| Author |
Message |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 279
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 4:33 pm: |     |
 Jess, your reference to "'the truth' above people'" is an apt one. Just had a thought though, as we get to know God, we find out that He IS the Truth, and that Truth in some sense IS a person!
I'm so glad that He welcomes us to relationship with Him!
Mary |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 63
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 6:27 pm: | |
Marcell, Sorry to hear of your experience. And I am praying for peace for you.
Let me share an experience from the other side...
A couple of years ago I was in a deep conversation with a dear christian non-SDA friend who I respected, loved, and considered my spiritual mentor. She was an awesome example of the love of the Father in action. She sheparded me through a very difficult period of my life. She gave love, time, energy, support, and prayers to me and my family, for over a year.
During our conversation about end times, She exclaimed in a shocked manner, "are you really saying that you believe that I would persecute you for keeping the sabbath?????
I explained that yes, I believed that Sunday Keepers would persecute "us". I went on to explain that I believed that those who honestly were seeking the truth would be conviced of the sabbath, and since I knew she was a sincere Christian, I believed that she would honestly follow God's leading, and thus, we would be in the same position... Our friendship was never the same after that.
At that time, I did not believe I was hanging onto doctrine or tradition or even "truth". I had already disregarded EGW. I believed I was hanging onto Jesus, and the prophecy set forth via John in Revelation. I was convinced that I needed to share this message to others when God set up the opportunity, even though I hated doing it. I didnt "like" the idea of the Remnant Church being sabbath keepers only, I didnt "like" the idea that other apparently sincere Christians would be lost. But God said it in scripture, "those who keep the commandments of GOD..." which I was convinced was the stone commandments, and therefore since God said it, it had to be true. (Much the same as the fact that now I dont "like" the idea of eternal hell, and cant understand it, but since the Bible says it, It has to be true.) (I am less dogmatic these days about ultimate truth).
I dont believe my reaction was out of fear or uncertainty regarding my own beliefs. It was out of love for a dear friend that I did not want to see Lost! I was ready to die for Christ if His commands (which I believed included the sabbath) were in conflict with the "beasts" decree regarding Sunday (idol) worship, or any other commandment. I was not afraid of end times, I knew God would protect me much like he did Stephen when he was martyred.
I say this to you in hopes that perhaps you will consider that their responses may not spring from a Lack of love for you, but Because of their great love FOR you. They are probably truly scared that you will be lost forever. They are likely motivated by a desire to bring you back to the flock of Christ!! I sincerely believed others were the ones with the "veil". They are likely praying for your veil to be removed...
Im not supporting the way they handled the situation and hurt you. But I understand their desperation. Perhaps they truly do love you.
And if it helps, then you should know that I have since questioned my own beliefs, and my understanding of God and his Word is changing daily. I hate the way I hurt certain people, and I'm gonna have to copy this post to my friend!
Today I am free in Christ, and like you said, I'm more joyfully "constrained" than when I was under the law! Christ's words are being written in my heart, and changes are occurring. Praise God! I will keep you in my prayers, and will need to ask for yours when I am led by God to speak to my family.
JavaGirl |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2588
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 11:04 pm: | |
JavaGirl, thanks for telling us your story. Great insight.
Prayers for you continue!
Colleen |
Jwd
Registered user
Username: Jwd
Post Number: 106
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 11:44 am: | |
Oh Mary, I could not agree more. "Truth" to probably the majority of SADventists is the same thing as "the message" and that centers on those beasts and church standards, rather than upon what we have discovered IS INDEED a Person!
"I AM the TRUTH...." said His Majesty.
I think of this everytime I write about truth and truths. I also have switched - most of the time - to using the identity: "the authentic Gospel" rather than the "true Gospel." For me it gives a little more fine tweeking of the reception dial, as it applies to Adventists.
So maybe with "truth" perhaps a better choice would be "teachings." I'll be giving that some thought.
Thanks for focusing again upon this. But I could not agree with you more, Mary. And praise God FOR it, eh? :c)
Jess |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2591
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 4:36 pm: | |
Jess, just to piggy-back on your comments above--I've been more and more seeing "truth" as being very closely related to "reality". The Holy Spirit is the only power we have able to keep us grounded in reality instead of in our self-denial, deception, avoidance, etc. When we are not in reality, we are not operating our lives in Truth.
When Jesus said the truth would set us free, I believe He meant that in every sense of the word: spiritual first of all, which then informs our emotional, psychological, and physical reality/truith.
I believe that people who know Jesus and are born again really are the only people (talk about an "exclusive" statement coming up!) who have real insight into reality and truth. Jesus doesn't let us wallow in our own denial. He confronts us with the unresolved situations in our lives and gently leads us to own them and to deal honestly with them. Without the Holy Spirit, we would have no ability to approach this kind of honesty and knowing.
I once heard a remarkable clinical psychologist say that people who break from sincerity ultimately break from reality. This same person also said he believed that if one were to conduct long-term personality studies, one would find that people who are authentic Christians would, over a period of time, score increasingly "better"--more nearly normal--on personality inventories. Unlike people who remain dead in their sins, he theorized, the born-again would become increasingly like the perfect emotional and spiritual and psychological model that Jesus was.
This man was actually preparing to do clinical research of his theory when he died an untimely death of a heart attack at the age of 56. I've often pondered his theory over the ensuing 20 or so years since I heard him say that.
Colleen |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 422
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 4:47 pm: | |
Amen. Truth far transcends what is merely true or false in fact. Watch:
True: I stole a candy bar when I was a kid. I asked forgiveness and got it. I don't want to steal any more candy bars.
Truth: I am a desperately wicked man, in which no good thing dwells. Because I was sold into sin, God sent His only Son to pay the penalty which I would otherwise owe forever with no means to pay. His payment redeemed me from slavery to sin and placed me instead under bondage to the Son of God eternal. Such slavery is really freedom reaching its fullest potential.
See the difference?
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2595
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 6:32 pm: | |
Great iillustration, Freeatlast!
Colleen |
Marcell
Registered user
Username: Marcell
Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 11:39 am: | |
I have no doubt that my relative believes he is acting out of love and concern. I even epxlained in my original note that I totally expected and understood the mindset through which my communication would be recieved, which is what made it all the more difficult to share. But, I said, 'I would obey God rather than man', and that whoever does not love God more than mother and father, etc. is not worthy.
So really, I guess I am a prophet. hehe. The reaction did indeed line up with what I predicted would occur.
I really have mostly just felt so very sorry for them, it's like trying to show a sunset to a blind person. Or explain Mozart to a deaf person.
Actually, I have been filled with joy after the initial hurt wore off, which was about 12 hours.
Remember that little song in the Wizard of Oz when they are going toward the Emerald City after waking up from the poppy induced sleep - 'step out of the dark step into the light'? Sounds silly, but that's about how I feel. >>grin<< |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2597
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 11:53 am: | |
Marcell, I completely relate to your euphoria on this end of the ordeal. There is such freedom and congruity and peace when one acts in truth in a situation where compromise would be easy or expected. Jesus confirms Himself when we declare Him.
Colleen |
Weimarred
Registered user
Username: Weimarred
Post Number: 75
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 10:44 pm: | |
Colleen, you mentioned "I once heard a remarkable clinical psychologist say that people who break from sincerity ultimately break from reality."
Sounds like Hal in Space Odyssey 2000!
Seriously, though, when I was acting in addictive behavior, I hurt so many around me. I still felt love for those close to me, and empathy for all, or at least I thought I did. At a certain point, I finally woke up and said, ìIím so full of it! Iím making decisions, on a daily basis, that are hurtful to those that I care the most about.î I was through deluding myself that I was ìsincereî.
Now I make decisions, or at least I honestly try to make decisions that wonít harm others.
My point is, I think you can be insincere while honestly believing that youíre sincere. Some of us will reach a low point, and finally wake up to the bull that weíre feeding ourselves. But Iím convinced that many will never see this; somehow theyíre tragically too far ìaround the bendî.
On the other hand, when I come across someone who is acting like this (a particular relative comes to mind), itís hard for me not to think to myself, ìOh come on! You know youíre full of bull!î Then I have to remind myself that hey, not so long ago, I was wandering around in the same dark maze of rationalization, and though I hate to admit it, I might never have come out of it!
Tom
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Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 285
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 11:13 pm: | |
Well said Weimarred!
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2606
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:55 am: | |
You're right, Tom.
Colleen |
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