| Author |
Message |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 887
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 2:01 pm: |     |
You're right Susan. I don't think I've ever heard an SDA explanation of "what" the 12 tribes are, if the 144,000 is composed of SDAs!
Jeremy |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 987
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 9:22 pm: | |
B has seemed to insinuate the former 12 tribes are now us somewhere in America (and I know there are others who teach some sort of transferrence to the US as the "lost tribes"). The fascinating thing about that to me is how people in 3rd world countries feel when there is so much focus on America. Do they feel left out? Maybe it's not played out as strong in other countries, but I know B certainly thinks/thought at one time that some group in the US made up those "lost" tribes. ... (and on a side note, it further shows the diminishing view of God that he lost track of people's lineage...if that were still important!) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2350
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:24 am: | |
Wow, Mormons believe the lost tribes are in America! I admit I didn't hear about American lost tribes as an Adventist, but somehow it doesn't surprise me to hear this at all!
Colleen |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 954
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 7:43 am: | |
The lost tribes myth is also strong in groups with connections to Herbert Armstrong. However, it should be noted that the World Wide Church of God has now renounced Armstrong's teaching that Anglo-Saxons are the heirs of the promises made to Israel.
Melissa, SDAs and Armstrong influenced groups have always had a certain natural affinity for each other so it may be that B has had contact with one of these groups (quite possibly the WWCG prior to its transition to an evangelical Christian organization).
Chris
Chris |
Alnadean
Registered user
Username: Alnadean
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 9:12 am: | |
Hi everyone,
I personally don't understand all this confusion with the 144,000 as it is plainly stated in Rev who they are, and by the way as I studied I had an epiphany about the whole 'remnant' and the small number that SDA'a thought would be saved. Remnant does not necessarily a small amount. A remnant of anything is what is left over- so if I bought 100 yds of fabric and I only used 1 yd- 99yds would be the remnant. Rev further stated which proves this theory that a numberless amount as the sand of the sea would be saved.
God has always preserved a remnant- those who are doing His will.
The error in Adventism is the hoplessness that its members feel, so that they do not even wish to try because really- who is so lucky? I've never had luck in my life; so it would be sad to know that salvation depends on the luck of the draw. |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 612
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 6:08 pm: | |
Hi Alnadean, so here is your first post. Welcome again! I will wait until you are ready to tell us your August 4th story. Would love to hear it!
You are so right about the 144,000. God doesn't leave out the details, but erring humans are really good at slipping right past them. I liked your comment about remnants. Very true!
Belva |
Gregcrom
Registered user
Username: Gregcrom
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 11:14 am: | |
The only Remnant I read about is in Revelation, and it does not mention a denomination.
The Remnant mentioned in the Bible.
Revelation
7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
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Alnadean
Registered user
Username: Alnadean
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 12:51 pm: | |
Hi Belva,
You will have to forgive me. I actually just happened upon this post as I was browsing today.
When I had the time to come back and tell my story, I realised that I could not find where I had posted. When I did find it some days later. I wrote what I could refer to as an epistle and as I came to the end everything just disappeared from the screen- I still don't know how that happened.
Anyway I made a second attempt and rigtht in the middle of it my computer lost the connection and when I signed back on naturally all the information was lost. I just kind of took it as a sign that maybe I was not supposed to do it or it wasn't the right time.
Anyway I can't remember the other people who were on that forum and I didn't get to thank them for all the kind words. It would be nice to repost there, but anyway I will be back later perhaps to attempt to tell you about it.We'll see.
Lots of love
Al-Nadean
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Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 266
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 1:24 pm: | |
 yep it may be that you're not to post it yet . . . or it may be that you are, but that someone or thing doesn't want you to? |
Mrsbrian3
Registered user
Username: Mrsbrian3
Post Number: 11
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 5:47 pm: | |
You're not alone in the disappearing text thing. I had that happen so many times that now I make sure I type my message in Word and then cut and paste it into the message box! Plus I need the spell-check |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 667
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 8:46 pm: | |
Al-Nadean, I am willing to wait until you feel confidently supported in sharing your story. I'll also pray that God will intervene on your behalf if that which is hampering is not of His will.
Belva |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1933
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 11:00 pm: | |
This sure is an interesting discussion on this thread. I remember being taught that the SDA church had the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and everyone else had error, only error, error all the way around. But, even at that only one-third of the SDA's would be saved of the SDA's who were alive to go through the time of trouble. It's an extremely depressing teaching. I have wondered if anyone has ever done a study comparing suvere depression among SDA's to a control group say of active Baptists, Methodists, Prespertarians, etc. I would find such a study interesting. The
JW's teach the 144,000 included only those who were already alive in 1914 and only those 144,000 are allowed to take communion and even then it is only done once per year. The JW's rent a big hall for this event and when the communion bread and wine are passed only those worthy are allowed to take it and most of the JW's that were already born by 1914 have died off by now so very few JW's get to take communion yet they sure do look forward to the annual big event. I was taught the 144,000 is 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. Frankly, that really isn't too interesting to me. What is interesting to me is how worked up the folks in those cults get about it. |
Lars
Registered user
Username: Lars
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 9:11 am: | |
Just another thought.
EGW used the term ěone in twentyî many times. It was often used to scare the brethren to show how far they were from putting forth the necessary effort to reach the required level of perfection necessary for ultimate salvation. The terminology was proclaimed over and over by pastors and SS teachers in an effort to LIFT UP the people!!!
Not One in Twenty Prepared
It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon. This half-and-half work is a constant denying of Christ, rather than a confessing of Christ. So many have brought into the church their own unsubdued spirit, unrefined; their spiritual taste is perverted by their own immoral, debasing corruptions, symbolizing the world in spirit, in heart, in purpose, confirming themselves in lustful practices, and are full of deception through and through in their professed Christian life. Living as sinners, claiming to be Christians! Those who claim to be Christians and will confess Christ should come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing, and be separate. . . . {Christian Service, p. 41}
So, how better to encourage the brethren and lead them to a higher relationship with Jesus Christ???
Early on in my SDA experience, I thoroughly insulted one of the local Elders by casually stating that with the knowledge of the ěone in twentyî statement, I didnít observe anyone in our little SDA church that qualified, except maybe one little elderly lady!!!
In another case, some 40 years ago, a conference colporteur director told me that the return of Jesus was certainly imminent. His rationale was that since there were 2 million SDA members on the books, and EGW having stated that 1 in 20 SDA would be saved, i.e., 2 million divided by 20 = 100,000; and there would be 44,000 saved from the rest of the people in the world, that added up to the ubiquitous 144,000, the total number that he believed Revelation stated would ultimately be saved.
I guess he was wrong.
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2640
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 12:44 pm: | |
Lars, welcomem to the forum! So glad you're here, and I look forward to hearing more of your story.
Amazing math that colporeur did. I had never thought about the "one in twenty" statments before--I remember hearing/reading them, though.
What discouragement!
Colleen |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 292
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 12:52 pm: | |
there's another statement of hers that sets the odds at 1 in 100. So if one doesn't work - surely you can manage some wiggle room with the other one!
Mary |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 986
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 2:10 pm: | |
What's amazing though is that they try to discard some of her statements, and yet they hold onto that statement which was obviously for that specific time right then--she didn't say that it would always be "one in twenty"! And she actually said "NOT one in twenty" in the above quote, anyway.
Jeremy |
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