| Author | Message | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 490 Registered: 7-2004 |
My summer is almost a third of the way over. It is going by way too fast. I have so enjoyed the busy life with my children home once again but I rarely have time to check here on the forum for a hello I briefly have stopped in to read your thoughts. I hope everyone else's summer is going well. My friend "Lindylou" and I (along with Lindy's mom) have started the settling process of joining in fellowship with a community church here in Walla Walla. It has been a very good experience and we have both been very pleased with the way our kids have so easily become a part of a whole new way to worship. They all are actually very excited about going and meeting new friends who are open about their love for Jesus. It is so refreshing for them. Lindylou and I have joined the women's group in a Beth Moore Bible study entitled "Breaking Free". I know on another thread someone (Patriar, I think) said she was also in the study (has anyone else been through it, too?). Lindy and I have enjoyed it tremendously. It is my belief (and I think Lindylou would agree) that every former SDA should attend this study. It is all about the captivity of Isreal that the prophet Isaiah wrote about and relating it to us because our captivity today is anything that seperates us from receiving the blessings God wants us to have. Beth Moore's central theme, thus far in the study, is that in the release of our captivity through Christ, we will enjoy 5 benefits...We will KNOW and BELIEVE in God, we will glorify God, we will find satisfaction in God, we will experience God's peace and we will enjoy God's presence. For myself, I have determined that as a former SDA I do not have to have the "ugliness" of Adventism continue to haunt me and keep me in captivity. I am asking God to free me from my parent's condemnation, from my SDA "friends" who avoid me and the biggie...I want to be freed from the desire to have approval from those who do not understand what freedom in Christ is all about. I want to commit myself entirely to God; that He will set me free to be everything He planned. I do not want intimidation or fear to imprison me in any area. This is my prayer for all of you here on the forum and all those who have stepped away from Adventism but who feel isolated because of the loss of leaving so much behind. I pray all of us on this same journey will surrender every part of this journey and every concern of our hearts to the All-Powerful, All-Sufficient, All-Knowing Creator of heaven and earth. May we all "Let the peace of Christ rule in [our] hearts." (Col. 3:15). "The One Who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world" (1 John 4:4). GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dd: Me too!! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 459 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dd, Amen to the thoughts you have posted above. I also think of Phillipians 3, where Paul talks about giving up his legalistic righteousness of Judaism, and counts it all rubbish so that he can have the righteousness of Christ. Also, later in the same chapter, one of my favorite texts "forgetting those things which are behind, and pressing on toward the mark.." also expresses how we should look at our former SDA experience. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2191 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dd, thank you for sharing with us your recent move into a church with Lindy and your collective kids. Praise God! I echo your prayer that God will set us free from the pain and bondage of loss and misunderstanding. Truly He wastes nothing and redeems everything. I have found, to my amazement, that God has brought people into our family's lives that have filled the vacancies left by Adventist friends and family. While the people themsleves are NOT replaced, the deep feelings of loss and aloneness are softened by the love of people who are united by the Spirit. God is so faithful. Colleen | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2005 |
Dd Thanks for the encouragement. Sunday I visited a Community church for the first time and the first person I saw was someone I had done some volunteer work with!! I had a warm welcome, and am planning to join a women's study group, although I'm not sure yet what they are studying. I'll send my e-mail and you can send me your or phone number, so when I get to Walla Walla area I can look you all up--I won't be there until fall I don't think, although I have a brother in law who is quite ill. It really is amazing how we are so "stuck" it is so hard to move forward. I am having lunch with a dear SDA friend after the 4th because I want to tell her I have left--I think she will understand--so please pray that I can say things that will be encouraging to her!! my e-mail agree@wavecable.com | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 47 Registered: 7-2000 |
Dd, I did the Breaking Free study in 2000. I think that helped strengthened my walk out of legalism. Two years ago, my 18 year old daughter did the study with a group of her college girlfriends. They were one another's accountablity partners. Praise God! our children can be around other young people who are excited about their faith and worship of the Lord, Jesus Christ. One day at church, from the corner of my eyes, I saw our daughter lift up her hands in worship as we sang. I had chills run up and down my spine as I tried keeping my eyes straight ahead. Our daughter is not very demonstrative, especially when in public. It is comforting to know God turns ashes into beauty, for Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom so we don't have to live in captivity. | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2005 |
The Breaking Free study was done at my adventist church not long ago!  I did not attend, but it was well recieved by the womens sabbath school group. Purpose Driven Life was done churchwide, and some were upset about the fact that it wasnt an Adventist author, but it was done. Are you all not even FRIENDS anymore with your former SDA friends?? OH my. Cant imagine that at all. And i dont understand why. We are still people after all. WOW i feel defensive...Especially when all SDA's seemed lumped together. It seems in reading on this site that some dont even consider SDA's Christian. I am a Christian. I do believe in Christ and follow Him. Some raise hands in church in worship, even on the platform. There is a worship atmostphere, and I have personally felt the Holy Spirit there, as have others. I know many who love Jesus dearly, and serve him wholeheartedly. Formers in the area still come to weddings and showers and school programs etc., even to my sons baptism (He was baptised by a beloved SDA pastor, but not baptised into the adventist church, and did not sign anything, cuz we already had concerns about EGW two years ago...The youth are on fire, so inspiring to me! The older folks seem less enthusiatic to me. And for the most part, as I have said before, lately I havent felt spiritually fed there. Too many doctrinal issues just dont make sense. But I get creeped out when people call SDAs a cult. Guess there are different intrepretations even of that, but I almost sense a delight from posts on this forum when people point out yet another reason why it is a Cult. (not particularly this thread) I dont get a sense of sadness for the ones there,(with a few exceptions) just self validation for leaving or something. Im sure most will protest this, but try to read back on alot of the threads as a new member to this site, and you will see what I mean I think. I am free to leave, you were free to leave. We dont worship a leader other than Christ. (although i do know about the prophet position of EGW and dont agree at all, but she is not worshipped) And I will likely become a "former". My church, and my friend's SDA churches around the country, are seemingly becomming more divided on the EGW position. The supporters are becomming more vocal, the others dont want anything to do with EGW. I wonder what will happen to the SDA church? Im still looking for a different place to worship in my area....And I am grateful for all your prayers. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 258 Registered: 7-2004  |
Javagirl said:
As a former SDA, we'd certainly like to continue friendship with our friends who have remained SDA. We used to make more efforts, but it seems to be mostly one-sided. With 99.99% of them, including family, it's a wall of silence because everyone is uncomfortable that we have left "the truth." That uncomfortableness probably goes both ways. I would like to feel free to discuss with any of them our journey and how things currently are, but it's too awkward. If even one would actually ask us what specifically caused us to leave or how we currently believe, I'd be more than happy to share--but it seems they're afraid they'll be contaminated, and I don't want to come across as pushy. Besides, all of our SDA friends are between 30 minutes and 1 hour away from us and the main time we used to see anyone was when we went to the SDA church. The fact is, during the year before we left--our contemplation time--I had a lot of meaningful discussions with several SDA friends. Somehow it was okay and safe to listen to me "cross the line" as long as I was still an SDA. Also during the first several weeks of leaving, there were a few people interested in knowing why, but I guess now they think they know the whole story and it's end of discussion. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 792 Registered: 10-2004  |
Javagirl, the reason why many of us who have left are no longer friends with SDA friends is usually simply because we have been shunned by our friends and even family members. (Which is one of the marks of a cult, by the way.) This sounds like it may be hard for you to believe right now, but it really is true. I think almost all of us on this forum have experienced this shunning of friends/family--it's been discussed quite a bit in the past on this forum. You mention that we were free to leave. But not really. We had a spiritual hold on us, we were under EGW's hold, and we could not, we were unable to, listen to or believe anything that contradicted EGW until the Holy Spirit removed the veil (2 Corinthians 3) and opened our eyes. Again, many others on here can testify to this. The reason I personally believe that Seventh-day Adventism is a cult, is because they fit all of the classic/traditional marks of a cult. What you said about the SDA congregations becoming more divided over EGW is interesting. You ask what will happen to the SDA church. Well, at their GC Session coming up soon the official church is planning to re-affirm their belief in EGW once again. This is the direction they have been heading and continue to head. In 2002 the SDA President Jan Paulsen said that no doctrines of the SDAs have changed (including the Investigative Judgment) and that anyone who thinks they have, is mistaken. He also said that he would lose his salvation if he left the SDA church! The things I mentioned above are indeed cultic. One popular Christian formula for cults is the following:
1. The SDA church doesn't believe in Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone). Their official 27 Fundamental Beliefs (belief #17) state that EGW's writings are prophetic and that they are a "continuing and authoritative source of truth." They add to Scripture. 2. Regarding Christ and the Godhead, there is a wide variety, everything from the "historical"/EGW-believing SDAs teaching that Jesus is not God/eternal and/or that the Holy Spirit isn't a person to "traditional"/EGW-believing SDAs teaching that Jesus has a sinful human nature and did not complete the atonement on the cross, to the liberal SDAs teaching that God is not omnipotent or omniscient and doesn't know the future and/or that Christ did not atone for our sins on the cross, or even a lot of "mainstream" SDAs teaching tri-theism, etc. Then there is the whole Jesus being Michael the Archangel doctrine left over from their Arian/anti-trinitarian roots. And also the whole "Great Controversy" theme which in reality lowers Jesus and exalts Satan and makes them "equals." 3. This is very obvious--there are a variety of false gospels taught within SDAism, usually in the form of faith + works = salvation, rather than the Biblical formula of faith = salvation + works. 4. The SDA church is divisive/exclusive in the sense that they teach that they are the one true "Remnant Church" and other churches are "Babylon/apostate." They also try to get members to be loyal to the organization above all else. These are the main trademarks of a cult. There are also other signs that a church is a cult, some of which I mentioned above. Please understand, Javagirl, we aren't just trying to "label" the SDA church as a "cult" as validation or out of bitterness--these are our heartfelt convictions based on our experience in the church, leaving the church, their doctrines, etc. God bless, Jeremy P.S. Here is a list with 14 marks of a cult, and amazingly the SDA church fits each and every one of them: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/marksof.htm (Message edited by jeremy on June 27, 2005) | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 943 Registered: 7-2003  |
Javagirl, I appreciate your honesty in that defensiveness. In all honesty, that's the same way I have felt when I have read pro-SDA sites about us "apostates", "babylon", "Sundaykeepers", false Christians and some of the other "terms of endearment" they use to describe us "non-SDAs". It IS hard when people generalize and use labels. The SDA that brought me "here" would not come to my son's baptism at my church. He would never dream of worshipping with non-SDAs ... unless they were in the SDA religion. I haven't been SDA, and in all reality, my exposure is very limited to his family and a few friends, but I have been in on conversations (forgetting I was a "non", I presume) where they have openly ridiculed traditions at another church (a lutheran service, I believe). Then they remembered me, and quickly changed the subject. When I think of the SDA's family I know, and there are two pastors in the mix, I honestly don't know if they're Christians. They are so focused on the sabbath, they don't care about much else. One has point blank condemned me saying "you think you need to hear the gospel at every church service". After much time watching him and his family, as nice and religious as they are, I don't know that they understand the gospel at all. I have mormon friends who are the cleanest cut people I've ever met...but they're lost. No longer do I presume that because someone goes to a church that they are saved. Even if they're a card-carrying baptized member. See, the SDAs I know, don't really consider me Christian because I've refused to accept EGW, the sabbath and their "eternal" gospel. I've said on here in the past, because I didn't grow up SDA, and have never been SDA, I don't have a lot of the warm fuzzy memories of SDAs or the church. My experience has been completely negative. I hope that I haven't said anything that has offended you or caused you to feel defensive. I can only speak from where I've been and what I've seen ... I think that's what each of us does. And if you hang around long enough, along with the occasional whining and complaining, you will find compassion and love for SDAs. But it's hard to love people who are now telling you you are lost for eternity. My ex's SIL told me that B could never leave the SDA church, that the family would never support it. Unfortunately a year and a half after I got involved, the family "came clean" when I went over to see the SIL because of something B had done I just didn't understand. ONLY then, did they let me know the great divide that existed between "them" (the true Christians) and "us". Even at that, I continued to try to give them the benefit of the doubt and show them "by my fruits", the work of the Holy Spirit in my life. ALL they cared about was that I didn't keep the sabbath, rejected EGW, ridiculed their health message (shoot me, please), and wouldn't become "one of them". I hope no one ever judges you because of the name over the door of the church you attend, or the day of the week you choose to participate in corporate worship. I have been touched by the compassion on here for SDAs...especially when someone has died, or there was a college fire, etc. Many on here have experienced significant personal rejection from family and friends. B's SIL gave up her "best friend" (as she told me) because she left the SDA religion. His aunts (3 of them) told me I was not a part of their religion ... so, clearly being "christian" wasn't good enough for them. Again, these are just my experiences. I hope you are able to keep all your friends and family close regardless of where you worship. I think everyone here would wish that for themselves, as for you. I personally do calls SDAs a cult because of a number of factors including: EGW, her writings, their 'additions" (aka progressive revelation) which extends beyond scripture, the fact you have to be one of them to be part of the "true" church, those not members are not "true" Christians, their view of scripture and its inerrancy, their "gospel" as compared with scripture... Others use different definitions to define a cult, and to them SDAs are just a sect or subsection of Christianity. There are threads where you could find more discussion about that label. Please remember that most here are in a healing process and anger is part of any grieving/healing process. I'm so sorry if anything I have said is perceived as insensitive. But it is my honest opinion/experience/feelings...and I try not to mislead anyone in that regard, even when I'm wrong (and there are posts on here that highlight that as well ). I'm trying to learn compassion for them. There are some one here who are very moving with their compassion. Please forgive me as I admit that is an area I struggle...it developed BECAUSE of the same defensivenss you mention. I didn't know I was a "non" for a long time. Eventually even B has said they (his family/friends) "tolerate" me "pretty well". What a ringing endorsement, eh? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 793 Registered: 10-2004 |
I just knew there was something I was leaving out in my above post, Melissa! That is one other thing--the SDA church does not teach that the Bible is inerrant, or that it is verbally inspired. They teach that the "thoughts" are inspired ("thought inspiration") but NOT the words ("verbal inspiration"). Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 27, 2005) | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl: I can only speak for myself and am really glad that you posted what you did. I remember a time, not very long ago, when I felt exactly as you voiced. There are a wide variety of 'tendencies' within Adventism. Some tend toward legalism, some tend toward liberalism. There really is a seemingly VAST spectrum of beliefs within the SDA church. I would only suggest this: If questioned, most of your friends and family would say they reject everything but the Sabbath. The problem with even that is that it subtracts from Christ's substitutionary atonement and finished sacrifice. The way I see it: You can't say we are saved by grace through faith, AND say you have to keep the Sabbath to be saved. It seems you have discovered that too. I have experienced the loss of quite a few friends; though my best friend is still inside the SDA church. My family (most of them) won't talk about it with me. I call it the elephant in the room. They did talk about it with me until I officially left the church. It's a remarkable experience. At times, it seems surreal; I suppose in part because it's still pretty new to me. Regarding the posts that seem to affirm our journeys out of Adventism. I think you're partially right (remember I am only speaking for myself). I think the need to KNOW that we did the right thing goes on. I mean, intellectually I know, but there are times I have to go straight into the Word because that's the ONLY place for peace. But there is this amazing "I cannot believe this" feeling still very much in effect for me when I discover yet another problem with SDAism or more importantly, another Truth that was twisted around to match EGW's teaching of it. This is probably why I come across so strongly at times. The pull of the SDA church is still very strong. I think that's part of what Jeremy's talking about: The Body of Christ isn't a single church or denomination; it is inclusive of ALL who are Christians (including Christians in the SDA church). All that being said, the 'official' SDA stance is still that EGW is not only inspired, but authoratative. And point in fact, she supercedes the Bible, because on the points she disagrees, she wins out. The speech given by Jan Paulsen in 2002 is quite enlightening and alarming. It was one of the final pushes for our leaving. We kept living in a world where we just put our blinders on and kept worshipping on Sabbath. Anyway, I've gotten way too wordy and I pray that I have not offended. I KNOW I KNOW!! Being offensive is more important than hiding the Truth; but I think Javagirl: you're getting a firm hold on the Truth so I don't want to preach to the choir. But just know that I truly AM praying for you. In Christ, Patria | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 538 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Javagirl, Please forgive us for any bragging or strutting that you may perceive about our new walk with Jesus. For some of us, it was the first time we ever really came into the presence of the Saviour and we found him to be wonderful, but not what we had expected him to be. As someone has already mentioned, perhaps on this thread or somewhere else, we thought he was watching us to see if he could catch us doing wrong. Then we met him, I mean really met him, and found out that he was waiting for us to quiet down enough so he could tell us that he'd done right enough for us, and had provided that cloak of righteousness for us to wear, and he assures us that it is more than adequate to cover up our inadequacies. I don't like to confront people and will try to soft-pedal things with my friends because I don't like to offend. After I found Jesus outside of SDAism (I met Jesus while I was SDA, but really came to appreciate him so much better once I moved beyond SDAism) my friends who were still SDA seemed to be threatened by me, treated me like I had some awful virus and they didn't want to catch it. I'd try to share information with them, and I had one friend send back the books unread. She said she tried to read it but she felt like Satan was trying to trick her so she couldn't finish it. Another time she said that I had taken "the easy way" because I wanted to wear makeup and jewelry. Now she won't have anything at all to do with me because she doesn't want her two boys exposed to me--I might mislead them. These were boys I used to care for when they were babies, and I'd never hurt them. That's called shunning. I also have the blessing of having a couple of SDA friends who still love me even though I have moved away from "the truth" as they know it. We have agreed to agree on the love side of faith, and to not agree on the other points. All I know is that the true joy of belonging to Jesus, knowing how completely dependent upon him that I am, is very liberating. I never really trusted myself to do things up right, so knowing that he's not expecting me to be a paragon of perfection has allowed me to simply throw the weight of my salvation on him. The odd thing is that I'm not tempted by the things that I have formerly been tempted by. I guess that is a victory, but it certainly isn't mine, so it must belong to Jesus. In fact, I have determined that I will stop needless efforts at perfection and simply let Jesus do with me what he wills. All he requires of me is that I put on the armor of God and stand (figuratively). And when I see prophecy fulfilling around me Jesus has said that I should look up because my redemption is drawing near. That redemption is mine already, the price paid a long time ago, and I will soon experience the reality of it. Praise the Lord! I owe it all to Jesus! Belva | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi all, This morning I woke up and was brought to tears with the thought and EXPERIENCE that "Jesus loves me". While drinking coffee...lol. I have had that experience before several times, and then it fades when all the "conditional" ideas crop up. The intellectual part stays, but its like there is this filter it passes thru, and the joy and peace fade away. I pray it doesnt leave me this time. Raven, Im sorry for your experience. I hope I am not shunning formers (I know of 3), have been talking to one, and plan to contact the others. Jeremy, thanks for responding I agree at least mostly with points 1,3,and 4. I didnt understand 2 at all! Dont adventists teach the trinity, and it that thought of as a false belief? Melissa, my husband is not SDA, although he gives money and does more work around the church then most men there! He has felt much of what you say. My dad even told him when he asked to marry me that one day I would return to Adventism, because of how I was raised. Husband later told me he almost bolted at that point! Patria, your quote "All I know is that the true joy of belonging to Jesus, knowing how completely dependent upon him that I am, is very liberating." How I long for that liberation. I will look for that Paulson speech. Ive never heard an adventist say EGW supersedes the Bible. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl: How true. It was Belvalew that had the insight of completely belonging to Jesus and how liberating that is. It is a wonder isn't it? Here is the link to Jan Paulsen's talk. http://www.adventistreview.org/2002-1524/story3.html. Also, here is another link pointing out the really troubling aspects of that speech. http://www.sdaoutreach.org/alarmingcomments_may2002.cfm I pray that your peace will continue. Like I said, there are times when having my nose in the Word is the only time I feel that peace you're speaking of! As far as Ellen White superceding the Bible, you're right. No Adventist (that I've met either) will ever say it, and truly most think they don't believe it. But the truth is, she 'wins' the battles with the Bible. But in other places, she claimed to be on par with the Bible and at times even claimed to have higher authority than the Bible prophets. I think a lot of SDAs do have trouble with EGW and some have outright rejected her in their thinking. But the problem is, as I imagine you're finding, her teachings have permeated every single story and Truth from the Bible. I have often had to search something out because I'm not sure if it's EGW teaching or Biblical teaching. For instance: Adam and Eve were together when she ate the fruit. Here's what I always believed. She left his side to eat the apple. I think the apple comes from Uncle Arther Maxwell's books and the idea that Eve wandered away from Adam is from EGW directly. This is one of many many instances where she has superceded the Bible. Unfortunately it's not always about 'little' things like that but about salvific issues such as the Sabbath. Patria | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2195 Registered: 12-2003 |
Javagirl, I so completely understand your roller-coaster feelings and even resentment. I can only echo what's been said above; I did not leave my Adventist friends; they quit responding to me. I had one really treaured friend who told me, about 2 or 3 years ago, that she couldn't invite me to her daughter's baby shower because she "couldn't eat" with me. I though I heard her wrong, but I heard her right. She hasn't talked to me since that day--and I've persisted in reaching out (although the out-reaches have now become reduced to contact at Christmasówhich is not reciprocated). Also like those above,I had no lack of friends and acquaintances willing to ask questions, discuss issues, and hear me out as I was in the process of leaving. Once I was gone, however, the contacts dried up. I believe this pulling away is fear. If I were to apostatize and throw myself "into the world", many of these people would retain some modicum of contact with me (and feel as if they were doing something related to evangelism). When one leaves for the sake of the gospel and the Person of Jesus, however, that is felt as a threat to them. I know they would not be able to articulate that response, but fear really is what underlies their "shunning". Most Adventist have at least a smidgen of doubt. When someone really meets Jesus, that is seen as divisive, and they can't risk what it could mean for themselves. Stay grounded in God's word, Javagirl. As Patria said, sometimes having one's "nose in the Word" really is the only way to experience peace. I've discovered that the Bible is really a living book when we're finally able to allow the Holy Spirit to teach us through it! I am praying for you, Javagirl. Melissa, I just wanted to say that I continue to pray for you, too--but I know you know that. Thank you so much for being open and vulnerable with us and for allowing us to help bear the confusion and hurt you've experienced as a direct or indeirct result of Adventism. We love you. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 794 Registered: 10-2004 |
Javagirl, I'll see if I can explain better about the SDA belief about the Godhead, etc. It's kind of confusing. When the SDA church started off, they did not believe in the Trinity. They openly taught against it. They believed that Jesus was not eternally God. EGW teaches this concept throughout her writings (a lot of times teaching that "Christ" was an angel who was "exalted" to the position of being "equal" with "God"). The SDA statement of beliefs did not include the Trinity at all until 1931, and that did not become official until 1946. They still did not say that Jesus is eternal until 1980. The old SDA hymnal (pre-1985) even changed the words of hymns to take out references to the Trintiy, Jesus being fully God, etc. There are even some hymns in the current (1985) SDA hymnal which are still changed from the original lyrics, in these areas. Some SDAs (usually calling themselves "Historical Adventists") still deny the Trinity, and still do not believe that Jesus is eternally God, and some deny that the Holy Spirit is a person (as did EGW at times, in her writings). They also, along with traditional Adventists, teach that Jesus has a sinful human nature. But even with their current, orthodox-sounding, statement of beliefs from 1980, there are many "mainstream Adventists" (including the Adventist Review) who don't teach the Biblical, classic orthodox view of the Trinity, but instead teach tri-theism, like the Mormons do. They teach that there are three Divine Beings who are simply one in purpose, etc., rather than the orthodox view that God is three Persons in One Being. And then there are also liberal SDAs, (such as Richard Rice, Dan Smith, etc.) who teach that God is not omnipotent, and that He is not omniscient and doesn't know the future. So, like I said, there is a wide variety of beliefs regarding the Godhead, within SDAism! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 28, 2005) | ||
| Jan Registered user Username: Jan Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2005 |
The "Breaking Free" (Isaiah) Bible study changed my life. Beth Moore does women a favor by digging deep into the original Hebrew & Greek, etc. I would also recommend these other studies by her: To Live Is Christ (study of Paul) Believing God Living Beyond Yourself (Fruit of the Spirit) Jesus, the One and Only I offered to teach Breaking Free for a women's SDA study but was told by a pastor that (1) it would be hard to get women there and (2) they probably wouldn't do the homework. Since I loved the study and couldn't wait to do the homework, I was quite surprised by that response. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 82 Registered: 3-2005 |
Javagirl: I just realized I deleted a sentence in my last post, and then forgot to rephrase it as planned. I was going to point out that most Adventists will bring up the fact that 'even EGW said she was the lesser light'; then I went on to expound that she did say that at one time, but then other times intimated that she was on par or greater than Bible prophets. (Sorry about the confusion) Jeremy: Thank you for that information regarding the early church's Arian (anti-Trinitarian) roots. This knowledge is very new to me and so didn't have those details. Patria | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2003 |
I participated the the "Believing God" study at church this past spring. One of the main topics that has really helped me was: "Believing You Are Who God Says You Are." From Ephesians 1:3-7 I am BLESSED. (v.3) I am CHOSEN. (v.4) I am ADOPTED. (V. 5) I am ACCEPTED in the beloved. (v. 6) I am REDEEMED. (V.7) I am FORGIVEN. (v. 7) I am LOVED. No matter what condemnation others give me or even the condemnation I give to myself, this reminds me what God thinks of me. Thank you, Jesus!! |
