| Author | Message | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2005 |
Belva, in speaking of your friend, you wrote the following... "One of her favorite quotes from EGW is that at the end of time there will be but two groups of people -- those who trust and have faith in Jesus, and those who do not." That is very interesting. I was just coming to the realization this evening that I dont really "trust" Jesus. That is hard and humiliating to admit, considering the leadership positions I have held, and the people that look up to me as a spiritual mentor. I just know that, for instance, when I pray for guidance in something, and ask God to work it out according to His plan, I cant seem to let it go completely! I continue to try to work things out, and stress about a situation, searching for the correct response. I think if I REALLY trusted Jesus, that I would be able to have peace about a situation. Intellectually, I know and believe that God is trustworthy. Emotionally, I have trouble trusting Jesus. Completely. Its like I think that I have to somehow help the situation out. Other times I am able or enabled to "let go and let God". There is a back and forth pull for me with this issue. Breakthroughs, and then back to old behavior. I am wondering if there is some sort of connection with being raised in a leaglistic enviornment and having difficulty trusting Jesus. I would be interested to know if fully and consistently trusting Jesus has been an issue with others who share a similar background. | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 139 Registered: 2-2005 |
Javagirl, I can so empathize with your difficulties in putting "total" trust in Jesus. I've struggled with this issue a great deal while my wife and I have been taking the steps to transition out of Adventistm over the past few months. What I've come to believe for myself is that in growing up in the SDA system, I never developed a full and accurate understanding of grace and the idea that Jesus has already done it ALL for me at the cross. There was always that element of my works (Sabbath, EGW directives, etc) that was required to complete my salvation, thus Jesus needed MY help to save myself. If Jesus was incapable of finishing the work of the atonement at the cross, then how could I fully trust Him in every aspect of my life? I couldn't. It was impossible. I still went to church but religion, in general, lacked much appeal to me because of the daunting task of working out my salvation and the difficulty I had manufacturing love for a God who required what seemed like unobtainable perfection from me in order to be saved, a God who was just waiting to blot me out of the book of life if I made a misstep. It wasn't until the last year or so when I began seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit in my study of SDA theology that my outlook began to change. As many of the Adventist "truths" began to melt away into irrelevance, and I began to realize that EGW's rules and regs have nothing to do with my salvation, this may sound strange but Jesus gained a lot more credibility with me. As I studied my Bible without the EGW lenses, I soon began to see that He really DID acomplish it ALL on the cross. He really was capable of being my Saviour, not just partly or mostly, but COMPLETELY -- once and for all. He really was worthy of all my praise, love, and trust, afterall. Don't get me wrong, I am not even close to being "perfect" in my ability to just let go of every worry or concern and give it over to Jesus. For me, it's been a daily experience of growing in His grace and learning to put my trust in Him a little more each day as His sovereignty is revealed. As I progressively grow in grace and trust in Christ, the true Sabbath rest that we have in Him becomes more and more apparent. Heretic | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2295 Registered: 12-2003  |
Javagirl, I also empathize with your experience. Control has always been an issue with me, and it always had its foundation in fear. Hereitc's experience really reflects mine as well. Jesus begins pointing out specific areas He wants me to surrender to Him, and as I learn to trust Him to work the issues out, I find that my confidence in Him increases. Truly, abandoning all attachment with EGW underlies my ability to trust Jesus. The more Adventism dissolves, the more God's sovereignty and trustworthiness comes into focus. Praying for you, Javagirl! Colleen | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2005 |
Heretic, you wrote "the idea that Jesus has already done it ALL for me at the cross..." I have always felt disappointed that I have not felt more emotion about the whole "cross" issue . I have expressed this to my (non SDA) christian friends, and they were shocked when I admitted I just wasnt all that moved by Easter Services etc. In reflecting on this, it makes sense that if nothing really changed at the cross, then why should it bring me to tears of gratitude etc. Colleen, I have really appreciated your responses to my posts. You have a way of getting to the heart of an issue. This morning, the song TRUST AND OBEY came to mind. I dont remembere all the words, but this part stuck out, "WHEN we walk with the Lord, in the light of his word (or will?) what a glory He sheds on our way. WHEN we do His good will, He abides with us still...." That describes the belief system I grew up with. ALWAYS a condition, ALWAYS my part coming first. I havent trusted my own prayers, but asked others to pray for me, because I believed that if I was not "doing His good will", in all areas of my life, then he was not abiding with me. Mess up, and He is "out of here." | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 268 Registered: 7-2004  |
Javagirl, I can relate very well to your experience, and I also think it is related to our programming of always having an active part to do that makes a positive outcome conditional. The reprogramming process is certainly a slow one! However, I think Abraham could also relate--think of how he tried to "help" God fulfill His promise by fathering Ishmael. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 107 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl: I, too am learning to trust in Jesus. It IS a process. I've had to learn to not intellectualize it too much because then it becomes intangible somehow. But the reality He provides is so profound...when I study His Word and am in deep prayer with him...when I stop to listen to what He has to say. These are things that are new to me...and have really helped me to start developing an absolute trust in Him. I agree that the pinnacle moment to starting to experience trust in Jesus was when I came to fully EXPERIENCE the Cross. Boy! do I know what you mean about Easter. I never even grasped it's significance until coming out of Adventism. I called this past Easter my 'first'. It really was. It was the first time I got it! What a joyful time it was too. Patria | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 597 Registered: 1-2003 |
Javagirl. Easter was no big deal as an SDA. In fact it was business as usual. The next to last Easter sermon I heard was on tithing. Easter at the Southern Baptist church I attend was an all out celebration event. A huge big deal. I also noticed that most of my SDA friends were refusing to watch the Passion of the Christ when it was so big. That movie changed my life. I left with my face so swollen I could barely see from crying. Did you see it Javagirl? | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 140 Registered: 2-2005 |
Easter weekend we went to two services, the SDA one on Saturday and an Easter service at a Christian church near our house on Sunday. In the SDA service, the sermon was about the resurrection, but the main point that I got out of it was that Jesus rested on the Sabbath in the tomb and so did the women that were supposed to be preparing his body in order to "observe the commandment." So again, it was a case of exalting the day over the Saviour. The word "Easter" was never uttered throughout the service. A couple of years ago on Easter weekend, someone had put up a flower arrangement in the baptistry in the shape of a cross. This offended a couple of the saints enough that they got up and walked out in protest. The Sunday service was like no other "Easter" service I'd ever been to. It was evident that this was an event that had been planned for quite some time, and was a celebration of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. They unabashedly preached the message of grace and the freedom we now enjoy because of the cross. The difference between the two services couldn't have been more stark. It made it so clear to see where the heart of the matter lay with each group and was particularly eye-opening to someone seeking answers at that time. This was my wife's first experience worshipping with "apostates" and she too was amazed at the obvious diffence in priorities. The resurrection was only THE most important even in world history! Heretic | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 574 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi, it's Belva again. Yes, indeed, the resurrection was the central most important event of all time. I was talking to my daughter today about our visit with my Adventist friend (S). She remarked at how frequently S made references to "Sister White said this" or "Sister White said that." My daughter's question was "Where were the references to Jesus? Where were the references to Scripture." There were none. It was interesting that we ended up having a discussion of "The Rapture" and I was not the one to bring it up. She said that she often hopes that there will be a rapture of the church because she lives in terror of having her head lopped off. This is the SDA way. Don't get me wrong, I know that Jesus said that we need to be faithful unto death and that he will give is a crown of life. I personally do not think that Jesus wanted his Church to be quaking in its boots. He loves the Church and died to ransom her. There will be, and currently are those who will die a martyr's death, but I don't think we should be constantly focussing on that aspect. Jesus also said that he had come that we might have life--not only life, but "abundant life." Living in a quasi state of fear is not life! Javagirl, you made the comment that it was hard for you to identify with the sacrifice that Jesus made for you. I know what you mean because I have been there, too. As long as the atonement remained incomplete, what is there to celebrate? I've said it before and I'll say it again. Jesus didn't come to this earth to be our example, he came to be our Savior. I'm not saying that we should not emulate Jesus, but there is so much more to Him than how he lived while he walked the earth. He is, was, and always will be God. He is a force in, out, and beyond time. SDAism seems to be willing to try to contain him inside of a small definition. No wonder it is so hard to trust him, particularly when we've all heard about how he is frowning because this, that, or that, or some other thing we have done AND that it is important what we do. I've rambled. Please forgive me. I truly hope what I've said makes sense because I'm not going to erase it--I'll just live with the consequences of having pressed the "post" button. What I'm saying is that the absolute truth about who Jesus is and why he came has me in a state of wonder, that he would go to that extent of love to win me, and every other willing person back from certain death. Thank you, Jesus. Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1725 Registered: 3-2004  |
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! BELVA. All we need is Jesus and He is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2298 Registered: 12-2003 |
Belva, what a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing your experience! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 598 Registered: 1-2003 |
Let's see...where do we get the idea God is ready to strike us down at any minute for sinning...maybe it was in the letter Ellen White sent her young son...That Jesus couldn't love disobedient children. (Paraphrased). If she truly thought that...she had no idea about Him at all. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 845 Registered: 10-2004  |
Not only did she write that letter to her son, she even published it as "inspired truth"!!! Jeremy |
