| Author |
Message |
Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |     |
This weekend is the Harvest Crusades. I am sure the SDA'S will be out in force , promoting their " truths" to the people coming and going into Angel Stadium. They were there last year handing out their propaganda!
Anyway, please pray that GOD would confuse them and hopefully draw thwm in to the stadium to hear GRACE and the TRUTH about salvation!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN & AMEN |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 202
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 10:52 pm: | |
Just for the record everyone, I know of a significant number of SDAs on the inside promoting Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of all of our lives.
I know nothing about those on the outside but do know about those on the inside who are there because they love their Savior and are not promoting SDAism. Again please don't lump everyone together.
I have no reason to doubt that there are some on the outside with various agendas but that is not where all of them are. Those on the inside serve in the same way as any other Christian believer "recruited" to talk to those who come forward and nothing more.
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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Bmorgan
Registered user
Username: Bmorgan
Post Number: 52
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 4:30 am: | |
Some years ago I coordinated a Homeschool Seminar in Texas, sponsored by Raymond and Dorothy Moore, SDa Educators, who were well known and received by the Evangelical christian community.
"Everyone loved Raymond"(and Dorothy) they were wonderful christians who loved the Lord. They were better known by the Evangelicals than Adventists because of the homeschool movement. Adventists leaders were afraid homeschooling would compete with their sda school system.
The irony is, the Moores' main objective was to validate EGW's authenticity as a prophet and prove her inspired messages on education and health were trues received from god.
As Adventists church members, we understood the Moores intent. Subtle evangelism among the christians through health and education. The Moores didn't have to tell us (even though they did) EWGism were written and filled their books and philosophy.
However, when a few in the christian community took issue with and queried some of the Moore's adventist theology, we were offended. I took it personally. I did not understand why the christians were against people like me and others who were also christian just sharing Christ's love.
I know there are different "breeds" or variations of adventists. Many of us then,(as there are many now)loved the Lord dearly and didn't think we were trying to promote "our truths".
Today, I look back with horror at our ignorance. The few Evangelical critics were right. Many of us adventists "did not know we did know" Jesus nor trusted Him as our Savior. We did not understand the simple gospel of salvation (how could we remain Adventist if we did).
We talked God's love and even attempted to share Jesus. Now I wonder as we wandered; were we even saved?! We were sweet people with very good intentions. However this is not what saves then or now. We have reason to be concern when adventists want to share their "truths". I make no apology for my opinion.
Newsflash! Dress adventist theology in whatever form, it is still old wine. You CANNOT put old wine in new skin. It contaminates.
Dunno,I share your concern and as you said,
"Anyway, please pray that GOD would confuse them and hopefully draw thwm in to the stadium to hear GRACE and the TRUTH about salvation !!!!!!!"
Count on me to join you.
Ebmorgan
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Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 520
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 7:01 am: | |
Good points Erma. The SDAs were outside passing out literature basically saying Christ is not enough, but you have to add Sabbath-keeping if you really want to follow Christ.
Richard, I'm sure there are true Christians who are SDAs and are evangelical as you say, but it is the official teachings of the SDA church that most of us who post on this site take issue with. Universalism is being taught on the left end of the spectrum, and EGW, IJ, and Sabbatarianism is being taught on the right side, but evangelical Adventism cannot survive in the long run in the backdrop of what is really being taught today in Adventism. This does not mean Richard that there are not good evangelical Christians like I believe you are.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2275
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 12:15 pm: | |
Bmorgan, your reactions as an Adventist to those who questioned the Moore's philosophy in the homeschooing books is so familiar. I had the same kinds of reactions when i heard criticisms of Adventism. I was an evangelical Adventist for at least 10 years before leaving. I wanted to follow Jesus, and prayed to know Him and follow Him--in fact, I believe that desire to honor Him is why I was finally open to the reality of the Bible. God literally called and brought me to Himself.
Yet even though I was actively seeking to live for Christ, I was offended if people said negative things about Adventism. I had personally put out of my mind the "crazy" arguments of conservative Adventism and instead was trying to live as the Bible said to live. The question I now ask is, why, if I was seeking to live as the Bble said to, was I defensive for Adventism?
The answer in my case is that I had not truly yet surrendered and was unwilling to completely let go of Adventism itself and of its key distinctive: the Sabbath. At the same time, I was not willing to call EGW a false prophet. Those cling-ons of mine were inextricably interwoven. I couldn't see the Sabbath clearly because I couldn't call EGW "false prophet". I could say she wasn't for us today; I could even say maybe she wasn't really a prophet, but I wasn't really sure.
That uncertainty kept me loyal to Adventism--and then, I loved my life as an Adventist. I loved having outlets to "work for God" and speak well of Him. I truly was sincere and believed I was a Christian like any other.
Was I saved? I believe I was. God had His hand on me because I wanted to know Him. But what would have happened if I had not continued to follow Him as He brought the reality of Adventism to me? I don't know. God's timing is everything; we can never second guess Him or another person.
I share you concern, Bmorgan and Dundo, with those who are outside (not necessarily mainstream Adventists but historic one) who pass out the confusing literature. The source of that literature is what all Adventists must own as their heritage: EGW. In fact, I have to own it as my own heritage.
Freedom comes when we finally are willing to renounce the heresies of our heritage. God saves us IN our bondage and sin; He is greater than any heresy. But He continus to lead us closer to Himself and deeper into obedience to the Spirit. There's no timetable for this process.
I just know that I pray that God will keep me from self-deception and continue to do in me what needs to be done.
Colleen |
Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 8:23 am: | |
lAST YEAR @ the Harvest Crusade, i reasoned from the scriptures with these SDA "evangelest". They were NOT there to promote the gospel of Jesus Christ. The speaker inside the stadium, ( Pastor Greg Laurie), was the one preaching and proclaiming the good news !
Now, as people were leaving the stadium, some who may have heard and accepted the TRUTH, for the first time, the SDA were handing them books and magazines promoting EGW and the SDA "truth".
Question, What would happen if I stood outside a Amazing Facts Seminar and handed out anti-SDA propaganda to the folks attending the event. AND told them MY church is the " true church, we have the end time message, the prophet, etc. And you must be a member in this movment or you will recieve the mark of the beast and the wrath of GOD!!!!!!
Yet, this is exactly what these folks are doing by handing out pro-SDA materials at these events!
Listen, i am not an X-SDA, my wife is! I am an X-LDS! As a mormon I was taught that the LDS are the " True" Church, we had the END TIMES LATTER DAY MESSAGE. WE HAD THE PROPHET, WE HAD "NEW" TRUTHS , "NEW REVELATIONS"
The SDA Church is decieving the people! They won't say what they really belive( just like the mormons), they will act like they are main line christian church, yet their teachings are false and do not line up with scripture!
Anywho, i am off my soapbox! PLEASE PRAY FOR THE HARVEST CRUSADE IN ANAHEIM CA THIS WEEKEND
G-D Bless you all in Yeshua |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 526
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 10:46 am: | |
Dundo, Amen to your post above. Since you are an ex-LDS, you are qualified to evaluate what the SDA church appears to you with its cult like similarities. All the cults are very similar. Remember that old saying, "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck".
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2284
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 10:48 am: | |
You are right, Dundo, we need to pray for the crusade in Anaheim and for God to protect and nurture those who accept Him.
Colleen |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 206
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 2:51 pm: | |
Dundo and Colleen I agree with both of you that we need to hold up in prayer those who accept Christ at Harvest Crusade. I'd be inside if it wasn't that there are 3 conferences I want to attend that weekend and I can't split myself that many ways. 
I'm personally upset at the tactics and ways of presenting things used by those SDAs there. (and I'm still a member)
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 4:42 pm: | |
Richard, you are STILL a mamber of the SDA Church?
I assume you are, ( what the LDS labels), an "inactive" member!
However, if you are an active member of the SDA Church, i have a question for you.
I have a friend who is Messianic Jew, ( Jew who accepted Christ as Messiah ) He attends Shabat on Fri evening, Sabbath on Sat. Eats a KOSHER diet, observes ALL the Jewish High Holy days and Holidays etc. Yes, he reads and speaks fluent Hebrew!
Now, this is my question to the SDA, sINCE MY FRIEND IS A "sabbath keeper", AND is looking forward to the second advent of Messiah Yeshua. Would not HE be considered a 7TH Day Adventist?
I asked a SDA pastor on 3ABN THIS QUESTION , but i won't tell what HIS answer was until I hear what yours is!!!!!!!
G-D Bless |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 208
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 11:59 pm: | |
Dundo,
I partial answer to your questions . . . my name is still on the membership list of the SDA church.
Concerning your other question, I've learned over the years to stay out of the business of assigning labels to others or to myself with one exception.
I'm a Christian who Christ is taking by the hand and leading step by step into a closer and more intimate relationship with Him, through the work of the Holy Spirit in my life and His death on the Cross.
Just a little background about me which some here know and some don't. My wife is Jewish and we have been married for 22+ years. She is not a Messianic Jew but a JEW.
Things have been difficult in many ways particularly when it comes to my commitment to Jesus Christ. We are in the midst of filing for a divorce for a number of reasons but my being a Christian is right up there at the top of the reasons. I'm quite familiar with Jewish worship and study and do on ocassion attend services with her. I'm not familar on a personal level with Messianic Jews.
I realize I didn't answer the question as you asked it but getting into a debate over the question is just not where I want to go. I'm interested in what the pastor said but it is a none issue to me.
Of my friends I'd say 50% are not Christian and of those who are Christian about 50% are not SDA. So you can seel that labels are not high on my list of concerns. I do hope "my label" as a Christian can be seen by both my Christian and nonChristian friends.
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 1:43 pm: | |
Richard, a " Messianic JEW", is a Jewish person by blood AND according to the requirments of Judism. These are the ones described in Romans chapter 11 Who have had the scales removed from their eyes! wAS BLIND BUT NOW i SEE!
Same way Saul was knocked off his horsr on the road to Damascus by Yeshua the Messiah! He then was "born again" a new creation, thus The apostle Paul called by Hashem (G-D) !
These belivers are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ! They have a Jewish perspective that us Gentiles do not have. Now, i want to make this clear, G-D has proclaimed that now there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female, We are ALL ONE in Christ!
However, i was NOT raised with a Jewish perspective as my Messianic Beliver freind, so i love to learn from him !
He has shown me that the new testament is so "Jewish", yet most Jews (Who do not know Yeshua as the Savior and Lord), won't read the gospels!!
Anyway, about the pastor on 3abn( I think his name was John Lomacang). I sent in a question on this show called house calls He read my question LIVE on the air.
It went something like this..........
Q. My freind is a Jewish person who has accepted the TRUTH of Jesus Christ as HIS Lord and Saviour.
He is a "sabbath keeper" and is looking foward to the second coming of Christ!! Would HE be considered a 7th day Adventist?
Answer from Pastor Lomacang on 3ABN: wELL, its great that your freind keeps the 7th day sabbath and has accepted Jesus as Saviour.
But, he needs to agree with the IG Santuary doctrine, the state of the dead, the Spirit of Prophecy, is HE baptised in the remnant church?
Your freind is on the right track, he needs to keep searching to "come into the truth", to " go ALL the way with Jesus". ( I am paraphrasing the answer from the pastor).
You see Richard, Adventism is MORE than accepting Christ and Keeping Saurday VS Sunday! The SDA do NOT reconize 7TH day Babtist, Messianic Jews AND other Sabbath keeping belivers in Christ!!!
To be part of the remnant ( The TRUE CHURCH), ONE must Accept the 27 fundemental belifes to be a member AND belive Ellen G. White and HER Writings ARE the "Spirit of Prophecy! Then, one MUST become a baptised member of the SDA Church after they "come into the truth" of EGW and HER end time remnant church!
As an Ex-LDS, I see a red flag when a particular Christian denomination
says they have the " corner " on "truth". They have " New Revelations","New light, etc! And that unless those from other Christian churches see these truths or revelations, they will be missing out on G-d's full blessing!
I think NOT!
bOTTOM LINE, IT'S ALL ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED!! 1Corinthians 15!
dundo
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Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 1:47 pm: | |
Richard, a " Messianic JEW", is a Jewish person by blood AND according to the requirments of Judism. These are the ones described in Romans chapter 11 Who have had the scales removed from their eyes! wAS BLIND BUT NOW i SEE!
Same way Saul was knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus by Yeshua the Messiah! He then was "born again" a new creation, thus The apostle Paul called by Hashem (G-D) !
These belivers are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ! They have a Jewish perspective that us Gentiles do not have. Now, i want to make this clear, G-D has proclaimed that now there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female, We are ALL ONE in Christ!
However, i was NOT raised with a Jewish perspective as my Messianic Beliver freind, so i love to learn from him !
He has shown me that the new testament is so "Jewish", yet most Jews (Who do not know Yeshua as the Savior and Lord), won't read the gospels!!
Anyway, about the pastor on 3abn( I think his name was John Lomacang). I sent in a question on this show called HOUSE CALLS. He read my question LIVE on the air.
It went something like this..........
Q. My freind is a Jewish person who has accepted the TRUTH of Jesus Christ as HIS Lord and Saviour.
He is a "sabbath keeper" and is looking foward to the second coming of Christ!! Would HE be considered a 7th day Adventist?
Answer from Pastor Lomacang on 3ABN: wELL, its great that your freind keeps the 7th day sabbath and has accepted Jesus as Saviour.
But, he needs to agree with the IG Santcuary doctrine, the state of the dead, the Spirit of Prophecy, is HE baptised in the remnant church?
Your freind is on the right track, he needs to keep searching to "come into the truth", to " go ALL the way with Jesus". ( I am paraphrasing the answer from the pastor).
You see Richard, Adventism is MORE than accepting Christ and Keeping Saurday VS Sunday! The SDA do NOT reconize 7TH day Babtist, Messianic Jews AND other Sabbath keeping belivers in Christ!!!
To be part of the remnant ( The TRUE CHURCH), ONE must Accept the 27 fundemental belifes to be a member AND belive Ellen G. White and HER Writings ARE the "Spirit of Prophecy! Then, one MUST become a baptised member of the SDA Church after they "come into the truth" of EGW and HER end time remnant church!
As an Ex-LDS, I see a red flag when a particular Christian denomination
says they have the " corner " on "truth". They have " New Revelations","New light, etc! And that unless those from other Christian churches see these truths or revelations, they will be missing out on G-d's full blessing!
I think NOT!
bOTTOM LINE, IT'S ALL ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED!! 1Corinthians 15!
dundo
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Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 210
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 1:49 pm: | |
dundo, no argument from me ! ! !
Your right, "bOTTOM LINE, IT'S ALL ABOUT JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED!! 1Corinthians 15!"
richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 888
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 2:25 pm: | |
Dundo, just curious.....
You mentioned that your background is not Messianic Judaism, but I notice that you frequently transliterate Ihsous as "Yeshua" instead of the more common "Jesus". I also note that, like modern Jewish folk, you treat the English word "God" in a way that is similar to how the Hebrews treated the tetragrammaton, YHWH (dropping the vowels).
I'm just curious if these Judaic traditions are influenced by your friend or another source. For the record, I'm asking out of true curiosity, not out of any objection to these customs.
Chris
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Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 963
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 2:49 pm: | |
Dundo, I have friends at church who have a Jewish son-in-law. They also say he has really opened the scriptures meaning up to them in a way they couldn't fully recognize from their gentile heritage. But I also know people who go too far and think you have to almost become Jewish to understand the Bible and appreciate God. I wonder if God just doesn't spend his day shaking his head at our ignorance sometimes. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 890
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 6:52 am: | |
I just want to second the observation that understanding the scriptures in the way that Jewish people do is extremely helpful to gentile Christians.
I've been studying through the OT, most recently Isaiah and Jeremiah. I never cease to be amazed at how much of what Jesus did and said was either fulfillment of, allussion to, a quote from, or a paraphrase of the OT.
Although the NT must interpret the OT, the NT cannot be fully appreciated without a solid in-depth understanding of the OT. Gentile Christians who neglect the OT prophets or who only read the prophets for eschatological clues are really missing out on a learning experience that illuminates the life and ministry of Christ.
Chris |
Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:25 pm: | |
Chris, NO i am not a Messianic Jew. However the Bible teaches i am grafted in to Israel through Christ! PRAZE HIM!
As for the way i write the words for God or Jesus (Yeshua, G-d), it's just comes natural as i study with my Messianc brother! It kinda rubs offf on me!
Anyway, he has an awesome study on the 2300 day prophecy in Daniel. It is so clear that the SDA have misinterpteted that scripture!!
If anyone wants me to share this just respond to this post. This teaching will blow your mind, yet is so simple , my 4 year old son can understand!!!
GOD BLESS, dundo |
Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:27 pm: | |
ps......the Harvest Crusade wuz AWESOME!!! The Angels in Heaven are rejoicing !!!!!!!! |
Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 144
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:48 pm: | |
Dundo,
I'd love to hear about your brother's study on the 2300 days of Daniel 8. Please share when you get the time.
Thanks,
Heretic |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1729
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:53 pm: | |
Dundo,
Praise God the Harvest Crusade was so AWESOME.
Why don't you put the study on 2300 days of Daniel on here, if it is not to long. If it is I want a copy of it.
Praise God for His AWESOMENESS.
Diana |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 579
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 9:08 am: | |
I, too, would like to see your brother's study of the 2300 days. Don't worry about its length--I think the subject matter justifies it being posted here. |
Dundo
Registered user
Username: Dundo
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 8:00 am: | |
Hello there,
Ihave been away, my Mom had open heart valve replacement surgery @ UCLA, sHE IS 72, please PRAY for a speedey recovery!
I will post the 2300 day study soon! PS,,,,,,HOW DO I POST A TOPIC on the main menu?
Dundo |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 902
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 3:22 pm: | |
Dundo, go to the main "DISCUSSION" section and go to the bottom of the page. Just under the very last topic (which is "Advent") there is a link called "Start New Thread."
Jeremy |
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