| Author | Message | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 297 Registered: 1-2003  |
I have a question. What do others here feel about God allowing things to happen to wake us up and bring us back to Him. Do things like those that happened in Texas etc., happen to shake up a lukewarm world that they might turn and seek Him? If you have a chance please read the following and give me some feedback. Thanks ! ! http://www.injesus.com/Groups/ViewMessage.cfm?MessageId=VB0075EX&UCD=f70 In Christ, Richard You can also reply in email. rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2615 Registered: 12-2003  |
Richard, I believe that whether or not they happened in order to wake up a lukewarm world, God can and will use them for that purpose. Jesus foretold that disasters would increase, men's hearts would fail them for fear, and love would grow cold. I don't know that we can completely analyze WHY these things happen, but they should not be a complete surprise. All, however, are inside God's sovereign will, and He redeems everything we submit to Him. Colleen | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 201 Registered: 6-2001  |
That article brings us back to the seeker-sensitive issue. Should churches/sermons/books just be strict exegesis of the KJV, or should they be more topical, trying to shape the message of the Gospel to the need in the seeker's heart? With his condemnation of churches/sermons/books that don't refer enough to the word "cross" it is obvious which direction the author leans. To respond, I say look at the Gospels and look at the letters to the churches in the New Testament. The salvation messages in the Bible are tailored for whom they were written. Jesus spoke in word pictures and used the language of the common man. Gospel writers chose which parts of Jesus' life to use based on their audiences. The rest of the New Testament books reflect this as well. For instance Hebrews uses Old Testament rituals to explain salvation. Was this book written with Gentile Christians in mind? No. Other NT books use different ways to explain salvation, ways Gentiles can understand. Analogies like "adoption" and "servanthood" and "rescue." I find the article author's remarks about the absence of the word "cross" in seeker-sensitive Chrisitianity superficial in light of what I said above. Interestingly, many New Testament books also have no mention of the word "cross." Does the author of the article not read those either? The most prominent on the list would be the book of Romans, which most would agree is the book that goes most deeply into explaining the doctrine of salvation. People of this sort tend to irritate me a little bit. Their version of the Bible is the best. Their singing style is the best. Their preaching style is the best. And so on. I grew up in a legalistic church (nonadventist) and I was like this! What made me change? Being exposed to people who were not like me. Because of the nature of this board we all have examined what we thought was "the best" and disovered it was not so good after all. So should we find something new and call it "the best" or should we concede in some areas maybe there is no "best practice?" Obviously this is not meant to be an attack on you Richard, since I know you to be a very nonjudgemental person. Yet you are also very conservative, which I see as a dicotomy. Isn't it fun that we are all different!  Ecumenically, Hannah | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 298 Registered: 1-2003 |
Colleen, thanks for your comments. I rest assured that God will work out His plan in each of our lives. He will use the events that happen for His purpose and glory. It is only through God's grace and mercy that we are protected from the demonic forces of Satan. God is above all and in control, He is sovereign. I feel there may be times when God removes His protection and allows the enemy to show his true nature. It is all a mystery to me and I stand in awe at our GOD ! ! ! In Christ, Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 299 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hannah, wow, you mean my conservative nature shows. I have friends who consider me a liberal. <grin> Your right that in many things I'm conservative even if I may weep and be on my face on the floor in some worship services. I find it interesting what some see as conservative and some consider liberal. To many any kind of emotional service is "liberal" and to be suspect. My worship style is definitely not on the traditional side but neither do I pogo down the ailes at church. Those who have been to some churches will know what I mean by pogoing. In worship I can tune things out and it's just me and my Savior. I even do that when I'm at a Jewish service. It's just me and Him worshiping together. I know that with me God has done things to get me out of the shell of needing to look like I'm in control. I try to be careful what I pray for. God has this habit of giving me what I ask for. When you ask for humility, be careful, He might put you in situations where you look very foolish in the eyes of many to help you look to HIM and not yourself. I've prayed that God might control my life and He has manifested in physical ways where I've had to just look to Him and say Lord have your way. He knows this is an area I need healing in. Coming from an SDA background were "image" and how you look to others is everything can be a little scary when He says I'm in control and I want to totally take over your life. I'm not sure I'm making any sense and words are failing me right now. In Christ, Richard rtruitt@mac.com PS: I know I sometimes get into my "rambling mode" at time. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 303 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hannah I just went back and reread what you said. "Richard, since I know you to be a very nonjudgemental person. Yet you are also very conservative, which I see as a dicotomy" Do you mean I can't be both? Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 203 Registered: 6-2001 |
Unfortunately, when I think conservative I think of the fellow who wrote the article you linked to. He is both conservative and judgmental. But if you like worship flags, you can't be that conservative. Sweetly, Hannah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2621 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hannah, I know I've told you before, but I love your "ly" closings. They always make me smile--sometimes even outright laugh! Thanks! Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 841 Registered: 3-2005 |
Richard, Thanks for posting that site above. I haven't had a chance to review it much yet, but of course, in light of our recent discussion on the Purpose Driven Life, I was interested in what that site had to say about the continued concern about the fruit of the PDL movement now leading more to the gospel of self esteem. Remember that Robert Schuller, the high priest of self esteem started this whole Purpose Driven movement by donating a lot of time and money to help Rick Warren and Bill Hybels get their churches started. John MacArthur this last week talked about the need for more Bible driven churches than purpose driven churches. The author Greg Austin of that web site you posted above talked about Spirit-led rather than purpose driven. What do you think Richard? | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 133 Registered: 3-2005 |
The purpose in PDL is that we are created for GOD'S PURPOSE. It's all about being made for GOD'S PLEASURE. Everything we do is to GLORIFY GOD. I don't see how that can be other than being "Spirit-led" and "Bible driven". If our "self-esteem" is due to being used by God for His purposes, than that is the kind of self-esteem I want. I can only be truly happy when living a life doing God's will. Maybe the PDL Program can be mis-used, or construed differently when used by those who are not truly wishing to learn GOD'S PURPOSE for their lives. But I think if it is used as it was intended, it will bring a better understanding of what a Spirit-filled life is all about. Just my two cents worth! -tisha | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 204 Registered: 6-2001 |
I agree Tisha, and thank you Colleen! Shortly, Hannah | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 845 Registered: 3-2005 |
Tisha, I agree with how you stated your post above. I have nothing personal against Rick Warren, and I believe he is a Christian based on his published belief statements. I read portions of PDL yesterday while I was in a grocery store, and if you take the opening statements at face value, you have stated the book's purpose correctly. The book is not heresy. There are legitimate concerns about context and use of paraphrases, and his rather simplistic statement about what the gospel is that has some people concerned. But this book would not be controversial EXCEPT that this is the book 1000's of churches have used in place of the Bible as an evangelistic tool, and as sponsored PDL book studies weeks on end, rather than Bible study. It is when a man's book, a man who has the whole global communities' attention now with Warren's work in Rwanda, gets such center stage attention, and endorsed by most famous evangelical leaders, without even questioning his use of scripture, that, then, the Berean spirit needs to at least investigate and scrutinize this pastor of the world's largest church. There can be a group-think mentality to follow someone without questioning. I have lived in Orange county Calif. where both the ministries of Robert Schuller and Rick Warren have flourished. There are very few evangelicals now who have any respect for Schuller, because of where his false gospel of self-esteem has led. Mr. Warren, has, to his credit publicly disavowed any allegiance to Schuller, even though Schuller helped his ministry get started. However, serious questions were raised about this dis-association from Schuller when in Mar. 2005, Mr. Warren wrote a column for "Ladies Home Journal" in which he declared to largely an unbelieving audience that God loves you unconditionally, and that you need to love yourselves more. Now, this might even be acceptable to a secular audience except for the fact that he did not mention that the only way to become loved unconditionally by God is to accept the wonderful sacrifice God has provided in Christ on the cross. He could have stated the Biblical way to have self-esteem is to let Christ work in your lives. But he did not mention this Bible remedy in his column. Is there a reason to be politically correct, and to act ashamed of the gospel in the public square, where you are given an opportunity to be a light? Or, are those who have written columns on the web about this just being too judgmental. If you are interested in reading a link to an article that was written about this, then go to the recent PDL thread where a link was posted on this. So, in summary, I agree that Mr Warren has been a blessing and a great help to many. Many have come to Christ thru PDL, and for that I praise God. All I am saying, is what I would say about any Christian leader,(and that includes all the authors I read and like) that we have to be ever watchful, and not blindly follow or defend a leader, when what they say in the public square is unbiblical. We have probably exhausted this topic, but it always keeps coming up very frequently. Stan |
