| Author |
Message |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 862
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 8:10 am: |     |
For what it's worth, salvation is normally described as having three temporal aspects; past, present, and future.
Jesus has saved us from the penalty of sin (past - Justification).
Jesus is saving us from the power of sin (present - Sanctification).
Jesus will save us from the presence of sin (future - Glorification).
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2209
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 11:24 am: | |
Loneviking, Dale is arranging for most of the people being interviewed. The main host is a former WWCG member who became a Christian. Dale said this man contacted him a couple years ago or so because an Adventist was calling the show and giving him grief over the Sabbath on the air. He knew that Dale had Sabbath info (probably his WWCG background at work--Sabbath in Crisis was instrumental in the WWCG abandoing its cultic beliefs), and Dale has been on the station several times over the past few years.
I pointed out to Dale that VOP airs right after the morning show (thanks for the tip, Chris!).
I don't know all the people who will be interveiwed. Some are: Walter Rea (plagiarism), Verle Streifling (Clear Word Bible), Kenneth Brantley (5th generation SDA and making/breaking connections), Janice Brantley (moving from historic SDA to gospel Christian), etc. Others include Mark Martin, Chris Lee, Dennis Fischer (how leaving Adventism affected his Christian experience), Lydell Oltmans (what a person leaving Adventism needs from the Christian community), myself (soul sleep/human spirit), and more.
Dale emailed last night and said that the station will edit together all the interveiws that happen from June 27 onward so we can have the resource. (They record over all programming over a week old unless otherwise directed not to, so Dale's initial interview on June 20 will be missing.)
Today is the preliminary day of prayer/consecration for the GC. Let's remember to pray daily for God's will and truth to be revealed and for hearts to be opened to reality.
Colleen |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 589
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 12:47 pm: | |
So as of today, the highest authority on earth is in session? Ellen's words, not mine. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 800
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 1:50 pm: | |
Actually, she said the highest authority GOD has on earth. (Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.)
Jeremy |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 945
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 2:29 pm: | |
On the original topic of argumentativeness, divisiveness, being right...do you find these attiudes extend into other areas of life as well? For example, B fits perfectly everything described above. He frequently has told me (back when we still had discussions) that if I would just study scripture for what it "REALLY" said, I would beleive his way. But I've also noticed that in every other area of life. And others notice it too. Because we work together, others ask me about it sometimes. If it is an area he considers himself "knowledgeable", he is always right. And it is so hard to keep any kind of communication, even at a professional level. So, with the conversation on this thread, I've begun to wonder if you've noticed this trait in areas beyond religious discussion, or it could be B is just has that trait in general. |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 2:57 pm: | |
Colleen:
Verle Streifling? Clear Word (whatever it is...I refuse to call it a Bible). Is he a former now?
Patria |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 90
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 3:25 pm: | |
Oh Chris, I was thinking that he was talking about an SDA addition, because my Sunday School teacher was saying "two" aspects.
But I just remember the feeling while hearing them "hash it out" that the boy was trying to prove him wrong and it didn't set right with me. But those 3 aspects sound right to me.
Thanks.
Bb |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 473
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 5:10 pm: | |
Melissa,
You ask an interesting question. I think it is just human nature. If we think we are an expert in an area, our tendency is to want to be right and win an argument. With those of us who were thoroughly catechized into SDA mindset, we were brainwashed into the fact that only we had the "Truth". We were actually taught to feel sorry for the other denominations, as they were probably going to be lost. We were taught that if we didn't tell others about the Sabbath, then we might be held responsible. Praise God to be delivered from that mindset, and to see some of those that taught me that also delivered.
But Ric made an excellent point above. Now that we have become formers, do we then have the tendency to become "holier than thou" and look down on those who we would like to see come to the faith that we have discovered? This is where that old human nature is still present. I spend a lot of time reading theological blogs. You see the Calvinists and Arminians tearing each other apart--they accuse each other of preaching a different gospel! That "old man" nature that Paul talks about in Romans 7 is alive in many theological circles, and not just Adventism. But it is easy when you have been brought up in a system like Adventism, and then are delivered out of it, to then become so zealous for attacking the former system, that we can have a tendency to become like them as Ric pointed out above. I also think there should be a difference in the way we approach individuals who are caught up in a false system of belief vs. the way we approach the organizations that are propagating the deceptions. Luther was vicious when he attacked the Papacy, but with one on one discussions, he was likely more congenial.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2216
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 7:40 pm: | |
Patria, Streifling is a former, indeed. Do you know him?
Colleen |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 90
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 12:06 am: | |
Colleen:
No I don't know him. I'm just shocked. I am curious what caused him to be a part of the Clear Word, and then 'apostacize'. I saw his name on one of the former's websites and could NOT place it until I saw it here.
Praise God! whatever the reason.
Patria |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 260
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 4:04 am: | |
I wonder if Verle Streifling is exposing information about the Clear Word in the interview, but that doesn't mean he previously was specifically a part of its beginnings or endorsement. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2222
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 9:36 am: | |
You're right, Raven. He had nothing to do with the Clear Word, but he has written articles showing how its wording is far distant from the true meaning of the Greek and Hebrew text--to say nothing of how EGW's interpretations are inserted.
Streifling wrote an intersting article several years ago that showed how Blanco's paraphrase deliberately reduces the divinity of Jesus in the text of the Clear Word. Passages that clearly identify Jesus as divine, he alters subtley to remove that clear connotation. The Clear Word really is in line with the growing movement within Adventism (documented, interestingly, by SDA historian George Knight) to return to the early non-Trinitarian view of God held by the Adventist pioneers.
There's so much really sinsiter stuff (like this anti-Trinitarian movement among many, reinforcing EGW, etc.) going on inside the church that the average person doesn't really see because it's done so subtley, and also because most members don't really know the true history of their revered pioneers.
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1867
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:41 am: | |
Yes, I have noticed when any discussion or even a reference to something being in accordance with God or being a violation of what is right comes up with my SDA acquaintences the SDA's tend to become very uncomfortable. An example that redily comes to mind is the counsil of Jesus to feed the poor, heal the sick, give clothes to the needy, visit those in prison and so on. In my community are several multi-denominational organizations that do all of these things, including a home for women who are pregnant and have no where else to trun, these great things are 100% supported by voluntary donations and are staffed by volunteers. If I point out that the SDA's in my area are not involved in any way with any of these groups I am just told that the SDA's prefer to support their own charities and not get involved in the local communities. It seems to cause deviseness, yes. |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 92
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 5:59 pm: | |
Colleen and Raven:
THANK YOU for clearing that up. Somehow I had it in my head, that he was part of it's inception. YIKES! I'm so glad you guys had better knowledge than I. I apologize for associating him wrongly.
Patria |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 395
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 9:10 am: | |
WOW! I never anticipated the volume or breadth of responses to this thread. Thank you everyone! I am very glad to see that I am not isolated in my experience. |
