| Author |
Message |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 801
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |     |
Jackob,
Thanks for expressing those thoughts and fears so well. May God continue to reveal His wonderful truth to you. As Ric pointed out, grace is so hard for many Christians-not just SDAs- to accept. In the book of Ephesians, especially chapters 1 and 2, we are reminded that we were chosen by the Father in Christ before the foundation of the world, and are sealed for the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit. I was most overwhelmed by this thought when I was in the car yesterday driving out to our FAF Bible study, and I was listening to a CD of hymns performed by the London Orchestra and chorus, and the first hymn on that CD was "Holy Holy Holy" "God in three persons, blessed Trinity". I thought, wow, the Triune God guaranteed and secured our salvation in eternity past, and according to Romans 8, there is absolutely nothing (not even guilt from our past) that can separate us from the love of God. Praise God indeed!
Soli Deo Gloria!
Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 802
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 3:47 pm: | |
Hi Jackob,
Thanks for expressing your thoughts and fears so well. May God continue to reveal truth to you as He is already doing. As Ric mentioned, many Christians (not just SDAs) have a problem with the grace of God. Human nature says it is so illogical. Ephesians 1 says that we were chosen by the Father in Jesus in eternity past. It also says the Holy Spirit has sealed us for the day of redemption, guaranteeing our salvation. What a marvelous truth! The Triune God has secured and guaranteed our eternal redemption. Romans 8 says that there is absolutely nothing (not even guilt from our past heaped upon us by our legalistic upbringing) that can separate us from the love of God and eternal salvation. I will continue to pray for you Jackob.
Stan |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 190
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 6:50 pm: | |
Jackob:
You are in my prayers. I ache with you becaue I too understand the question about whether God really loves me or not. One of my favorite, favorite, favorite passages is Romans 8:38-39:
"38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
I take solace in the knowledge that God loves me so much...even if my heart can't comprehend it. Truly, I don't think we will EVER be able to fully comprehend His love...not even in eternity.
Jackob: Thank you for sharing so openly. I think so many of us can relate to these feelings of loss and loneliness. Again, you are in my prayers.
Patria
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Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 806
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 7:57 pm: | |
I did not intend the double post above. Something real strange happened during the first posting, indicating that it was lost. Oh well...I have no idea what happened.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2560
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 11:24 pm: | |
Jackob, Iunderstand the conflict you're describing between your head and your feelings. It's quite normal to question God's love and acceptance when we have a parent who never truly loved us.
I will keep praying Ephesians 1:17-19 for you.
Colleen |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 8:26 am: | |
Colleen, if it was so easy to say that my parent never truly love me. Because so many told me that she was just human, and what can I pretend from her? It's something they always judge me for this. They try to put me on a guilt trip.
What makes me very thankful for your prayers is because your prayers receive answers. Somehow God clings to me in spite of my weakness, and gives me hope, peace, and assurance of His love. This is what it happens in the past days, as soon as you oferred to pray for me. Thanks Javagirl, Stan, Patria, Colleen, for you made for me a shield of protection from assaults from the devil one. In the past time was also a intensified spiritual battle, thoughts of giving up God, anger toward Him for allowing me to be so trapped in adventism and be fooled. I caried a battle with the thought that God is also a lie as EGW and adventism. Thanks God that, even if I failed in some moments and accused God of being unjust and a liar, His promises never but lies, He clings to me and reveal His desire to be reconciled with Him.
Jackob
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Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 269
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 8:47 am: | |
Jackob,
For me I was not able to 'give up' Adventism. But I did pray that if it was not from God that God would take it from me - and He did. It was a shock to open my eyes from that prayer and find that I was no longer an Adventist. Of course I didn't resign from the church (in my case the SDA Reform Movement) till several months later, but God very clearly 'took' Adventism from me.
That left me a bit humbled as well as grateful. It meant I was not able to claim "look what I did! I left SDAism!"
Oh, and don't be afraid to ask God to be more real to you than your circumstances! One verse I've clung to when my heart tells me that God doesn't really love me and hasn't accepted me is, "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, GOD IS GREATER THAN OUR HEART, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." 1 John 3:19-21
Praying for you also!
Blessings,
Mary
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Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 669
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 1:22 pm: | |
Jackob, I, too, will add my prayers for you to those of my dear friends on this site. My exposure to these people has helped to strengthen me in so many ways, and I pray that God will strengthen you in just the manner that is necessary for you to complete the work He has intended for you. This is not to say that you must work for your salvation, because that is assured through the blood of Jesus Christ and is not dependent upon anything you or I, or any other human can, has, or will do.
My mother, too, was wedded to her Adventist beliefs and was quick to judge, slow to forgive. She had the ability to love and would sometimes surprise me with her ability to reach out to others from time to time. That did not change the fact that my siblings and I came to know what we could and could not share with her based on what her standard response to us would be. She believed that she had to turn her back on sin, and frequently turned her back on those she felt were sinful. I praise God that He has turned His back on sin, but only after He removed the sting of death from it. Jesus loves us so completely that He can make up for any loss or absense of love we might have in other aspects of our lives. May God generously bless you and wrap you in a certain knowledge of His love for you!
Belva |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1862
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 3:17 pm: | |
Dear Jackob,
I have put your name in my prayer list.
I can so emphathise with you and your feelings about your Mother. I learned to love my mother through my 12 step program and learned that she was only doing what she knew. She could not do more than that. God led me to that program and then kept on leading me back to church, SDA, then out of the SDA church right into His AWESOME ARMS and I rest there at this time. Keep on praying and reading and studying your Bible and God will lead you where He wants you. It is quite an adventure.
You see, God is so awesome in all He does.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1915
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 6:20 pm: | |
Is this the topic heading for what I want to lament on? I hope so. Anyway, does a born and raised SDA ever get over the food hang-ups? I'll share an example from several days ago. My son brought me a to-go container with six wonton in it. He'd already eaten several and they were so good, home-made and he wanted to share them with me. He'd done a kind deed for the Chinese lady in the neighborhood and she thanked him with a lot of homemade wonton. He told me, "Mom, try these. They are the best wonton I've ever had. I think you'll like them." Immediatelly I said, "Do they have meat in them?" He said,"uhh-huuah." I said, "What kind of meat?" He said, "How the hell should I know. I didn't ask. Mom she's a real nice lady and she wanted to be kind to me for being kind to her. Get over your hang-ups about always asking what kind of meat is in stuff. I read my Bible. It says to accept a gift of food without asking what it is and to be gracious and thankful. So either you can eat these or you don't get no dinner tonight." I ate the wonton, all six and whoa! they were the best wonton I've ever had and I hope I can get more someday but really, will I ever get over my SDA upbringing about food? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2563
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 9:03 pm: | |
Susan, I believe those food aversions are only "fixable" through a decision to want to be done with them and through surrendering them to God.
Our pastor's wife actually challenged Richad with his aversion to meat and said she would hold him accountable to begin eating it. He has begun to pray that he will be able to eat meat without being "grossed out", and he has been regularly eating some every week. He told me his goal is to be able to eat it whenever it is being served.
As Elizabeth says, it is a choice to hold onto one's aversion. We have to be willing to do what we don't want to and to surrender it to God. We may never get over thinking twice before eating, but I believe that through the Holy Spirit's power we can overcome the aversion that keeps us "fearing" it and feeling as if it is not food.
Colleen |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 195
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 9:03 pm: | |
Susan_2:
LOL! Leave it to kids to say it how it is. I wish I could help. I still have the hang ups too, though I'm 'right proud' of myself for being a regular chicken eater nowadays.
Patria |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1869
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 6:47 pm: | |
I eat chicken more and have also started on pork and crab cakes. Colleen, your friend is correct. It is a conscious decision to not eat pork and other "forbidden" foods. I am getting used to eating what ever is fixed without questioning about what it is. Thank you God, You are awesome.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1919
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 8:18 pm: | |
I grew up eating the clean meats. Actually for you city folks out there there are a lot of country SDA's who eat a lot of the clean meats. I fink it kind-of interesting that EGW said to flee the cities yet in the large city SDA church my family sometimes attended and at the SDA schools the country SDA families were so looked down on. This was because being ranchers and farmers in both the raising of crops, animals for slaughter and eggs the ranchers/farmers would ha e to sometimes tend to the crops and beasts over the seventh day, usually because of foul weather.I paid very close attention to the gossip in the church among the grown-ups when I was a kid and I know what I heard. |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 66
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 5:39 pm: | |
Jackob,
I continue to remember you in my prayers. I know that "sabbath" can be a difficult time, so as the sun sets, my prayers are intensified for you and your loved ones. To borrow the words from a song, "Sometimes God calms the storm, and sometimes he calms His child." I pray for you to have peace as you pursue truth, regardless of the reations of others.
JavaGirl |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 652
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 8:30 am: | |
Flying lady...thanks. You know what you did! |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 461
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 5:51 pm: | |
Sylvia and I eat very little meat (mostly when eating out). I enjoy occasional tuna salad sandwiches that I make myself. Sylvia insists that I discard the foil pouch in the garage dumpster immediately (smile). She doesn't like any kind of fish.
In our case, we do not consider it important to eat meat or not to eat meat. We agree with our Sunday School teacher who stated, "Just because the Bible says that we can meat doesn't mean that we should." He has become mostly vegetarian in recent months due to health considerations (cholesterol problems, etc.). He reports a marked decrease in his cholestrol since eating largely a meatless diet. To eat meat or not to eat meat is another freedom we have in Christ.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 462
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 6:01 pm: | |
CORRECTION:
The quote from our SS teacher should read, "Just because the Bible says that we can eat meat doesn't mean that we should." I also misspelled "cholesterol" in my hurried typing. I seriously doubt that my cholesterol level caused these typos (smile).
Dennis Fischer |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1899
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:56 pm: | |
Pheeki,
Just tell God thank you and leave it at that.
Diana |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1110
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 9:04 am: | |
For graham cracker fans....
I found an interesting note on a website today... though the man died in 1851, it sounded eerily familiar...
http://www.snopes.com/food/origins/graham.htm
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Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 199
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 11:24 am: | |
Dennis,
I wholeheartedly agree with your post above (sorry I'm so late in getting caught up on some of these threads).
It seems to me that in Romans 14 Paul made the point that whether we eat or don't eat meat or hold one day above another or not, none of those things matter unless we're judging our brother regarding them. It doesn't seem like something that neccessarily needs to be overcome, but that's just me. Vegetarianism isn't a practice unique to SDA's and they make up only a miniscule portion of all the vegetarians in just the U.S., let alone the world. My wife is a vege and has no desire to start eating meat now just because she is no longer Adventist but is convinced that it's a healthier way to go given the lower rates of some cancers, lower cholesterol, etc. I have no problem with this. There are some formers who have maintained this diet and see it as one of the postives from their Adventist upbringing.
I'm not saying anyone else here believes this or is making this point but I don't think that whether or not someone maintains their vegetarianism means that they are any more or less spiritual than anyone else. It cuts both ways.
Heretic |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2702
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 12:00 pm: | |
Agreed, Heretic--and I have to clarify again that in Richard's case, the vegetarianism had the hold of an addiction, not of a preference. (He actually--many years ago and long before finding the gospel!--used to tease me that he couldn't kiss me after I ate meat.)
In Richard's case, vegetarianism was not a choice; it was an indoctrination that induced deep fear of shortened life span, possible contracting of cancer, physical aversion that caused nausea, and a deep sense of having a superior position. After he discovered the gospel and learned he was secure in Jesus, all his old thoughts and feelings stood in contradiction to his new beliefs. He has had to "give up" his aversion--not so much his vegetarianism--and allow Jesus to be sufficient and sovereign even in the area of food.
I'm certainly not remotely implying that vegetarians must "give it up" and eat meat. It's just that the meat issue in Richard's life was a surrender and trust issue. (We all have our own unique surrender issues!) He'll never be a "meat and potatoes" man. But praise God he can actually trust God with the whole issue and is beginning to be able to eat meat with thanksgiving and trust if it's served!
God is amazing.
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1995
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 6:30 pm: | |
Colleen, The kissing I well understand. I have a saying that goes like this, "Lips that touch cigetettes will never touch mine". So, I guess Richards saying was, "Lips that touch meat will never touch mine". We all have our limits. |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 285
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 9:25 am: | |
Coffee drinkers here is your article
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/
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Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 686
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 3:56 pm: | |
I recently stopped by to pay an uncle and aunt, 92, and 86, a visit. Any time I'm going past their town now I stop in for a visit! Anyway, we decided to go get some lunch at Denny's. We were reading through the menu and my uncle made the comment that it had been a long time since he'd had shrimp, so I ordered shrimp and we shared it. He grew up SDA, apostacized early in his first marriage, and is on his third marriage right now, having outlived two previous wives. His current wife has also outlived two previous husbands, and was at one time married to his first wife's brother. Please don't worry obout the inbred aspects of this, they were never related by more than marriage. I've only told you all of that to explain how he ended up married to another Adventist.
My uncle has done everything he can to effect marital harmony, including attending church with my aunt (she really has been my aunt all along!). That doesn't change the fact that he had studied his way beyond Adventism, and as a result a lot of his tastes had changed. He obviously would not offend her by ordering foods she considers "unclean" but was very happy to help me eat the large order I had, and I was glad to order a favorite of his. He let it drop that he likes lobster, too, so the next time I'm through there I will take them out to Red Lobster. My aunt can order chicken.
Actually, she's fairly cool about things like that so she didn't get all huffy with us. She loves coffee, and has eaten meat all of her life, having grown up on a farm. My uncle is just incredibly sweet and will not purposefully offend anyone. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2725
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:18 pm: | |
Belva, what a great visit with your aunt and uncle! How fun to share shrimp with him.
Colleen |
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