| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 788 Registered: 10-2004  |
I don't know if I've ever read that much of that particular site, but yes it looks like it has lots of good stuff on there! Jeremy | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005 |
well thank you for the info and the site, its a lot to digest. I have been looking into the old/new covenant issues for awhile, but the idea of the sabbath "for israel only" is new to me. Gotta read all those scriptures. And Windmotion, actually there is a lot about the sabbath that i love, especially the tradition and family time, and time out to study, read, serve, and fellowship with God and others. I do believe that God Blessed the Sabbath Day, and Hallowed it, according to the Genesis account, and i dont know if he ever "unblessed" it. I always thought the command to remember the sabbath day came from the time of creation Jeremy! I certainly feel different on the sabbath, perhaps just a cultual thing. Bb: I do love coffee!  Julie,I cannot even imagine the reaction of my family if i were to leave the church. They celebrated my "Coming Home" about 8 years ago.... Im just not going to worry about that right now. I do believe that if God convicts me of something, i will follow it despite the reaction of others. My husband threatened to leave me when i returned to God and church, and actually he did for awhile. He told me he didnt want to live with a Jesus Freak who would knock on all the neigbors doors. Smile. I told him I would be honored to be considered a Jesus Freak, and at the time, that was true. Its sad to even write this and realize how far away from that relationship with God I have fallen...I would love to find a Jesus Freak church! | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Javagirl: You have been on my mind and heart since I first saw your post from Friday evening. I am so glad that you have felt peace today. I and I know others, have been praying intensely for you. Jeremy: Well said! Lydell: Thank you for the reminder to keep Jesus our focus! I can always use that re-direction!! Javagirl: I want to speak to your shame that you mentioned. Oh dear lady: Jesus does not bring us to Him to make us feel shame. He brings us for conviction, not condemnation. I dare say that he is convicting you, but most assuredly not condemning you. THAT is the reason he died, because when you are HIS there is no condemnation! "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus," Romans 8:1 "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was JUSTIFICATION that brings life for all men." Romans 5:18 Justification: "justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified". That means that you are CLEARED of all past, present and future sins. That means that even if you're supposed to keep the Sabbath and don't because you don't 'read' God right for one reason or another, YOU'RE STILL SAVED. Javagirl: TRUST that Jesus has you firmly in His grasp...not loosely so if you do something He doesn't like, He'll drop you...NO! HE is holding on to YOU, not the other way around. So no matter how far away from Him you feel or how shamed or insecure , never forget that HE HOLDS YOU. Patria p.s. forgive my passion about this! I hope you're not sitting in your chair with hair blown back and cheeks taut to your ears!! | ||
| Wooliee Registered user Username: Wooliee Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005 |
Javagirl, My parents have not been happy since I told them we were going to a church on Sunday. My mom cried, and I could hear the disappointment in my dad's voice. This was all over the phone, because I recently moved far away. It has been very sad. My husband was not raised an Adventist, but he has always been willing to go to church with me. We had a wonderful church where we moved from, but where we moved to the SDA churches are much more conservative and actually depressing. My husband and I were invited to the church we are currently going to by one of our neighbors, and those people love Jesus. It is so wonderful to worship with people like that, but honestly that has been my Adventist experience too. I learned to love Jesus growing up as an Adventist. The pastor who baptized my parents is a godly man who taught about grace and having a relationship with Jesus, but he was run out of the church we attended by a group of bitter legalists. My parents became Adventist because they were convicted of the Sabbath, and then other things followed like not wearing any jewelry, not eating unclean meat, etc. They have always done what they thought was best in serving the Lord and I love them for that. My mom and I have talked many times about feeling guilty for not keeping the Sabbath perfectly, and how people in the church seem to get hung-up on silly things like jewelry. In all my years growing up in an Adventist church I have wondered what it could be like if people focused on Jesus alone and didnít worry about jewelry, what other people were eating, who raised their hands during song service, or if song service got a little too jazzy, and accepted other Christians without acting superior because of the Sabbath. I had the opportunity to work with two Christian women a couple of years ago, and it was an awesome experience sharing our faith and praying together. It was just the three of us in the office, and if one of us was having a difficult day or situation, we would stop and pray. My spiritual life grew in leaps and bounds because of those two special women. I wanted more of that, and I have been seeing Jesus in my life in many new and amazing ways since then. I know the Lord brought them into my life to soften my heart toward other Christians. In the past I have always had my Adventist guard up. Now I am willing to trust the Lord no matter what He is trying to teach me. An Adventist pastor told me this once: ìFaith is trusting God even when you donít understand where He is taking you.î It is difficult, and you may not understand Him right now, neither do I, but He is always there. He never leaves our side. Remember the song "Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus?" ...and the things of Earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace. When we take our eyes off of our problems, and look toward Jesus is when He can truly reveal Himself to us. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 789 Registered: 10-2004 |
Javagirl, here is a link to a great study on the Sabbath by a Christian Jew, including a section on Sabbath and Creation: http://www.ariel.org/mshabbat.html Genesis does say that God "rested" from all His work which He had done--but it doesn't say man rested. In fact, when it says God "rested" the Hebrew word simply means "ceased"--God ceased creating the world. The word for "Sabbath" is not used in Genesis at all (in fact, the word "Sabbath" isn't used until Exodus, chapter 16, which is the first time the Sabbath was commanded or given to people, and that was to the Jews). God's rest in Genesis was not a "Sabbath" rest. The word for Sabbath according to Strong's Concordance means "intermission." But God's ceasing from creating the world was not an "intermission;" in other words, He didn't continue creating the world on Sunday, Monday or any following day. The work was finished--the rest was eternal, not "once-a-week/weekly." And neither Adam nor Eve could have ceased creating the world, because they didn't create it. But, they were able to enjoy, and rest in, the finished work of their Creator, perpetually--until sin. And we can now enter into His rest again, through Jesus Christ. But there would have been no need for a weekly "rest" for Adam and Eve, since before the Fall/the Curse there was no labor for them to rest from. God bless, Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 25, 2005) | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 69 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy: Thanks for that link. I had not seen it before. Patria | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 937 Registered: 7-2003  |
Welcome Javagirl and Julie. I pray you find the peace that passes all understanding as you learn what scripture alone, in context, as intended means. This has been a very encouraging thread to read. Thanks to all who have posted. Beautiful stories. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2181 Registered: 12-2003  |
Javagirl, I so understand your feelings about Sabbath. I loved the Sabbath so much, and I used to say to people, "What do other people do without the Sabbath??!" I always looked forward to the time off, the time to read, the time to feel closer to God, the family activities, special lunches or lunch out (we were So. Cal Adventists!), etc. I loved the quite of Friday evening, the anticipation of going to church, seeing people, dressing up, and I loved the "excitement" of the sun dropping lower in the sky before SATURDAY NIGHT! There was absolutely nothing about Sabbath I resented or wished to change. I LOVED that 24-hour period. Richard and I wished for a long time that we could find a Sabbath church of former Adventists or non-legalistic Saturday-worshipers just because the habit and the family traditions were so strong. The Sabbath traditions were as wonderful and deeply loved as Christmas. I NEVER wanted to give it up. The time came for us, though, when we realized that Sabbath was standing between us and fully surrendering our security to Jesus. Those recurring doubts kept nagging us: what if ADventists are right? What if the Sabbath really is for all people for all time? What if we woiuld be thumbing our noses, figuratively, at Jesus by trampling on His day? We finally realized that as long as we cherished the day--even if we didn't go to church that day--we were hedging our bets. We weren't absolutely convinced that we could be completely loyal to Jesus without honoring Sabbath. AS we talked and prayed about the situation, we realized that Jesus assured us in His word that all we need is Him. If we were going to truly trust Him for our salvation, we had to let go of everything--even the Sabbath--or we would be considering both Jesus and the Sabbath as important to our salvation. We had to risk holding onto Jesus alone. It was a frightening yet thrilling realization. We had to throw ourselves on His mercy without ANYTHING else wedging into our relationships with Him. I will never forget the first week we deliberately "broke" the Sabbath without any mental hedging. We decided we were going to consider Sabbath to be Saturday from then on. We experienced a miracle. Every day of that week, we experienced the literal presence of Jesus with us. We quite literally felt Him with us. We felt His love, we felt love for Him--and all this was 'way more real and intense that it ever had been on Sabbath. All week we experienced Jesus in the way we always hoped to experience Him on Sabbath. The most amazing thing is that the reality of Jesus with us has never left. I cannot explain this except to say it is a gift, a confirmation from God. We did not fully experience the amazing reality of experiencing Jesus until we gave up his Shadowóthe Sabbathóin favor of Him alone. God will direct you, Javagirl--He will lead you, and He will provide and clarify and open doors for you to walk through in His time. He knows when and how He will lead you, and His sovereign plan already is in place. He loves you, and He will not leave you confused. Jesus is more reliable and more faithful and more comforting than anyone or anything else. He is all we need! Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 269 Registered: 7-2004  |
There was a recent discussion about the Sabbath on CARM on a different board than the SDA board. The poster had, what I thought was an excellent and concise response. This seemed like a good place to share it.
There were several other good responses in that same thread as well, although the other responses weren't nearly as short and to the point. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2005 |
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus," Romans 8:1 Well Colleen, I have heard that many times, just seems too good to be true??? There must be a "but" in there somewhere.....There seems to always be a "but" in my experience. Colleen, in response to your earlier statement.. I wanted to share with you what i read in my devortional book bf bed last nite..I read June 26, fully believing that is was June 26. You wrote: "TRUST that Jesus has you firmly in His grasp...not loosely so if you do something He doesn't like, He'll drop you...NO! HE is holding on to YOU, not the other way around. So no matter how far away from Him you feel or how shamed or insecure , never forget that HE HOLDS YOU." My devotional reading was: "Secure in His Grasp" You and I are on a great climb. The wall is high, and the stakes are higher. You took your fist step the day you confessed Christ as the Son of God. He gane you his harness--the Holy Spirit. In your hands he placed a rope---his Word. Your first steps were confident and strong, but with the journey came weariness, and with the height came fear. You lost your footing. You lost your focus. You lost your grip, and you fell. For a moment, which seemed like forever, you tumbled wildly. Our of control. Out of self-control. Disoriented. Dislodged. Falling. ( yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.....) But then the rope tightened, and the tumble ceased. You hung in the harness and found it to be strong. You grasped the rope and found it to be true. And though you cant see you guide, you know Him. You know He is strong. You know He is able to keep you from falling. ( am beginning to see some hope of this second part) Pretty amazing huh? Thanks for the links all, alot to digest | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 536 Registered: 7-2004 |
Once again, Colleen, thank you for your testimonial. I've experienced Jesus the same way since I gave up all of the other "ways to Jesus" that I had employed as an Adventist. You are blessed with the ability to put into word the heart of the experience of being freed by Grace. I, too, used to love the Sabbath and found it to be the last thing I would give up. I slowly let it go while the rest of my family simply abandoned it. It had deeper roots in me, and for my entire life I'd lived with the fear that if I didn't toe the line exactly I would be lost. Javagirl, your devotional perfectly described my experience of true Gospel Grace, and the overwhelming sense of security I felt the first time I realized that all of the holding on was being done by Jesus, and that he was holding onto me. Amazing security! I would never again trade the relationship I have now with Jesus for the "shadow relationship" that was formerly mine. | ||
| Wooliee Registered user Username: Wooliee Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005 |
Javagirl, I don't know about you, but I have been on information overload lately! My eyes even hurt from reading so much. Here is another link http://www.sdaoutreach.org/. I've been listening to their audio messages, and they are very helpful. My eyeballs appreciate it too! | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 71 Registered: 3-2005 |
God is so good! Javagirl and Julie...Hang on! You can do this! Julie: I feel for your eyeballs! I remember several times looking at the clock at 3 or 4 am while I was studying my way out, thinking, "I HAVE to go to bed just to close my eyes and give them rest". Though, my brain was often on overload too! I am still praying for your both! Have a fabulous Monday! Patria | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2005 |
p.s. I told my husband today that I WANT to be a Jesus Freak! Isn't it so cool how God puts these thoughts into our hearts seemingly at the same time! He knows how important connection is and these are ways He connects us. I LOVE that about Him! One other thing just quickly: I know some others would be better at this particular aspect of what you wrote, but they must be busy with church activities or something. Well, I'm just going to say this: Re-read Genesis 1 & 2 and see if you find the word "Sabbath" there or if you find any place that God told Adam and Eve to 'worship' on 'Sabbath'. (This isn't a trick, the Hebrew word regarding the seventh-day of creation is well represented in English). Patria | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2184 Registered: 12-2003 |
Also praying for you both, Julie, and Javagirl! Colleen | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005 |
Thanks Patriar, that is cool! I put a prayer request on the request post, and when I did that I remebered one thing. In my Bible study group, whenever I mentioned a concern, in the class or on the phone with a friend, They did not say "Ill be praying for you". They stopped immediately and prayed, on the phone, in the parking lot etc. That has been so powerful to me. I dont think I have EVER experienced that within the adventist church! WHY NOT! It is so powerful. Im going to remeber to do that too. Julie, or anyone else, my email address is 4excape@bellsouth.net. (What an irony, I chose this email address months ago when I joined an online spades league, and meant it as mental escape ) Would love to talk to you more, but dont want to flood this forum. Thanks so much all for your prayers, on this site and off. I really believe you when you say you are praying. How nice, I have been blessed by you all. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl: I know what you mean. I remember feeling very uncomfortable praying for people and would only occasionally remember to pray in private. It's a humbling experience to realize I'm a very young Christian with much to learn; prayer is top on the list! The Holy Spirit has been impressing me with a thought from a Bible study that I heard. I don't want a prayer life, I want a praying life! Dear Father: Thank you for Javagirl and Julie and their willingness to listen to you. You are speaking not only to them, but to us through them. Thank you for your passionate pursuit! You are amazing and I bow before you in awe. Patria | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2005 |
Julie, thing are happening fast for me! What about you? Oh I feel so alive and blessed and Loved! And I am thinking of you are praying, even if I cant do it online yet! Hugs to all, and thanks for your prayers. I am reading scripture daily. If your a music lover se my atlanta area post. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2233 Registered: 12-2003 |
Javagirl, reading Scripture daily is The Key to discovering what is REAL. It's the only source we have of absolute truth and a view of eternity that is really more real than any of us can see with our human eyes. I am thanking God for what He is doing in you, and I continue to pray for you and for you, too, Julie! Colleen | ||
| Wooliee Registered user Username: Wooliee Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2005 |
Javagirl: I'm glad to hear that you are doing well and that you are studying and learning. That is what I have been doing also, and it is amazing. I am not looking forward to how family and friends may react when I tell them about what I have learned, but I know that Jesus is true and faithful and that He will give me strength. I would much rather follow Him than anyone else, or any doctrine. I know too that wonderful things can happen when we step outside of our comfort zones and into faith. Thank you for your prayers. They mean a lot to me! I continue to keep you in mine. Thanks also to you Colleen for your prayers and the ministry of FAF! Julie |
