| Author | Message | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 670 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, I know you did not disagree with Ken Silva, but I was speaking in a general sense to others who might be reading the links you provide. They are highly controversial and because certain respected and popular ministries are mentioned, there will be some who will take exception to the info presented. Some of the info on those links are questionable, and we always have to be careful of the accusations that are made to be sure that they are true. Stan | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 347 Registered: 10-2000 |
"""""Some of the info on those links are questionable, and we always have to be careful of the accusations that are made to be sure that they are true. Stan""" Stan, On this link here: http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain1.htm It is chock full of Scripture. I'd say that is not questionable but infact Truth. That link came from the above article as one of the referrences. Another linked referrenced they use is here: http://www.discernment-ministries.org/NLJulyAugust_2005.htm And in the second one it has many "proofs" to be sure that what is being said is truth. Did you read it? If so, did you read the referrenced material they are basing their article on? If not, why not. If so and it cannot be disputed, then those who 'take exception' simply don't want to know. What did 'you' think of the article? And Stan, hopefully you didn't stop your reading due to a particular name mentioned in the article. That's not being fair nor open to perhaps learn just a tad more. That is if you 'want to know.' Just asking because we, as Christians, are not to be deceived in these end times nor are we to stop up our mouths just because others disagree or dislike or don't want to know. We are to obey God, not men. Nobody can question Scripture. Not even Christians. I'd really like to know what you thought or think about what is happening---after you read the referrence material also, of course----and let's have some dialogue. We aren't here for a popularity contest. At least I should hope not! From the secular world that happens but in God's Church, it is a sin. Again, we are to obey God---not man. Even or especially on Christian forums. So how about we toss "popularityism" into the trash, where it belongs. And Stan, tell me what links are questionable and I can do a detailed research on them for us and if you're correct, then that'll help me and others. If you know of something that is wrong and don't sound the alarm, what'll God think of that? Typed with love through Christ Jesus. Denise | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 675 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, I agreed with almost everything in the Ken Silva article that I first commented on. I haven't had time to read the other links, and this week will be extremely busy, but I will get to them when I can. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 681 Registered: 3-2005 |
And Denise, I scanned the second link Sarah Leslie on Transformation. I am surprised in a way that they didn't use the term Emergent church, as that is a very disturbing movement led by Brian McClaren. There is so much to read and cross check in these articles, like looking at the footnotes and checking who made the claims. I have been outspoken in the past about my concerns regarding the seeker sensitive movement, and we have discussed it at length. I just can't make worrying about Rick Warren my primary concern. I prefer to study the great themes presented on Spurgeon's web site, and other giants of the faith. It's a matter of what I'd rather spend my limited time reading on the internet, but I will try to get back to you on some of the other links you presented. Stan | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 350 Registered: 10-2000 |
Stan, I agree, there are many disturbing movements going on at present. Finding time to zero in on any one movement is about all anyone of us can do anymore. As you have spoken the truth that there is much checking and cross checking on any one individual topic. I do thank you for your reply and hope that down the road you may check in on some of the referrences so that perhaps we both can come to some conclusion of what on earth it is that is being taught and where is it leading. Spurgeon, as you and anyone else reading this forum should know, is one of my alltime favorites. There is a thread called "Meditation for the day" that is all Spurgeon. I thought they would help edify the Church and so from time to time I'll post one of his devotions. Hopefully you have run across that thread. I see that the prayer thread keeps moving up and have considered doing that with the Spurgeon Meditation Thread. There is a great deal to be learned from the Spurgeon archives and that is where much of my time is spent believe it or not. It is most needful as edification is a must for me. His timeless Sermons are always of great value for me and God used that man then as much as He's still using his writings now. What an uplift and what education we get from all of Spurgeons writings! Hallelu-YAH! Have you read the "Downgrade Controversy" yet? It is very enlightening. As are his Farmers sermons. He was buried and called himself "John Ploughman." What a fitting name. A true and faithful man of God. May God Bless you and your household! Your sister in Christ, our Lord and King, Jesus. denise | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy: The fact that they don't consider SDAism a cult is yet another example of how well SDAs are doing at covering up their cultish nature with evangelical language. I mean, by gospeloutreach's own definition, Adventism is a cult! I'm am becoming very frustrated with people who seem to dismiss the 'SDA cult' idea because the "only thing really THAT different about them is Sabbath-keeping." It's so absurd that these people won't listen to US who have been brainwashed by it all. We have a local radio host who teaches that Adventism is a bad idea, but is VERY soft on them. He won't come out and say that there are MAJOR problems. He's a Calvary Chapel preacher too, who knows Mark Martin personally. I don't understand!!!!  Maybe we need to start a ministry that would cite the specific problems with SDA teachings, both explicit and implicit. Patria | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 351 Registered: 10-2000 |
Stan, Even though you are somewhere else in your reading, it is very imperative that you and others take this topic to heart and pray. It is my belief that once you read this first article, you will see just how the Gospel of Jesus Christ is being changed. Millions are following this wide path and we know where that leads according to the Ruler of all, Jesus Christ Himself. And this is just the beginning of things being touted as truth in this Purpose Driven ideology. I pray that many run across these articles and start taking God's Word seriously. And begin doing their own research. http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/Articles/read_articles.asp?ID=112 http://www.crossroad.to/News/Church/Klenck2.html http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue80.htm Here are other articles as well regarding this Purpose Driven philosophy and also of the Emerging Church movement: http://www.crossroad.to/News/Church/purpose-driven.html In Christ Jesus. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 352 Registered: 10-2000 |
Hello Patriar, You are so right. SDAism is a Cult. I stand by that statement also. God Bless you! Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 353 Registered: 10-2000 |
More articles regarding Rick Warren's flawed teaching and why they are flawed, leading many millions of people astray. New Ageism and other Globalist teachings that are all being combined. All of these relate to the other, including Rick Warren. (see next to last link for connections). Here's a paragraph from Let Us Reason Ministries: "Christianity Today introduced Templetonís book, Discovering The Laws of Life to a Christian audience in 1994. They assigned the entire back cover of its April 24, 1994 issue with an ad promoting it. Headlined ěWill inspire Millions of Readers.î In what one may seriously ask? The book was promoting New Age in its content. The ad contained the endorsements of Norman Vincent Peale (who also wrote the foreword), Robert Schuller, Billy Graham, and two prominent Catholic New Age leaders, Theodore M. Hesburgh (former president of Notre Dame University) arid J. Peter Grace (head of the Knights of Malta)." (see link below) http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor66.htm http://www.challies.com/archives/000876.php On the one above, be sure to read the Christian bloggers that follow the article. They will open somebody's eyes. http://www.crossroad.to/HisWord/verses/topics/false-prophets.htm http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/community-1.htm http://www.letusreason.org/Curren40.htm http://www.crossroad.to/glossary/church/na_terms.htm There seem to be so many different connections that it takes an extensive amount of time to research. However, here are a few to begin your search with. May the Lord bless all in their research. Denise | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2467 Registered: 12-2003  |
Patria, I completely share your frustration. The lack of the evangelical community's concern about Adventism is bad enough; when they actually argue with or dismiss those of us who have BEEN there--that is beyond frustrating. Dale Ratzlaff sent out 500 packets which included a copy of "The Truth about Seventh-day Adventist Truth", 2 Proclamations (the IJ issue and the "Great Divide" New Covenant issue), and a letter. These packets went to the evangelical pastors in St. Louis during the month before the GC meetings. The letter included an offer for the recipients to call or write for more info, and he gave a whole list of former SDAs' phone numbers and the particular doctrinal issues they would be able to talk about. Last week he told me that he has received only 1 reply from those 500 packets, and that one reply was not truly interested in knowing more. (I can't remember the reason for the contact, but he indicated it was not a contact of serious interest.) His observation was that he guessed the SDA PR machine had done its job so well that no one was inclined to take his info seriously. It's true that we can't actually know the true effect of the mailing without actually hearing from people, but it "feels" like the same kind of indifference or even critical spirit that accuses us of dividing the body. I continue to pray that God will expose and break the spirit of Adventism. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 932 Registered: 10-2004  |
Patria, actually gospeloutreach.net DOES consider SDAism to be a cult. (It looks like it is run by a former SDA, Rolaant McKenzie--so no wonder!  ) They have quite a bit of good info about SDAism on that site. "Maybe we need to start a ministry that would cite the specific problems with SDA teachings, both explicit and implicit." Yes, I have pondered the need for something like that, also. Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 702 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, There is one link provided in your very last post that goes to the web site of a very respected voice in the Christian community, and that is Tim Challies www.challies.com/archives/000876.php in that article he describes the fact that Ladies Home Journal gave Rick Warren an opportunity to write a column for them. Challies (who does believe Warren is a Christian) thought that this would be a great opportunity for Rick Warren to share the gospel. But what did Warren do with that opportunity? He used it to preach the gospel of self esteem. It was mostly pop psychology. Now that is a legitimate criticism, don't you think? Here is a man who is revered (some say worshipped) by millions, and has incredible influence. That is why some of us are disappointed in Rick Warren, who knows the truth, and can be very good at preaching the true gospel, yet at times tries to be popular by watering down the gospel. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 703 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, One more thing. I know you are a big fan of Spurgeon. I responded to your article on the Treshing. Also, the downgrade controversy Spurgeon was involved with was dealing with many issues we are all concerned with, and that is the watering down of the gospel, and worldliness coming into the church. Stan | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 354 Registered: 10-2000 |
Stan, Yes, Rick Warren was given a wonderful opportunity with the Lady's Home Journal and I, like yourself and many others, feel very saddened and frustrated that he didn't proclaim the Everlasting Gospel of Jesus Christ. Just think of how many people would have come to know the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. And again this is very much as you have spoken; just as the same thing during Spurgeon's day, a watering down and even a denying of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And in doing that the worldliness is automatic in the midst of the Church. It is my estimated opinion that this is spiritual warfare spoken of by the Apostle Paul and the only way I can think of bringing down strongholds, is prayer. Besides our continued effort to bring this issue to light to others, prayer is our most powerful weapon. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" Ephesians 6:12 "Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand." Ephesians 6:13 "Stand firm then, with the belt of Truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the Gospel of Peace" Ephesians 6:14-15 "In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one." Ephesians 6:16 "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God." Eph. 6:17 "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints." Ephesians 6:18 That is our way of fighting. Not only against the spirit behind Rick Warren and those like him but also against the spirit behind Adventism. Let us pray at every and all opportunities. While laying down or upon our rising. In walking or in the midst of anguish. At all times, let this be our opportunity never forgetting that this is also our responsibility as soldiers and disciples of Jesus Christ. Hallelu-Yah and Amen! Standing fast in Christ Jesus of Nazareth. denise | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 705 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, Along these same lines, there are evangelicals trying to blur the lines between Protestants and Catholics. The doctrine of Justification by faith alone is being attacked by scholars who claim to have a new perspective on Paul and are claiming that Luther's view of Paul that the evangelical church has held for 500 years is all wrong. Billy Graham used to stand strong against Catholicism in his early days, but now embraces Catholics as just another Christian church, and goes out of his way on programs like Larry King to applaud the Vatican. A lot of martyrs spilled their blood in vain if the Vatican is a true church. And, related to the posts above and why evangelicals regard Adventism as just another Christian church, it is precisely the muddled thinking of most evangelicals who can't even articulate the very foundation of the Protestant Reformation-The article of justification by faith alone. On this article the Christian church stands or falls, declared Luther. But when you see all the ecumenism and syncretism abounding today, well Adventism is of little concern to the evangelical community, and it goes along with accepting Catholicism as well. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2471 Registered: 12-2003 |
Actually, Stan, you make a very good point about the pervasiveness of the "muddled thinking" among evangelicals. It really is easy to see why Adventism (and Catholicism) are of little concern. Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 355 Registered: 10-2000 |
See this news--this is very sad, disheartening and can be a tad bit frightening to read just how far the Church has fallen. Here's just a glimpse of this article, read the rest from the link: "Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -- one of the UCC's partner denomations -- called for Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches to come together to combat a "fundamentalist-millenialist-apocalypticist reading of Scripture." http://news.ucc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=297&Itemid=54 Keep the Faith nomatter what. With love through Christ our Lord and King Jesus. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 356 Registered: 10-2000 |
Stan, All of that that you have named has been going on for a few years now. It's now getting to the point that I keep expecting WW3 and then anti-christ. Some of these articles are the kind that leave one with your jaw dropping. Unbelievable yet it is happening and has been happening. It is moving very fast now. I have other articles, some worse, some bizarre and unbelievable, yet all happening to the Church. May God Grant us His Peace and Wisdom (Matt. 24). In Christ, Jesus of Nazareth. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 357 Registered: 10-2000 |
Here's what Herb thinks about that last article I posted: http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/the_harlot_comes.html | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 361 Registered: 10-2000 |
Stan, Along with all the religions joining together, which was prophesied, at the same time we have the New Age movement going full steam ahead. Part of the New Age is their 'animal rights' ideology. This too is prophesied and at present cannot remember what Scripture where it tells us that the wild beasts of the field will attack us in the end days. See this article that'll help that prophesy be fulfilled (not counting viruses and such that our scientists are messing with): http://illinoisleader.com/news/newsview.asp?c=27960 This "Rewilding of America" will bring with it chaos such as we've not seen yet with animals and of course the viruses that our scientists are now messing with in their cloning, chemical weapons making activity. It is my belief that we are in the end of the age. And I mean the part where the tribulation is fast upon us. I do not believe we will be raptured out before the tribulation but perhaps somewhere in the middle or towards the end of it instead. All these things we are seeing happening all around us are the very things Jesus Christ told us to watch for and to pray. There are so many things now that to keep up is impossible. It's all happening so fast. Yet, there are many Christians that do not want to talk about end time prophecy and this can only be explained in my head as fear or denial. And now we see in that one article above this last one how the different Churches are gathering together to stop us from talking about the end times. I can bet it becomes law and that many will be arrested for speaking on end times as many pastors today in the United States are being harassed and arrested by the Feds for preaching the Gospel. It's happening and I have the newspaper articles. Let us keep in contact with one another, not avoiding uncomfortable topics, neither avoiding preaching and teaching the Truth as we know it. And above all, let us keep the Faith once delivered. Nomatter how some are now really trying to take that Truth away. We know that we are justified by Faith. Saved by Grace through Faith. If it were not for Faith, we would not have salvation for although it is by Grace we are saved, it is through Faith we are Justified. Without Faith, there is no justification, no salvation. Let us hold tight to God's Word. "By Faith Abraham...." Hebrews gives us a clear picture of what Faith does and did for those faithful. With love through Christ our Savior, Jesus of Nazareth. denise |
