| Author | Message | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 249 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hehe. You have no idea how this conversation was just what I needed to take a sigh of relief this morning  I'm up to my eyeball in Shawn Boonstra and Amazing Facts materials, impassioned pleas to repent from my family, and condescending letters to convince me that the state of the dead is where all human reckonings go wrong (with the devilís lie of ìyou shall not dieî). I know sometimes itís hard for some because they see what feels like negativity scrawled across all these pagesÖbut I must cast my two cents in and say that this is the only place I can come to vent, and share like experiences. From my heart I only feel love for all those entrenched in this legalistic system, but that doesnít change my experience with it, or the pain it continues to cause. That said, growing up in a pastors family we would welcome in the Sabbath quietly and with all secular things away and only special sabbath things out. But then, we fly around the county on sabbath. Running between at least two church services (sometimes 3). Looking back, I can honestly say that sabbaths were the most stressful day of the week. It was nonstop confusion at a mad pace that left little room for family and nill for resting. In that segment of time my brother and I would impatiently wait for "those edges" to be gone, so the week would return to normal and we could start having some fun. In the upper midwest at least, our area was known for it's spunky saturday night socials...and now it seems maybe we were all celebrating the days end. In my own home just nearly 2 years ago, I would fight the panic of scramble and the ever losing battle of trying to get everything done before sunset, and the overwhelming guilt when the laundry wasn't dry yet, or dinner wasn't coming out of the oven. More often than not sabbath was about rest in our home...sleeping the hours away to prepare for whatever we would do that evening...that and recouperating from the gauntlet of friday afternoon. I can't say enough how reading all these stories and remembering my former life does so much to sooth my soul as I cope with the fears of my family and friends. The mental hoopla one goes through as an Adventist to make all the pieces stay in the puzzle. I know I saw myself as "righteous" because I tried so hard to DO everything right. But while I was barking out orders to my husband of what needed to be done, I was judging those around me (mostly to make myself feel better) as to how they kept the sabbath, or measured up to the available doses of religion. I praise God continually to seeing me in my filth, for loving me unconditionally, and for offering His own Son, my Savior Jesus, to pay the price for my failures. only God could have devised the plan to save humanity and only He opened my eyes to my sin, and shined the light of His Gospel into my life. I praise Him for the freedom I experience in Jesus! I Cor 1:21-25 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1878 Registered: 3-2004  |
Ahh, I do remember everything every one has said about keeping the Sabbath. As for resting on the Sabbath, I remember reading in a book by EGW that SDAs should not sleep on Sabbath afternoon. Does anyone remember that?? God rested on the 7th day after creating the world, the Children of Israel rested and then we were told by EGW that we could not rest on the Sabbath. Thank God He took me out of that. You are awesome God. Diana | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Everyone, Not written for some time, God is good. Have settled into our new church and involved... I don't cry every time I talk about leaving Adventism anymore, a sign of healing I want to say as I read this dialogue about the Sabbath I am reminded of what a Golden Calf the Sabbath has become for Adventists. Not intentionally, but the case neverthelessÖ It is ultimately SALVATION, JOY, and IDENTITY to them. Salvation is provided by the keeping of the Sabbath so that they avoid the mark of the beast. My Salvation is Jesus Blood. The continual phrase "Happy Sabbath" infers a kind of JOY derived from the keeping of the Sabbath. My Joy is in the Lord. His Spirit overtakes me and rests my frenzied, selfish attempts at life; as He slows me down to know that He is God at anytime and in any place. Seventh day Adventists are known for their Sabbath keeping. I am IDENTIFIED by my LOVE, by Him changing me from a judger of others to a LOVER of each personís heart and soul. I need SO MUCH MORE THAN THE SABBATH TO SWEEP ME OFF MY FEET AND MAKE ME WHOLE. I NEED JESUS. I know people observing the Sabbath WANT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT for the most part, but Jesus came BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO WHAT IS RIGHT and did for me what I couldn't do. HE HAS BECOME MY REST, MY SALVATION, MY JOY, AND MY IDENTITY. Lisa P.S. Thank you for the magazine you send. It's our new "Review" and "Gleaner". | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2650 Registered: 12-2003  |
Welcome back, Diana! How was the cruise? Yes, I remember also that EGW said not to sleep in Sabbath afternoon. I remember it, though, not because I grew up with it--my folks slept regularly, my dad sitting in his chair, reading, and inevitably ending up with his chin on his chest and his (Sabbath approved) book or magazine slipping toward his knees. My mom unabashedly lay down and slept. I remember EGW's instruction because of Richard's family. Early in our marriage on occasion we would drive to visit Richard's parents on Sabbath after church. I was inevitably bone-weary, and after lunch I could no more keep my eyes open than jump over the moon. I finally realized (sometimes I'm slow on the uptake!) that his mom always woke me up about 30 minutes after I drifted off--just as I was fairly deeply asleep. Without exception I was awakened so we could all go on a "nature walk". I'll never forget those walks. I would be fighting sleep in the car as we drove wherever we would be walking, and when we got out I could hardly function for the first 15-30 minutes because I just hadn't yet awakened fully nor caught my "second wind" to carry me past my weariness. Here's the secret irony of those situations. In order to be able to wake up and have the energy to interact and function, I'd privately pop a couple of Excedrin (which I always made sure I had when we went there!)--the caffeine would finally kick in about 15 minutes into the walk. I finally asked Richard why his mom always woke me up after just falling asleep, and then he told me that Ellen had written that it was wrong to sleep away the Sabbath. Looking back, it was all so convoluted and controlling and counterproductive. Frist, because of our (much more permissive) attachment to Adventism, I didn't feel free to say "no" when my MIL "enforced" the true rules. Second, because of our attachment to Adventism and the superior authority of Ellen, it never occurred to either Richard or me that he should say anything to his mother about leaving me alone. Third, my privately ingesting caffeine was probably a greater infraction than sleeping an hour or an hour and a half would have been. First, it was clearly in violation of the "health message", and second, I was sneaking it. Fourth, when we were at home, we didn't follow that rule. I slept on Sabbath afternoon if I needed to--and I usually did! We would take our walks after I'd had time to get some sleep. It's horrifying as I gradually realize how deep the twisted beliefs of Adventism are. It truly take the new birth to begin to rewrite the "hard drive" of our consciences and minds after being programmed from infancy that God is not pleased with us if we sleep on Saturday or that we defile God's temple by ingesting caffeine or turkey or vinegar or even sugar. Wow! It's so good to be free! As Hebrews details, Jesus is better than everything! Colleen | ||
| Schasc Registered user Username: Schasc Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2004 |
Lindylou did you ever meet Murray Cooper while you were a SM? He was on Majuro from 80-81. Just thought you might have run into him when all the SM's got together at Christmas | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2651 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! Review and Gleaner, huh?! It's good to see you back, Lisa, and to hear that you are settling into a church where you are being nourished. I so agree with your assesment of Sabbath to and Advetist vs. Jesus. You said it so well. Colleen | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 268 Registered: 2-2001 |
I remember one time at campmeeting, on Sabbath, I ran into a girl I had not seen in some time. She asked me how I was doing, I don't remember what was wrong but I broke down and unloaded my heart on her. Her response was "Well, have a Happy Sabbath". I never felt so punched in the stomach as at that moment. I guess I was dragging her down on her Sabbath high and she thought I should not do so. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 659 Registered: 1-2003 |
Sabbath offers a false sense of security. Plus, it is the great dividing line in SDAism. The liberals (go out to eat, etc.) aren't good enough for the conservatives (everything prepared on Friday afternoon) and their kids can't play together on Sabbath because what they allow their kids to do (jump on a trampoline, swim) isn't what they allow their kids to do (can sit on a horse and walk it but no saddling or working up a sweat on him, no swimming, etc.). It's truly a tool used to make others feel guilty (working mom's who don't have Friday afternoon to prepare) while making others feel superior (those who have the time to be totally ready!!!)! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 660 Registered: 1-2003 |
Diana...if you were on a cruise, you might have missed the thanks for the little gift you sent to help...you know who! I know you wanted no thanks, but Thanks!!! | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 269 Registered: 2-2001 |
Pheeki, My husband, who was not raised SDA always wondered what was so bad about getting wet (swimming) verses ok to play at the park on the playground equipment or ride bikes. go figure | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 194 Registered: 2-2005 |
Freeatlast, re: your March Madness story... I have to admit that was one of my biggest temptations/problem areas as an SDA. I was forever sneaking peeks at sporting events when my family was partaking in Sabbath afternoon "lay activities" (code for napping in our family), especially around March Madness, Baseball playoffs, US Open, The Master's, etc. I guess it would have been taboo, in your case, to have watched the 11 pm SportsCenter on ESPN, too, since just about all of the highlights would have been from events that had taken place during Sabbath hours. Hmmm...I suppose that means it would have meant law-breatking to watch the summer Olympics when it was in Sydney on Sunday here, since it was actually taking place on Sabbath there (or do I have that backwards?)? That stuff would make your head spin if you let it but if in doubt all you had to do was ask yourself W.W.E.D.? Heretic (Message edited by Heretic on October 03, 2005) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2653 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! I love the humor, Heretic! Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 554 Registered: 7-2004 |
Lisa, It is SO VERY good to see you here. How is your sister? The news I hear from "back home" is that she is doing remarkably well. How are you holding up? You have been in my prayers. Any new happenings in regards to career and locations? I have lost your email address. I'd love to hear from you when you have time. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 855 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lisa, Good to see you back again. I work with a good friend of yours in the ER at our hospital. Mary is a great RN, and her story of coming out of Adventism is also very exciting. I also hope your sister is doing well. Stan | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1961 Registered: 11-2002 |
Sabbath afternoon mandated lay activity was interperted as laying on the couch sleeping the day away. I grew up believing that because Sabbath was a day of rest then Sabbath-keepers were mandated to rest on Sabbath and the word rest was interperted as sleep. Until right now I had no idea EGW said not to sleep the day away. In fact, I have had SDA kin tell me that to rest on Sabbath is another of God's health laws, just as not eating pork or not smoking or no using alcohol is. This is becaue God created people to needed a days rest, always between Friday night and Saturday night. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 661 Registered: 1-2003 |
This is what I was greeted with this morning from my SDA preacher brother! http://tibbsau.com/sabbath.html | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1088 Registered: 7-2003  |
Not to rant to the choir, but sites like this get under my skin. What is lacking is a mention of Romans 14, Col 2, Gal, ... Their "scripture" requires that Paul's presence in the synagogues on Saturdays meant he was "keeping" the sabbath, and though they say the reference in 1 Corinthians had nothing to do with worship, neither did the words in Exodus 20. It never ceases to amaze me how bits of scripture are pulled out of context and then an assumption is made to fit their specific need. Example: ------------- The Sabbath was established in the beginning. The children of Israel were instructed to keep it during their forty years in the wilderness. And to remember the Sabbath was written by the finger of YHVH Elohim. To transgress the Torah is to break any of the commands of Elohim; and to transgress the Torah is sin. Actually, sin is the sentence you have accepted when you decline to follow the instructions for life given by YHVH Elohim, for sin means to miss the mark and so not share in the prize. And what is the prize? To live forever in the place where Elohim lives. 1 John 2:7 is worth repeating once more: "Brothers, I do not write a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you had from (the) beginning. The old commandment is the Word which you heard from the beginning." What Word is John speaking about? The written Word, the Torah, the commandments of Elohim, given to His children, through Moses, to teach them how to obtain life. -------------- First question is how do you "hear" a written word? Sorry, rhetorical question... I guess that's all fine and good if you don't read scripture in its context. John 1:1 says IN THE BEGINNING was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God....Nothing about Torah there. But let's keep in the context of 1 John... 1Jo 2:8 Again I write a new commandment to you which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true Light already shines. 1Jo 2:9 The one claiming to be in the light, and hating his brother, is in the darkness until now. 1Jo 2:10 The one loving his brother rests in the light, and no offense is in him. Is it really a holy day that provides rest?? Is it sabbathkeeping that proves us Christians?? Something about love... 1Jo 3:1 See what manner of love the Father has given us, that we may be called children of God. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. But if you read on, it's point blank clear what he's talking about: 1Jo 3:23 And this is His commandment, that we should believe the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as He gave command to us. 1Jo 3:24 And the one keeping His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us. Is it not logical, then, that 1 John's "command" is talking about love?? Why are we promoting "lawlesssness" because we aren't promoting holy days? You can't read the NT in a vacuum. It all has to gel. Acts is not demonstrating the "keeping of the sabbath" as binding on Christians, while the epistles make it optional for one's conscience. Do you respond when you get such things, Pheeki? I think I'd just want to scream with all the errors so evident...and I'm not a "pastor". But B always reminds me, I just see what I want to see.... Very heavy sigh, as Colleen says... | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 662 Registered: 1-2003 |
I actually didn't even read it. Perhaps I should and then respond...It may make me puke. | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Dd and Riverfonz, My sister is a miracle alive. For those who don't know, she was in a terrible auto accident and broke her neck, her shoulder, collapsed both lungs, ruptured one, etc... This happened father's day. She is now walking, can use her right arm and hand, had to have shoulder surgery because they accidentally forgot her shoulder was broken when everything was critical at the beginning and were flipping her around on the bed, etc...so it healed wrong and they had to re-break the shoulder and pin it, etc... The pain was unbelievable for her, but she's on the mend now. The whole ordeal was terrible, but very healing for our family. Her husband is an SDA pastor you know. Going through that put us all back on a level playing felid, all mortal, all needing God, all a family. Not Adventist vers Non Adventist. When my sister was between death and life, on breathing machines and tubes throughout her body she remembers only two people out of the hundreds who came to visit her. Myself and one other person. I drove through 3 states praying that God's Spirit would go with me. I've never experienced such power in my life and I'm told it showed. So I think they are rethinking what this whole change for our family means. In any case, God is awesome, life is short and she is on the mend. We are hoping she will get the movement and strength back in her left arm and hand. If you want to pray for her, I'd much appreciate it. Dd, I'll email you or call. I'd love to talk. Riverfonz, I LOVE Mary. She's like an auntie to me. We do holidays, etc... together. She spoils my kids good as does her daughter and they adore her. Speaking of the Spirit filling someone, she knows what is means for God to become her everything all the time. She's been a wonderful example for me of a person who has left all bitterness behind toward the church, and has embraced the freedom in Christ to live out the truth and love. Are either of you or anyone else planning on attending the conference next spring for FAF's? Sometimes I think of myself as a Free Adventist. Anyway.... God Bless You! Lisa | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 858 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lisa, I agree with you about Mary. She has truly moved on from Adventism, and holds absolutely no bitterness. She is a great model to follow. I will be at the FAF reunion. I am praying for your sister also. Stan |
