however, under the New Covenant, we have the freedom to address these issues as we are led by the Holy Spirit. It is refreshing to keep these contrasts in mind as we live a Spirit-led life.
In awe of His grace,
Dennis Fischer |
Pauls
Registered user
Username: Pauls
Post Number: 44
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 5:23 am: | |
i used to be really, really angry angry about the misuse of funds in the church. (actually, i used to be angry at all injustice i encountered in the world) but one day, God asked me:
how big is My grace?
I said big. really big. its in your Word.
Big enough to forgive these men who abused my money and my people?
And I said, well, God I don't know. what about Matt 18:6-7 why don't you judge them in front of all of us now! send fire and burn them up!
He only asked: whose grace is it --mine or yours?
well Lord, its yours
My grace is unmerited favor lavished on the most disgusting and undeserving--is it not?
well, yes Lord.
who is the most undeserving?
well, all those SDA leaders who abuse their position.
Is my grace big enough to forgive you?
Well, I hope so, Lord. Im sort banking on it
Then how big is my grace....
ok, Lord, your grace in the end might just let these guys get off scott free--might even put them in a mansion next door to mine....please no!
In the end, my son, If you do not learn to forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Heavenly father forgive yours. Mat 6:14
and another question: who is in charge of things around here? Me or you?
well, i guess you are Lord
so whose plan is being carried out? Mine or yours
well, i like my plan best, but you are sovereign God....
don't you think that I can deal with my own creation (Rom 13:1) in my own time and way?
well, i suppose, but i like my way better--let me call down fire from heaven...
Is My wisdom subject to your second guessing?
sorry Lord
So i had to learn to give it up to God and I am working on the forgiveness part recognizing that what judgment i mete out on others, it is the same judgement that will be meted out to me Matt 7:2......
P.S. I am not trying to defend the church nor criticize those who feel called to reform. only point out that the wrongs of others can become thorns in our spiritual sides and to point out that our "dirty" hearts are between us and God just like their "dirty" hearts are between them and God.
If God has called up someone to engage the church on reform, you are in my prayers indeed (Gal 6:1 is for you!) but the proof is that it will be done after the order of Matt 18:15, it will be done redemptively, with love and tact, as Jesus did when he took on Simon (Luke 7:40-47) and it will be done without malice, dirt throwing etc...and we all should remember that it is the HS job to convict of sin...
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2867
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 2:42 pm: | |
True, Pauls.
The forgiveness we must do when our offender never says "I'm sorry", even when that offender is the church, does not ignore or forget the sin.
These situations call for the forgiveness Jesus did on the cross. He did not Himself forgive those who crucified Him. They did not ask for forgiveness, and He could not forgive them. He turned them over to the Father: "Father, forgive them..."
When Stephen was stoned, he did the same thing. He committed those Jews to God and asked Him to forgive them. He couldn't do it because they were not asking him for forgiveness, but he had to let it go to God, knowing God is the God of both justice and mercy. He wasn't asking God to forgive them without any repentance on their part; he was asking God to deal with them and giving up his own "rights" to outrage and desire for revenge.
We can never pretend an unrepented sin doesn't exist and isn't still a potential problem. We must be aware of it in order to protect ourselves from gullible vulnerability. (You don't have a grandma who once abused her children stay with your own kids unsupervised, for example,.)
But when there's no "I'm sorry," we must surrender that person to God and trust Himn to deal with them. We can't carry around that revenge and anger ourselves. It will ultimately kill us.
Colleen |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 87
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 10:17 am: | |
Pauls, I enjoyed your conversation with God! A good reminder that God is very big indeed and has enough grace for the entire world.
I have relatives who are very concerned with me as I have left the "truth" and more so because they have become "Jewish" SDA's - and believe so strongly in keeping old testament laws and feast days. So while I no longer attend the SDA church, got my ears pierced and drink an occasional glass of wine - these relatives pray daily for my salvation and worry that I am leading my husband and children down the path to perdition. I've often thought: What will they have to say when we pass each other on the heavenly streets of gold or end up living next to each other in our heavenly mansions?
Maybe then they will understand GRACE!?
Your conversation with God - helps me remember that when I am feeling "judgmental" towards them for their legalism - that God's grace is indeed
BIG enough for all of us. |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 349
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 6:43 am: | |
Pauls, I also loved your conversation/arguement with God. I find that if I'm being honest I always lose those arguements.
Richard
PS: I'm saddened at how often I have these "discussions" with God but I always come out of them with a closer relationship.
rtruitt@mac.com
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