| Author | Message | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hi everybody, This is my first post, I'm a Romanian adventist (still in the church records). I don't speak english very well, my grammar is not so good, please, excuse my mistakes. I was born in an adventist family, believed in adventist ideals, with claims of divine truth and so on. Today I discovered the righteousness by faith and its total incompatibility with Investigative Judgment. My world was shattered, and now constantly have to battle with thoughts which haunted me, and refused to go. If you have some insights I'll be pleased if someone will share with me. I forgave my parents and all the people who caused me harm through education and indoctrination in adventism's "truths". But what for me is impossible to ignore is the fact that the system still indoctrinates people and blaming those who try to open the eyes of members. The problem is that, the truth about God was very hard to be found. There are, I'm sure, many wrong aspects of the character of God in my mind. But, when somenone discovers truth, with great anguish of soul, because he must renounce the worldview wich was all he have from the childhood, he must engage in a huge battle with the system wich wants to bring him back, even if it's pubicly silent, like me now (only my wife and few persons knows what I believe). It's strange, and so unjust. Now, the problem is that my soul wish to restore the old days, in which the church was the place of the truth, a refuge from the world, a family. "What have you done with my church? This is not the church to which I become member. Where is the truth, the liberty, all that you promised me?" I'm like a victim who have lost the money in a promising bussiness. To be clear, I don't want revenge. I don't want the people to be punished, I know that revenge is of the Lord. All I want is that the church to be like it used to be when I don't know the truth. And I know that's impossible. But I find that I'm still clinging to these toughts. Have anyone these thoughts? Have you felt that must stay and claim the right to request the church to be true to its promises, promises about truth, love, and faith? With the promise of being the remnant church, to have the truth, to be the church which follows the Bible and the Bible only, the sda church baptized his members. It's too much to stay and request the church to be true to its claims? The reality tells me that's too much. But, like I said, these thoughts haunted me, and refused to go. The problem is amplified because the church doesn't stop from deceiving and indoctrinated people. I feel like I have beeen raped, spiritually, and the perpetrator have green light to continue to do this. This gives me anguish of mind, and the thoughts which I have described refused to go. I don't want my church to be punished, I want just to be like it pretents to be, and stop deceiving people. I know that it is impossible, but... And this "but" is a big problem. Thank you for reading this post. Sorry for bothering you with this nonsense, I wish get rid of it myself. God bless you, Jacob | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 177 Registered: 6-2001  |
Hi Jackob and welcome to the forum! I know what I'm about to say doesn't help you practically, but I know what you are feeling because I feel it sometimes too. We both are longing for Heaven with its perfect unity, perfect love. Unfortunately on earth churches are run by imperfect people who do some very sad things. (some are more imperfect than others I might add.) But I can tell you have a sweet spirit, and you have to trust God to tell you the right path to take. Imperfectly, Hannah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2335 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jacob, I'm so glad you've joined us! Your feelings are familiar to most of us. I often compare my relationship with the church to a relationship between a child who has an addicted or otherwise abusive parent. While the child loves and clings to the parent and the parent to the child, still the parent is deeply flawed and hurts the child as long as the child stays close. I remember distincly having a Christian counselor tell me one day that she had explained to a young client seeing her because of trauma related to a severly abusive parent that although the parent said s/he loved the child, that claim was not true. Love does not habitually harm the beloved. The Adventist church, unfortunately, holds a very wonderful ideal before us. It makes us feel special and chosen and good and comfortable, yet underneath it is deceptive and incapable of telling us the truth. Because it was founded on unbiblical doctrines endorsed by the prophecies of a false prophet, it is founded on a lie, not on Biblical truth. Just as when a child grows up enough to leave an abusive family and begins to realize how deeply they had been hurt by those who claimed to love him, so it is when God awakens us to truth, and we find we must leave the church. We quite literally leave the womb in which we were formed. Leaving is unimaginably painful. Here's where God's faithfulness becomes evident. He promises to complete the work He begins in us (Phil 1:6), and He promises never to leave us or forsake us and that nothing can separate us from His love (Romans 8:35-39). He promises to be a Father to the fatherless and to put the lonely in families. We cannot expect the church to change, Jacob--but we can learn to allow Jesus to become more real to us than the church and its promises ever were. Jesus is completely faithful, and He WILL bring into your life support and fellowship that will surpass anything you ever experienced in Adventism. Keep going back to the Bible and praying. He will not fail you. And feel free to come here anytime you have doubts, questions, or feelings of loneliness. We understand how you feel, and we will pray for you and support you. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 435 Registered: 4-2000  |
Jacob, A hearty, FAF welcome! You have come to the right place. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 499 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jacob, Your English is wonderful. Do not worry because it is not perfect. I only know English and my grammer is poor and my spelling even worse. I am so glad that you have come to FAF! You are NOT bothering anyone with your "nonsense" for if that is what it is, we are all filled with the same "nonsense" here at this place. Everyone here has been touched by Adventism. We ALL understand, empathize and love the opportunity God gives us to be here with those He has called into His unfailing love and joy. What God wants more than anything else for us is to live in His love and enjoy the peace and contentment His love brings to our lives. Our adversary wants to block God's peace from becoming a reality. He wants us to feel there is something we are doing wrong, that there is no possible way to really know God's truths, to fear breaking from the religion of our childhood, to hold onto the anger of being brainwashed...the list goes on and on. I love the short little phrase in Isaiah 9:4 - "For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders." Jesus is THE ONE that sets us free! He tells us that "His yoke is easy and His burden is light" and He is the One that leads us to find "rest for [our] souls" (Matt. 11:28-30). Someone once told me to exchange the word "salvation" with the word "heal" or "healing" everytime I find it in a verse. That is what God does for us! His salvation is the healing salve our weary souls need. Amos asked the question, "Do two men walk together unless they have made an appointment?" (Amos 3:3). Pure appreciation for God's presence in my life emerges from a daily walk with Him. "Be their strength every morning, our salvation (healing) also in the time of distress" (Isaiah 33:2). Jacob, you are in my prayers today. Don't be discouraged! God will show you the way for you to go. Let Him be your strength (Ps. 84:5-7), your stability (1 Cor. 3:11), your wisdom and knowledge (Ps. 119:105). A daily relationship brings an enjoyment of God and obedience based on trust - Jeremiah 29:11-13; 1 Cor. 2:9; 2 Cor. 2:14. | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2005 |
Welcome Jacob! Don't worry about your English and grammer - you write just fine! You are very clear in what you want to convey. I can identify with a lot of what you are feeling. For years I wanted the Church to "own up" to its deception, and I even thought it might someday. At times I wished I could have a simple faith and not do all the questioning I was doing. I didn't want to know how awful things really were within the SDA Church. But finally I had to admit that the SDA Church was wrong and wouldn't change (at least not in my lifetime, if ever). So I had to leave the Church I was brought up in. I know what you mean when you say you feel raped by the SDA Church. And it seems as if they will get away with it, without being held accountable. I know they WILL be held accountable in God's timing though. Leaving was the best thing I could have done, because now I do have that "simple" faith that I wanted so badly! The SDA Church made it so complicated, but now I'm free!! There is so much to learn - and unlearn! The Bible makes so much sense now. The Christian doctrines are so much clearer. I have a lot of studying to do. But the great thing is this - I KNOW I AM SAVED, even if I don't understand all the details yet. Learning is now for fun and growth, not for salvation! I want to tell all my SDA friends that they are being abused and are giving themselves over to a deceptive church. But, it's like any abusive situation, those who are in it often don't see it clearly, and the abuser refuses to admit to the abuse! Since one can't change the abuser, one has to recognize the abuse and leave. So I just pray that the Holy Spirit will open their eyes and hearts, and that I may be able to be an example to them, to show them a way out. The SDA people are being deceived and often are doing the best they can, only God knows their hearts. It's the SDA Organization that I hold accountable and is where my anger tends to be focussed. And I do still feel anger! But in the end, I can see that God is in charge and knows what needs to be done, so I can give that anger over to Him. Then I just feel sad about all those deceived people! Finding other solid Christians to fellowship with has been the best thing for me. I have learned so much from them. And then, coming to this forum, I can find others who have experienced similar things, who know the pain that questioning and leaving the SDA Church has brought, have experienced the trouble with friends and family. So, keep coming back, as you need to, and you will find this a place of compassion (and passion!), a place to vent and find solace, a place where we pray for each other and support each other in this journey we are on. It's been great to "meet" you! -tisha | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 115 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jackob - I just realized that I misspelled your name in my last post! I'm so sorry! A name is important and I want to get it right. I hate to think how I'd do trying to communicate in your language! I'm amazed when someone can write as well as you do when it is not your first language. But I WILL at least write your name in your language! -tisha | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 116 Registered: 3-2005 |
Well, now I am confused! What do you want to be called? I see you spelled it both ways ;>) Jackob or Jacob? Leave it to me to get confused! Somedays, I have trouble remembering my own name! I have started to sign my check and really had to think about it! And I've had this name for over 50 years - that's scary. -tisha | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 585 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jackob, Welcome to FAf, and thanks for sharing your story. Most of us were where you are now in your spiritual journey. I am praying for you as you are starting a faith journey. The Lord will be with you every step of the way. The journey can be very painful at times, but it is well worth it. God bless you. Stan | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2005 |
Welcome Jacob, you expressed so well the feelings I have had, and still have sometimes. Colleen explained the process so well, and I liked Dd's suggestion to replace salvation with heal. Any traumatic experience takes time to heal. We must lean on Gods promises to be with us. And by the way your English is wonderful!!Be comforted to know that many people are praying for you, and come back again, let us know how you are doing. | ||
| Brian2 Registered user Username: Brian2 Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2005 |
Welcome Jackob, You have been given a blessing by the Lord. You have tasted the real "truth". Stay true to what you have learned. The SDA Church will not change. You have been given a special understanding that many in the world have not tasted. You are a special person with a special insight into Adventism. I am not sure what the Lord has planned for you. What ever it is, it is special. I think that all formers are a special people with a special gift. The gift of understanding. Stay true to the Lord. He will give you peace if you surrender all of this to HIM. Brian | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1741 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jacob, Welcome to FAF. Your english is very good and you expressed very well what you are going through. All of us have passed through the experience you are going through at some time in our journey out of adventism. The important thing is, that you have found Jesus Christ and have started a relationship with Him. He will not fail you and will send you the Holy Spirit to teach you. He will hold you in His awesome arms and will not drop you. He has promised that. Keep coming back and tell us how you are doing. Diana | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2004  |
I'm delighted to see someone from Romania here! I was there last summer and wondered if anyone there knew about these issues. The SDA church certainly is doing very well in numbers, in Romania. Jeremiah | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 |
Dear brothers, Thanl you very much for receiving me in your forum. Your response was a real blessing for me, unexpected to be so many posts on this threat. I'll be back with other comments about these, and, if exists a place in this forum for sharing glimpses of our spiritual journey, please inform me. Tisha, call me Jackob, it was 2 o'clock tonight when I awoke to write, and maked a mistake in my tipying. Jeremiah I'm very glad and surprised to meet someone who visited Romania. Have you here friends who share our concerns? In Romania people knows almost nothing about issues like Glacier View. They calls almost everything wich tends to cross their way apostacy and call names, they don't want from the star to discuss these things. Even in Bucharest, where I'm now, the main city, people are like under a spell. They fear everything, and few people were disfellowshiped for expressng their disagreement openly. They were in the same church, and the rest of churches, even the "progressive" taked measures that nothing could happen in their congregation like this. Time to go to work, Jackob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2337 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yossariana, who sometimes posts on this forum, is also from Romania. Perhaps she'll check in and say "Hi!" to you, Jackob! I understand what you are describing when you say people are "under a spell" and afraid to express their disagreements openly. Remember that Paul said in Galatians 5:1 that it is for freedom that God has set us free--do not be bound again to a yoke of slavery! Truth is in Scripture; peace and confidence are in Jesus. Stay close to Him, and immerse yourself in His word. He will carry you to a place of safety in His heart and in His body--those who are united by the Holy Spirit! Colleen | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 701 Registered: 7-2000 |
Jakob, it is not only in your country that people know almost nothing about these issues. I find the same is true here in southeast Alabama. The people just don't care enough to check into the issues. Anything that might possibly rock their confidence in "the church" is immediately considered apostasy and then ignored. They choose to be ignorant rather than question. They certainly don't want to hear you say, "if what you believe is truth, then it can stand up to examination". | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jackob, You are the first Romanian I've heard of besides Yossariana that knows the problems with SDA doctrines. When I was in Romania I was at Herghelia health center and I didn't tell anyone what I think... I don't like causing trouble and I was supposed to be helping, not making problems. I enjoyed my 3 months in Romania and wouldn't mind going back sometime. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2005 |
Jeremiah, in Herghelia you must be sure that nobody cares. Ellen White and the health reform are the basis for the existence of the health center. Lydell, I think that they know somehow that what they believe can't pass the investigation, that is not truth. This explains why they don't want to analize the evidence. But like a drog who alters the reality, the truth, to make it acceptable, even if the consumer knows that what it offers is not reality, the religion functions for them like a drog. Have anyone a better explanation? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 586 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jackob, Equating SDAism with a drug is a perfect analogy. I know some people who seem to think they are so dependent on that "drug" that their very lives depend on it. They look at me with amazement, yet they seem to be morbidly watching, hoping that something will go wrong with my witness. I have no fear of witnessing for Jesus, but while I was a SDA I was afraid of being thought of as weird if I said too much. The Adventists I know are quick to tell me that in their church their pastor doesn't stress EGW a whole lot, but that he teaches gospel. I've only heard their pastor speak once, but I wasn't that impressed at the time. Jesus said the He had come that we might have life in abundance. I don't know about the rest of you, but while an SDA, with my religion telling me what to eat, what to wear, what kind of entertainment would be okay, and telling me to work for perfection, I felt half alive, pressured, and frightened. I'm so thankful all of that is behind me now. Welcome to our forum Jackob. Already, you are a great benefit to our discussions. Belva | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2005 |
Thanks, Belva. It's really a great forum, and i'm happy to be here, if I can give some insights, I'm more happy. For several months I had read what is posted here, and it's a good place to feel at home. In our spiritual journey I'm feeling like a beginner, and have a lot to learn and unlearn. God bless you all for your participation in this forum. it's refreshing to say what you think and don't be questioned about that. I mean questioned about your relationship with God. If you are not in harmony with the leaders of adventism, or have questions, doubts about biblical or supposed biblical truths, immediately others think that the guy has a problem with God, allowing his pride to control him, etc., etc. Here are people who have real compassion for others, trying to build, to empower the person in need. Jackob |
