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Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 536
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recently heard a story of a woman that was married to a very controlling, militant man. For years he left, every morning, a list for his wife to do. At the end of the day he would come home and check the list for what had been accomplished and if each duty had been performed adequately. As you can imagine, the poor wife lived in misery and terror that she would be found deficient by her husband. One day he was killed in a car accident and his wife rejoiced. She later remarried a wonderful man whom she loved and who loved her back. After several years of her new marriage, she ran across one of those lists her dead husband had made for her. It suddenly struck her that everything on the list were things she automatically did for her current husband without being told or forced to do them out of fear. It was because she understood she was loved and she loved in return. Her actions, or works, were an automatic outpouring of her heart!


This is a true story that a SDA friend told me about her friend. I thought it was a perfect time to explain to her what the New Covenant of Christ meant to me!
Dennis
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Username: Dennis

Post Number: 453
Registered: 4-2000


Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent analogy, Dd! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Dennis Fischer
Jwd
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Username: Jwd

Post Number: 90
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great, Denise,

That's a good one to remember when people try to mix works demanded and works motivated by love
alone.

Blessings to you and yours,
Jess
Susan_2
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Username: Susan_2

Post Number: 1899
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd, That is an interesting story. When I first began reading it I thought you were a lurker into my private life as my husband (?) is (was?) a real oof. Please, refer to the prayer section of this forum for further info. Good story.
Jackob
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Username: Jackob

Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 3:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This story has limitations, excuse me for saying this, but, I heard this story from and adventist and he has no problem to say that all the requirements of decalogue, including Sabbath are in the new covenant written in the heart. He says that this is the difference between the old and the new covenant, and use the story to sustain the perpetuity of the Sabbath.

Jackob
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 945
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was thinking the same thing, Jackob--that an Adventist would use this story to support their viewpoint.

It may be a good description of salvation, and how we no longer serve God out of fear of losing out on eternal life but serve Him out of love for having already given us eternal life and eternal salvation. But it does not really distinguish clearly between the Old and New Covenants. But still, you probably could use this story to show how, Biblically, the Law died (and we died to the Law) and we no longer serve by way of the written code (the Law), but we serve in the new way of the Spirit. It is true that instead of doing good works out of fear, we do good works out of love. But, those works are not the exact same works that the Law required. So, as Jackob said, that story has limitations.

The problem is that most Adventists like to use similar arguments--saying that they serve out of love and that they "keep the commandments" out of love for Jesus. And, as Jackob pointed out, they claim that the Ten Commandments are now written on our heart and that is the only difference between the covenants, and that the New Covenant contains the exact same things as the Old Covenant!

Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on September 04, 2005)
Patriar
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Username: Patriar

Post Number: 151
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Jeremy:

I agree wholeheartedly. Let's get down to the heart of the matter:

Whether we keep Sabbath out of love or out of fear, it seems to me that it still makes Sabbathkeeping a requirement for salvation according to SDAs. Therefore they create a circular argument.

Patria
Dd
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Username: Dd

Post Number: 537
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jackob and Jeremy,
I had not thought of the moral of the story in a SDA viewpoint...which, I have to praise God for...that means He has released me from the bondage TOTALLY! I no longer have to worry about what a SDA will believe. God has given me insight of His unfailing, unconditional love. He is so good to keep piling on the hope and contentment that I so crave!

Until the veil has been lifted from their hearts, SDAs will continue to find a way to fit the Bible truths into their own belief system. For me, I will stand for Him! I will not allow myself to be pulled back into captivity everytime God reveals His truths to me.

I love a passage in Isaiah 61 that speaks of this.

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me,
Because the Lord has anointed me
To bring good news to the aflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives
And freedom to prisoners;

To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,

To grant those who mourn in Zion,
Giving them a garland instead of ashes,
The oil of gladness instead of mourning,
The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting.
So they will be cdalled oaks of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.

Then they will rebuild the ancient ruins,
They will raise up the former devastations;
And they will repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations." Isaiah 61:1-4

God has heard my cry of the bondage of Adventism. He fulfilled the requirement to set me free. I just didn't know it until He lifted the veil of my heart. I think David describes my journey out of Adventism best in Ps. 107:18-21..."Their soul abhorred all kinds of food, and they drew near to the gates of death. Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble; He saved them out of their distresses. He sent His word and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. Let them give thanks to the Lord for His lovingkindness, and for His wonders to the sons of men!"

Isaiah speaks of repairing my life after generations of devastations. I was raised a 3rd generation SDA. The generations before me lived in bondage of a religion that gave them very little hope because they lacked the assurance of their salvation.

God is rebuilding all that the past generations lost. He is rebuilding it for me and for my family. Jesus is the Restorer of my own ruins!

Sometimes I worry as a former SDA I can trade one bondage for another by always looking back at the ruins instead of forward to the redeeming grace of God. When I am focusing on what I left behind, how can God give me a garland instead of ashes, oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting?

This summer my 13 yr. old daughter and I did a Bible study together of Mark. I had an "a-hah" moment in chapter 4. It is the parable of the sower and the soils. Remember the farmer out throwing seeds? Some landed beside the road, some on rocky ground, some were scorched and others chocked by the thorns.

What caught my attention was verse 15 where Jesus was explaining to the disciples what the different seed scenerios meant. Vs. 15 was the explanation of the seeds that fell beside the road. "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them."

I asked myself, "How could that happen to me? I have a clear view of the New Covenant. I will never walk away from the freedom and joy that Christ's love brings to my life!" Then it hit me and I experienced the "A-hah!" moment.

Satan does NOT want me to have the joy. He will use anything to keep me in ANY bondage that seperates me from Christ. Adventism no longer works for him to keep me captivity. I have moved on and so has he! Looking back at that bondage can be a bondage itself!

In that moment I heard Jesus say, "Keep your eyes on Me! There is no bondage Here!"

"I will rejoice greatly in the Lord,
My soul will exult in my God;
For He has clothed me with garments of salvation,
He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness..." Isaiah 61:10
Patriar
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Username: Patriar

Post Number: 153
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd:

Beautiful. Thank you for that!

Patria
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 1835
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dd,
Amen. That is how I feel about where I am in my journedy with Jesus and Adventism. Looking at Jesus is so much more pleasant than looking back at what God gently pulled me out of.
I am constantly aware of how AWESOME God is.
Diana
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 2499
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for your inisght, Dd. You're absolutely right.

Colleen

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