| Author | Message | ||
| Marcell Registered user Username: Marcell Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2004 |
I am reeling, even though I thought I was prepared. I answered an email from a relative who was offering us some SDA book (again). I think they know we do not attend anymore, but apparently now think we are 'unchurched' or somehting. (the big clue is probably that I wear jewlery ;-)) I felt I should respond boldly, state the truth of our position, affirm this person's value to me, etc. I said that we did not want any more SDA materials, that EGW is not of God, etc. I ALSO made it very clear that I felt this person loves the Lord and is a very wonderful and Christ like person, that I love them very much and condider them a brother/sister in Christ. I stressed how much in love I am with Jesus, how convicted I am of His love and grace for me, how I am more 'constrained' now than I ever was under the law...I could go on but you get the drift. I got back a card today. It stated that they were disturbed by my 'current spiritual persuasion' and that the text they wanted to share was Luke 27:31,32. The one where Jesus says Satan wants Peter, but when he is converted he should strengthen the bretheren. Ok. Maybe I should have expected that. I was maybe more how should I say, direct, than I could have been. But this person has always been so gentle and kind, I really thought that maybe they would accept that I still love Jesus even if I don't agree with their beliefs. I affirmed that THEY love the Lord even though they don't agree with MY beliefs. I didn't expect them to agree with me, or anything like it. However, I am frankly shocked that their reply was so hurtful. I guess the 'mask' is off? The verse that came to me was "By their fruit you will know them." Pretty rotten fruit. I know, I know, I know, you all warned me!!!! But can you help anyway? Stinging | ||
| Taybie Registered user Username: Taybie Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hi Marcell, I received the same kind of responses you did when I finally confirmed that I was in fact no longer and SDA and leaving the church. I was called a heretic and told that I would burn in hell by someone I consider a brother. What I took into consideration was that because I was so close to this person, that my actions, (leaving ellen and sda) was not only shocking to them, but frightening. After all, we shared many like beliefs and if I left, then the possibility of them leaving woulf be trhe same? Chalk it up as fear and a very controlled mind. I know that is not much, but that's what it came down to for me. Change is uncomfortable for any of us, young and old alike. And if you and I are walking side by side, and then you turn and say that "That's the wrong way" but I think differently, my mind would resort to fear...of being wrong all this time, the unknown, etc. Just my pennies. Shontay | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 274 Registered: 8-2004 |
Marcell, You remind me of me. The SDA I told was one I'd studied things out with before and was used to thinking of as tolerant and open minded. The reaction I received was anything but! Praying that God will comfort your heart even as you reel, and that He will get glory from all that happens! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 822 Registered: 3-2005 |
Marcell, The more I deal with those still in Adventism, the more I realize that we are dealing with people who believe another gospel, with EGW as their other authority. There is a veil over their eyes as 2 Cor. 3 clearly states. I will be praying for your situation. Thanks for sharing. Stan | ||
| Insideoutsider Registered user Username: Insideoutsider Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2002 |
Marcell, I was just about to post that they were veiled, then saw Stan had already posted it well. Don't be surprised if it happens again as you continue to dialog with old friends. It gets easier to deal with as time goes on and you become stronger in your beliefs. I will be praying God's comfort for you. Jan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2568 Registered: 12-2003  |
Marcell, I completely second everything posted above. They are veiled; when someone leaves the group, fear kicks in, and the responses of people you always knew to be warm and accepting become completely cutting. I often have to remember that Jesus said He did not come to bring peace to the world but a sword; He Himself becomes the division between parents and children, friends, siblings. Jesus polarizes the closest relationships when they are not equally founded in Him. If the issue were knowledge or doctrines, there could be endless intellectual sparring without polarization. When the issue becomes loyalty to Jesus, however, people either respond or recoil. I will also pray for God to comfort you. Colleen | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 277 Registered: 1-2003  |
Marcell, my heart goes out to you as I read of the reactions some have had to your decision. As some of you know I'm still a member of the SDA church but my heart aches for you and the pain you must be feeling. God is holding you in His ever loving hands and will not turn you loose. He will honor your decision to follow Him in all you do. I think some of their reaction might be from fear and confusion. Your leaving has shaken their world and how the relationship between the two of you has changed. I'm sure it also brings up a fear and concern (maybe unconscious) about their own beliefs, particularly if they were close to you. I hope you can still love them and lift them up in prayer and quietly and patiently be there with them. When things like this hurt me I remember my Savior suffered the ultimate rejection when He died on the cross. In Christ, Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Another_carol Registered user Username: Another_carol Post Number: 271 Registered: 12-2002 |
Since there is no verse such as Luke 27:31,32, could someone please share what the verse actually is. I am very interested in the verses that SDA use to prove their points. The only scripture involving Jesus rebuking Peter and ordering satan to get thee behind him is in Matthew 16: 23 but I think you are speaking of another. I am sorry for your pain and understand it. I pray God's strength for you to withstand what looks like the truth but is error when interpreted thru the Spirit. Thank you for checking on this verse for me. Carol | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1866 Registered: 3-2004  |
Another-carol, You are correct, there is no Luke 27:31,32 and I cannot find, at this moment, where that text is. I have had no repercussions from family about leaving the SDA church so I cannot fully understand what is happening to you, but I can pray for you and and your loved ones. I have put you on my prayer list. Keep close to God, read and study the Bible and God will provide brothers and sisters you do not know exist at this time. He is holding you in His AWESOME arms right now. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1867 Registered: 3-2004 |
Marcell, I adressed part of the above to Carol and meant the rest for you. Diana | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hang in there Marcell. It is a devastating thing for people, who believe that their worst persecutors in the time of trouble will be their "former brethren," to see you become a former. They are very likely in a daze and feeling quite numb about it, but they have the words of the prophetess to guide and comfort them. You, on the other hand, have the words of Jesus himself to guide and comfort you. Hang in there. You are not alone. | ||
| Jan Registered user Username: Jan Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2005 |
Marcell: I have been on the side of your relatives when we had family members leave years ago. I repent of that now, but I so understand their reaction. At the right time, in the right place, God reveals Himself. Remember the story of the Saul/Paul, who had to be knocked down and blinded! Just live in the "anticipation" of what God through the Holy Spirit will do in the lives of your loved ones. And fret not! If He could get through to me, He can get through to anyone! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1918 Registered: 11-2002 |
Marcell, My thoughts and prayers go out to you. As I've saisd on this forum numerous times it is not the corny doctrines of the SDA church that lead me to think of it as a cult so much as it is the emotional hold on it's devotees. For several years my elderly SDA mother knew I attended a local Lutheran church each week. Every few weeks she would ask me if I was a member of the Lutheran church. I would always answer "no". She'd seem releived and the conversation would move on to another topic. Then finily after several years of this she asked the question I came to dread and I answered "yes".The explosion hit. In total yelling a question was shouted as me, "So, are you taking classes in persucation the commandment keepers in the last days?" I was appalled to say the least. I mumbled something about Lutherans being Christians and they wouldn't want to persucate anyone, let alone fellow Christians. I went home crying and didn't go back to her house for a good two weeks. In SDA lingo the term "commandment keeper" referrs to only SDA's becausae of the Sabbath commandment. To me it is that mind set that qualifies the SDA organization as a cult. My heart goes out to you in dealing with your relatives. | ||
| Marcell Registered user Username: Marcell Post Number: 54 Registered: 4-2004 |
I just returned home from a class at my church (baptist, sorta) and was so very blessed to have all these responses - God is so awesome!!! It is so great to actually be part of the BODY of CHRIST! Sorry about the typo, the text is Luke 22:31,32 "Simon..Satan has asked to have all of you, to sift you like wheat. But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen and build up your brothers." (!) In other words, even though I spoke of my great love for Jesus, now I have turned from Him because I don't believe in Ellen and SDA's. I'm feeling bad because what that message was is a judgement of me - and I don't feel bad because I believe it, but because judging someone in such a direct manner is a serious sin that Jesus warns pretty strongly about. Now I'm feelining that maybe I caused this person to 'stumble' and judge and should have been more careful or just kept quiet. After all, they didn't ask me directly about it and sure didn't ask me to speak into their lives. Nevertheless, this person is in their 80's and I have no idea if I will have any more chances to see them. I just felt moved to be bold in that moment, and now I am questioning myself. But, too late. I guess I'll have to learn the hard way!! | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 198 Registered: 3-2005 |
Marcell: Never, ever regret sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You shared your love for Him. We will/can never do it perfectly. It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict. I second the many posts above...it is fear, pain, regret (what have THEY done wrong to allow this to happen to you), pride...alot of pride. I firmly believe that SDAs are SO sure they're right, that any idea or decision to the contrary leaves them reeling. After all how could they be so right and have others decide differently? I do not say this condemningly; I have once been in the place where your relative is. I laugh now at the absurdity, but I once remember being overwraught because a whole SDA church in Berthoud, CO went to Sundaykeeping! (I live in Denver). Now...I wish they were closer so I could attend!  Mary is right. God will speak to them in His time. Marcell, my prayers are with you. Hang onto the Joy you have found in Jesus. Patria | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2571 Registered: 12-2003 |
Marcell, Patria is right. Your speaking of your faith in Jesus did not cause anyone to stumble in a true walk of faith. It may have caused them to stumble against the Stumbling Stone, but not from Jesus. Sometimes God allows us to be severely shaken so we will put down roots in Him. Praying for you, Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 671 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, Colleen, well spoken. Marcell, you should have no guilt, you spoke only of your love for Jesus, and were able to back it up by a beautiful quote that should add strength and understanding to what you have said for any other believer. The person you care so much for also cares a great deal for you. That person is now in the position of making a realization about what he/she believes. This may be a moment of true awakening, and that is a blessing. | ||
| Another_carol Registered user Username: Another_carol Post Number: 272 Registered: 12-2002 |
Marcell, thanks for the clarification on the verse. I was sure it was a typo and that is why I aksed for the correct verse. I think this verse is very important if read as it stands. Jesus prayed for him that his faith would not fail. For me that is the same as Jesus dying for the sins that we all committ big or small of which will not allow us in the presence of a Perfect God. It is all about what He does and the only thing left for us to do is accept what in fact He did. I would like to say also that you should not concern yourself with "if" you did the right thing but rather pray God would see you thru whatever is to come and accept His preperation for whatever you might need in the future. As I had a situtation at work in the last year my supervisor gave me this: If God brings you to it, He will bring you thru it. I speak this from experience because you see I was at the same point as you and said something that changed the course of my daughter and son-in-law's marriage. It took many years for this to happen but I still say to myself: "If only you had kept your mouth shut." But then God reminds me that because I told my daughter to be sure she knew what she believed I am sure of her salvation. I claim Romans 8:28 for it: All things work together for good to them that love the Lord and are called according to His Purpose. His Purpose is that none should perish and sometimes tough bold faced confrontation is what is needed. I know that for myself it took me totally out of my comfort zone of non-confrontation but I also know that it was something that was orchestrated by God. He works in marvelous and mysterious ways His wonders to preform. That understanding came for me in 2003 when I finally surrendared to His obdeience by reading the Bible thru in a year. God had impressed this on me some 10 years previous and I just kept putting it off. One day as I work at a book store as janitor I found a Bible thru in a Year thrown away and I said "Yes Lord, now I will." I found several things in the Bible that I had not known were there such as God hardening the heart of Pharoah. When I first came upon this I could not beleive what I was reading. This just cannot be. God would not harden a heart. But that is what the words said: 21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. But instead of getting discouraged or looking to some other commentary or asking anyone about it I kept reading and several days later the answer came: Exodus 11 9 The LORD had said to Moses, "Pharaoh will refuse to listen to youóso that my wonders may be multiplied in Egypt." 10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country. I do not preceive to understand the workings of God but I do believe that He does use all things for His good and just like Abraham gives us commands which are completly out of our understanding. If you know the voice of the Shepherd then there is nothing to fear. There is no way that we can hear the voice of the Shepherd when/if we cling to the old which was to lead us to Christ. May God be with you, Carol | ||
| Marcell Registered user Username: Marcell Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thanks Carol. Acutally the Luke verse is the one my relative quoted to me. In other words, he was telling me that I was not yet converted. And that when I TURN BACK (to the SDA church, I suppose) then I will strengthen my brethren. I was a little disturbed that he would presume to quote the Lord to condemn me and in so doing say I was not a sister in Christ. I guess that showed me the true spirit behind the mask, the ravenous wolf that is the spirit of legalism behind the demure behavior. That was the most shocking thing - this person was always someone who I believed was practically ready to be translated!!! Shows how much our denial can be in place, I guess. I am pretty confident of my discernment most of the time, but I had revered this person all my life, so I couldn't see it. ouch. | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2005 |
Marcell, these posts by the members of the forum are saturated with love, caring concern and suggests each one is reaching out to encourage and strengthen you. May I join them? I think we all can say of your experience and those so similar, "Been there done (or experienced) that." And so it is. Although it is a very long thread, spanning hundreds of years, Ps 119:75 links with Rom 8:26-28. By the way, the key thought of verses 26, 27 should not end but tie in with verse 28, which usually is shown as a new thought. The KJV actually uses the correct translated word in Ps. 119:75 when it says "judgements" rather than "laws" as other translations have it, even my NIV. Keep God's "judgments" in mind as you read the painful (to we humans) last part of the verse: "and in faithfulness you have afflicted me." Jesus placed a blessing upon all who are "persecuted for righteousness" (Mt 5:10). God in His Omniscience allows us to be afflicted in many ways, but here our thoughts are: suffering for the cause of the true Gospel, i.e., specifically for the cause of Jesus Christ, "The Truth" Himself! The greatest pain comes from those closest to us. I still feel great pain whenever I allow my self to pull up the memory film of my own experience and review the rejection and cruel treatment by those I considered not only Christians, but my good personal friends. NOT! Years ago Robert Brinsmead used a phrase that, may offend the sensitive persons in our midst, but for me it shouts volumes of truth. He said the churches position in practice seems to be: "To hell with people. We must uphold the truth." What they call truth, of course, which we now know is not the truth as it IS in Jesus. Loyalty to the organization, the gang, the club, the group, the political party, - you name it - that loyalty all too often supersedes all other considerations, including friendships. Another member of this forum has parents who now do not communicate with her. Blindly they are convinced they are upholding truth in some sick way. In kindness and true knowledge, we all now know it is because they are blinded by deception. A sincere belief, no doubt, but a sincerity so wrongly placed. This is called Moral Relativism: Belief in what you believe and want to believe regardless of evidence to the contrary. But for our own edification, the Word of God warns us to "stop trusting in man,..." Isa 2:22; Ps. 146:3; Jer 7:4. So there is a lesson in this for each of us when our confidence in those we trusted is misplaced or destroyed. Remember Ps. 119:75. Remember God's judgment in this situation is right. He remains faithful to you, as you suffer these afflictions. Turn your heart ache, your disappointment, disollusionment and the sting of being coldly mis-judged, but judged never-the-less, by others who know not to love because of false duty to a set of beliefs; turn it all into rejoicing for being counted worthy to suffer for the name and cause of Christ. Your reward awaits you. And when we see each other dancing on the streets of gold, we will know it has been worth all the pain of rejection. Just so God is glorified. And He will be by your firm faith and steadfast faith-union with Him through His Son, Jesus Christ. I wish you strong spiritual bones as you grow through this stress and pain. Soli Deo Gloria Jess |
