| Author | Message | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 627 Registered: 3-2005 |
Wow! Just when you thought things might calm down on that EGW thread, and another barrage of stuff. I would be very surprised if they leave up that post by postmodern. I could not stop laughing! I know it is sad in a way, but you have to go to page 6 of that EGW thread and read the posts by postmodern and John 8:32 before someone takes them down. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 598 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow! The bitterness that has been expressed there! Yes, I know we have not been kind to EGW either, but those people are truly angry. I don't blame them, but I personally find their bitterness misplaced. EGW was an injured woman with a diminished capacity. Her husband and his cronies used her to create a new religion, and she, who was not stupid by any means, saw it as a real money-maker and joined right in. Be that as it may, it is now 150 years later, and the leaders of the church are continuing to shop these old lies and threats around and sell them to every ensuing generation. They don't even believe this stuff themselves. A good example is your friend Larsen. He uses the shopping cart method of picking and choosing what he wants to keep from her, and simply ignores the rest, but leaves all that stuff on the shelves for others to buy into. I don't blame these people for being angry, but it is time to grow up, realize that they have now considered the source, and to get on with the business of finding the truth, the real truth. The Jesus of scripture was a real man, known to have lived and died, and because of the Christians who sprang up shortly after he died, we know that he lives again forevermore, and because he lives, we can too. No reason to throw Jesus out with Ellen. The Jesus I know doesn't seem to be the one she talks about, so all you have to do is close that book and put it back on the shelf. Bind it up with a warning label if you must, but put it behind you and get back to seeking Jesus. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2005 |
I just checked the Spectrum forum and, to my surprise, I discovered that Ellen White use the exact words of Paul, against his counsel. Fantastic, I never saw such a blatant contradiction! Congratulations for the person who discovered this. Jackob | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 915 Registered: 10-2004  |
The people that talked to us at revivalsermons.org need to go to the Spectrum forum and see what real bitterness is like! People should be able to see the difference between our posts and those who are very bitter and are not Christians. Jeremy | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 970 Registered: 7-2003  |
Good point Jeremy. My first reaction when I saw them labeling themselves "former Adventists" was to cringe. My views and their's bare no resemblance to each other. I would hate to be lumped into that group. There's a BIG difference between a Former-Adventist-Turned-Christian and a Former-Adventist-Turned-Atheist. Chris | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 629 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy and Chris, You are right. I had to laugh and cry at the same time. Yes, it was very bitter, but the language used was clever and funny at times. I think that the folks at Spectrum have given us a wonderful opportunity to show the difference between Christians who are rejoicing and have confidence in their salvation, and those former SDAs who are just bitter and are now infidels. Unfortunately, that is where the majority of disaffected ex-SDAs end up--their faith has been shipwrecked. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 630 Registered: 3-2005 |
They have just closed the EGW thread to any further comments, although they have not taken down the thread or deleted any posts. I think those two posts from yesterday forced the issue. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 916 Registered: 10-2004 |
"I had to laugh and cry at the same time. Yes, it was very bitter, but the language used was clever and funny at times." I agree, Stan.  I just looked at the Spectrum forums and they have now LOCKED the entire "Ellen White and Adventism" forum. All of the posts are still there, however. It's starting to look like Richard O'Ffill with his forum. At the link that "john8verse32" gave (http://www.ellenwhite.org/critich.htm), there is an amazing quote from EGW. Here is the entire paragraph as published in Mansucript Releases:
WOW!!! The hatred is just incredible. Ellen G. White was not a Christian. In fact, she hated Christians! 1 John 4:8, 20 says that means she cannot be a Christian. Also, notice in that quote that EGW is admitting that her religion has no power to change people and transform their lives! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on August 09, 2005) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 917 Registered: 10-2004 |
I see that Stan beat me to it, about the EGW forum being closed. Jeremy | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 403 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeremy, the phrase that you did not emphasize in bold is actually the one that got me the most lathered up: "Immoralities exist among them to a fearful extent." What an absurd and disgusting accusation with no basis in fact or Scripture! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 918 Registered: 10-2004 |
I know--it's totally disgusting. She said stuff like that multiple times. Here are a couple more instances:
Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 631 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, I could tell that a lot of people loved your quotes over there. Another quote similar to the above is from Early Writings, pp260-261, "...I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefitted by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up THEIR USELESS PRAYERS TO THE APARTMENT WHICH JESUS HAS LEFT; and Satan, pleased with the deception..." Well you get the picture. God doesn't hear the prayers of non-Adventist Christians, because they are going to the wrong apartment!! Also, I wonder what proof Ellen had to accuse these first day Adventists of all this immorality. I frankly don't know how Walter Martin, who claimed to have read all of EGW's writings, could then call EGW regenerate. He was a friend of mine, but I wish I had known about these quotes, so I could have confronted him more forcefully. Other Christians such as Anthony Hoekema were not fooled, however. Stan | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 753 Registered: 7-2000 |
Stan & Jeremy, I'm sure most here have had the same feeling as my husband and I did upon first going to the "NOMINAL" churches and hearing Christ-centered sermons!...sermons that also included the need for holy living...not in a legalistic way, but in a rejoicing-because-of-grace way! This is a "nominal" church?! This is teaching an anything goes, no morality-lifestyle!? The Adventist Church tries to portray a public relations image saying that other churches are valid Christians. BUT...the reality is that they believe they are antinomian, teach an incomplete gospel, and need to be told about and embrace "present truth"... the Sabbath, State of the Dead, Sanctuary, Spirit of Prophecy, and ??? (another "S" doctrine?). grace always, cindy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 632 Registered: 3-2005 |
Cindy, especially since I remember you saying that you attended Tenth Presbyterian church under the teaching of the late great Dr. James Montgomery Boice. His book "Amazing Grace" is excellent. Now that church was no NOMINAL church by any standard, but EGW said that God doesn't hear the prayers of these Christians, because they are offered up to the wrong apartment! Well, maybe she modified her inspired counsel later in her life when more "light" became available. Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 633 Registered: 3-2005 |
It looks like the link to that Spectrum forum got archived, so I will re-post it. www.spectrummagazine.org/phpbb The other threads remain open, and a bunch more new skeptics have come on the "Why I remain an Adventist" thread Stan | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 600 Registered: 7-2004 |
Some of you are much more experienced at these types of things than I am. My only experience at interchanges with Adventists on-line have been R/S, and now Spectrum. Seeing the posts on Spectrum, with the Adventists being cultural at best, and the formers being vindictive at worst, how do the Adventists manage to keep people in the pews on Sabbaths? I went to Spectrum hoping to share my faith and to perhaps engage in a little lively debate, and what happened was that I more fully experienced the intense sadness of the Adventist people. I sensed it a little bit when I visited with my former academy roommate earlier this summer. Her father was not only a minister, he was a conference mucky-muck. She has taught in SDA schools all of her adult life, raised her children in the church and from all appearances they are able to toe the line as well as she is. She is inculterated as an SDA and will live that lifestyle the rest of her life because she is comfortable with it, but I don't seem to sense a lot of joy. I'm going to stay in touch, because she was a real kick to be with when we were younger, and I know she has a great capacity for joy. Maybe that is what I'm searching for when I encounter SDA's is, how much capacity for joy do they have, and how willing are they to exercise it?" I remember trying to live the lifestyle, diet, deed, everything, and it used up so much energy maintaining the way of life and remaining on guard that outbursts of joy were few and far between. Since accepting Jesus as the one solely responsible for my salvation I've found that it is a lot easier to submit to outbursts of joy, and I never want to go back to living that guarded life that I used to have. I suspect that a lot of the bitterness we encountered at Spectrum was just people avoiding with every ounce of their being having to go back to guarding their lifestyles like that. I love you guys, and I wish you unguarded outbursts of joy! Belva | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 755 Registered: 7-2000 |
Stan, That's correct. James Boice was the pastor we heard...an excellent expository-from-Scripture preacher! The brainwashing from Adventist doctrine was quickly eradicated by the clarity of the gospel of Christ crucified for us! grace always, cindy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 919 Registered: 10-2004 |
Cindy, there is another "S" doctrine (although it's part of the "Sanctuary doctrine" I guess), and it's one of the most Satanic doctrines of them all: the Scapegoat Doctrine. Oh, "Sinless perfection" and "Sinful nature of Christ" are a couple more traditional "S" doctrines. Let's see...would Ellen's teachings regarding the evils of Spices be considered a doctrine?  She also denounced Swine, Shrimp, Soda (baking), Sugar, Sports, even Sex within marriage! Even Sickness was a SIN according to Ellen! I'm sure the list could go on... Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on August 09, 2005) | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 757 Registered: 7-2000 |
Jeremy, Thanks for those additional "S" doctrines' I knew there had to be some more...Yes, that Scapegoat one is Satanic. Your other ones are funny!!--in a very sad sort of way! grace. cindy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2388 Registered: 12-2003  |
Wow, those quotes, Jeremy, are amazing. One of the things that jumped out at me from your post yesterday morning is that Ellen didn't believe people's lives could be changed. If those beastly "first day Adventists" became "real" Adventists, they wouldn't be able to get over their false beliefs and practices. She clearly tips her hand; she was not a Christian, nor is Adventism true Christianity. There is no transforming power of the Holy Spirit evident in her writings, and her understanding of conversion is nil. Actually, as I was reading through her litany of the supposed sins of the First Day Adventists, a phrase my dad used to use came to mind. I realize it's a bit earthy, but my dad was a Minnesota farm boy. Here's what he used to say when he encountered people transferring their own guilt onto others: "A dog smells his own stink first." Right. Colleen |
