| Author | Message | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 929 Registered: 7-2003  |
Tisha, we must have been writing at the same time....I found it almost humorous that I edited out some of what you said because I thought it "too long".  Maybe God wanted it said regardless of length.... | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2005 |
Melissa, thanks for writing the above as it says a lot of what I wanted to say. I have a hard time keeping it short when I have passion about something! And, thanks for stating the 5 "Purposes" - they do illustrate the focus is on God, NOT ourselves. It is NOT ABOUT ME! I like that! Also, thanks for bringing in the scripture that supports the premise that God formed us for a PURPOSE - His purpose, not ours. -tisha | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2005 |
I've read this whole thing over friends and... It just goes to show you, whatever we or others might do, DESPITE our motivations or PUNY purposes, God will use for his OWN! somehow, I am not worried, Foreverscout | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2005 |
Amen! -tisha | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 309 Registered: 10-2000 |
Tisha, Melissa and Foreverscout, All three of you amaze me. I posted a website and on that website Stan found something interesting and thanked me for the website. Because he found the Purpose Driven article interesting, I simply gave him another source to read more on the subject if he wanted. Here's how it went--I'll cut and paste my post, Stan's reply to said post (with link that you might like to read for it has many topics btw) and my subsequent offering of another website on the topic that interested him. Along with that particular site, I also posted a link to another topic with the home page of MANY topics (please underscore the word "MANY" with regard to the crossroads site and the last site for they both have "MANY" topics. Oh, here, read for yourselves. Here it is: ""Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 12:28 am: Here is another ministry that is somewhat like the one above. They both are enlightening and will answer many questions as to why we are seeing what we are seeing in this world today and on our news. It will also answer any questions as to why I began this thread in the first place. Because all of these things are beginning with the disabled and disenfranchised first here in America. However, everyone is included after the disabled. That is, if you are a Christian. http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/ ------------------------------------------ Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 436 Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:25 am: Denise, Thanks for posting that very last link above. They have some great critiques of how the gospel gets obscured by the Rick Warren Purpose Driven Life theology. I haven't had a chance to review the Tim Lahaye critique, but it looks interesting. Stan ---------------------------------------------- Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 307 Registered: 10-2000 Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 6:49 am: Stan, For articles on Rick Warren and his teaching that is spreading like wild fire here's another ministry that addresses many things too. Just scroll down to where it says "Spirit led or Purpose Driven" and you can read a great amount about this movement. http://www.crossroad.to/index.html Then there is this site that addresses some things that I'm sure will interest you also. This is not about Rick Warren but is very important to know also. It lists a whole lot of things currently being taught and by whom and their connections to one another: http://watch.pair.com/charter.html And this here lists all of their topics and sites: http://watch.pair.com/default.html#new I'm happy you enjoy that last site, it is absolutely a great eye opener to many things. You know Stan, the way things are going in this world it can get frightening how easy any one of these things can decieve people. Seems like this world has lost it's mind. And I don't believe I'm too far off the track with that statement as you'll see once you begin to read many of their articles. And the other sites listed also. It's amazing at what's going on all around us. I'm very happy you're back! You make my heart joyful. Thank you. Blessings to you and yours always in Christ Jesus Name. Denise, your friend and sister in our Lord Jesus of Nazareth. --------------------------------------------- And I'm supposed to defend myself?? What is there to defend? I did not bring up the topic Stan was interested in. It simply was on this link: http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/ If any of you three would like to go to that link, you may find yourselves interested in at least one of the other topics--who knows? And Tisha since you have a "degree in Applied Behavioral Science," then perhaps you might apply that knowledge and follow the conversation as it was presented rather than the way it came about as it appears on this thread i.e. as though I'm the bad guy here. Infact, all three of you acted as though that's the topic I pointed out--It wasn't. And by the way, I heard no outrage at the killing of disabled people. Why is that? THAT engrages me! Here are other thing that irritate me to no end. This group mentality you all seem to show. If Stan hadn't said something, my bet is that none of you would have been here remarking on anything. ESPECIALLY if it concerns the disabled. Not only the disabled but all of us ultimately as the Global System is set up. Scripture speaks about this doesn't it? Don't shoot the messenger. Here's a link from above once again: http://watch.pair.com/charter.html <~~~~this one has so many links in one article that it's very hard to dispute any of it and if you can, then do so with your documentation. And here is the index or home page: http://watch.pair.com/default.html#new Now if you have problems with the evidence you cannot dispute with documents, then I would suggest you write the the aforementioned links above and dispute this with them. I'm simply relaying the information and pointing out what is taking place. Especially as it pertains to this New World Order with respect also to how it is beginning with the disabled. Now you can go ahead and amen each all you like, but that doesn't take away the evidence presented before you. Oh and by the way, did any of you pray for Leslie Burke? If I seem a tad angry, you are correct in your reading. I've heard enough of everyone else's and hearing mine will not change the facts being presented. Especially the fact that there is a sickening silence with regard to the disabled and all of the information I've been presenting on this forum on this thread for months regarding a host of topics. Let's not have contempt prior to investigation. That's obtuse and unbecoming. Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 310 Registered: 10-2000 |
One more thing I'd like to say. Never did I express what belief is held by me regarding Rick Warren in the above. However, like some others who investigate so do I. Here's just one paragragh from a page with a link here on their first article regarding Rick Warren: ""Focusing on the "customer's perspective" brings success. People feel satisfied. They come and they buy. When this process is applied to churches, it works! With polls and surveys, a church can easily uncover the "felt needs" of the unbelievers in the local community -- then target their services to their intended consumers. Pastor Warren learned that lesson early from Robert Schuller -- the "possibility thinker" who called Mikhail Gorbachev a Christian despite the protests of this unrepentant Communist. The people-pleasing methods that worked so well at the Crystal Cathedral would prove just as effective at Saddleback."" Now here's the link so you can "investigate" how this is presented rather than immediately target it for contempt: http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/1-purpose.htm The entire series of articles on this topic just might have something valid to say. They do give Rick Warren credit where credit is due. At least we could give them that much. If you want to know where I stand on this issue, I'm in disagreement with Warren's methods. It's not Biblical. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 311 Registered: 10-2000 |
This article is written by a 15 year old child. http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/euthanasia.htm Oh, that all adults, Doctors and Christians could learn from this child! "And a child shall lead them" | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 95 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, I'm sorry if you thought I was replying to you personally. I was not - I was addressing the forum as a whole. I was only commenting on one aspect of the thread that had been discussed previously. I know we all have different opinions and I value them all. I was just stating my own point of view, not trying to diminish any one else's. Since I come to this forum for support in the aspect of being a former SDA and learning a new way of understanding the Bible and worshipping God, I tend to focus on those issues. I am also disabled, but that is not my focus at the moment on this forum. I do have understanding and compassion for all disabled people, whether the disability is visible or not. I know what it is like to always be the one fighting for "equality". I am involved in my Company's Employee Ability Awareness Association as a way to help bring awareness of the contributions that we all bring to any company willing to accomodate our special neds. So, please understand that in no way am I antagonistic to your views, even when I disagree. I believe we can all agree that we each bring our own unique perspective to these discussions. Right now, I am having to pick and choose which topics I have energy for. That doesn't mean I am ignoring the rest, just not not up to engaging in every one. We are all sisters and brothers here, and as is true in any family, we sometimes bump up against each other's values and opinions! But even when we disagree, we still love each other! So, please hear my sincere apology for not being clear on my intent in my previous posts. I still love you as a sister of God's Family! -tisha | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Tisha, Then please welcome my apologies for taking your comments as directed at me. And you are very correct that we are all sisters and brothers on this forum--this is what we should all probably keep in mind, myself first in line with that admonishment. May God Bless you! And I thank you for your honest and passionate feedback regarding Rick Warren. My prayer is that you will, in time, find the time to study what they have to say. As to the many topics on board here; there is a multitude of topics and I understand not being able to be on all of them as I myself cannot do that either. So I complelety understand. I love you in Christ Jesus and do hope that perhaps you will again, with passion, come back to this thread from time to time. It's good to meet someone with passion about any one of these topics. As I'm sure you'll agree with me. Let us continue on in the Faith once delivered and help uphold one another, even through the heated debates, which in no wise takes from the mutual respect or love we have in Christ our Lord. Blessings upon your head Tisha, in Christ Jesus Name, this is my prayer offered up for you. Amen. your sister in Christ Jesus, our King of Kings! denise P.S. And let's you and I put up the good fight for the disabled as well. As we know full well what all that encompasses.* | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 313 Registered: 10-2000 |
This is where we are now. This move of Clinton did us all a grave service. Yet, at the same time all of these things are falling right in place with prophecy. As you (generic) will see as we go along here. This next link will take you to a 1998 coverage of and about a document signed by Clinton, however, this system began many years before him but it kept getting botched up. Now we are on the cusp of the implementation of the New World Order fulfilling last day prophecy. It is already on paper and I have that government documentation with a CD ROM I offer free to anyone interested. So on with the article and please keep in mind, this was 1998. http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/turfur12-98.html For those of you who have a problem with that particular site, I have many other sites to offer. Just let me know. Lord Help us all. Denise | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 936 Registered: 7-2003 |
Denise, like Tisha, my comments weren't AT you. I did read the crossroads weblink you posted, and it went to an article opposed to PDL, Rick Warren, smallgroups, etc. I just don't understand why people are more interested in reading someone elses opinion of PDL than they are in reading it for themselves, that's all. PLEASE don't take it personally if I don't agree with the opinion posted, especially when it contradicts my own experiences. We all have different experiences, and that forms our perceptions for better and worse. If we're lucky, we can learn from each other and not have to experience it all ourselves. I have never heard anyone on this forum speak against anyone disabled. As Tisha said, this forum is about adventism. I don't come here looking for support for autism, single parenting, parenting a disabled child or any other facet of my life (even though they get mentioned from time to time). My internet time is limited, and I just don't read everything posted. That doesn't mean I don't care, I just have other responsibilities and priorities. Please try to not presume so much negativity. I don't think it's there towards me, and I've posted some raw feelings upon occasion. I don't think it's there towards you either. Just my own optimistic opinion. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 314 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Melissa, (this entire post is not all to you so please don't think so--love you in Christ), Because you had addressed me by name in your response, I did indeed take that as directing your comment towards me. However, my humble apologies to you also if I am incorrect. As to this being about SDA, I would like to remind you and anyone else reading, that this is about Former Adventists; but then it also teaches about true Biblical teachings. That, I'm presuming would interest anybody who is a Christian. And while you may not come here for things about autism, your home life et-cetera, others have and do. Because this is a Christian forum that means we are followers of Christ Jesus and His teachings. They are not limited to Ellen White nor the doctrines of the SDA Church. Somewhere along the line people leave here because that becomes old news and they are ready for the "meat of the Word." They also, as I did for a time, try finding a Christian forum that also addresses disability issues. Strange as it seems, even though the paralytic man was carried by 4 friends in the Bible and lifted up on a roof and they tore the tiles off of the roof to lower their friend down to Jesus Christ of Nazareth--I couldn't find a Christian who gave a rats %#$$. Not even a telephone call. So where did I turn one may wonder. Well, I went to the "unbelievers." See they cared and understood and even tried to understand. However, they do not want to talk about Jesus Christ. This sure puts one in a pickle! Not fitting in with the Christians and not fitting in with the Unbelievers or the disabled community! It's been a damned lonely walk. And not that I wanted to talk about disability all the time as can be seen in the archives and even recent posts. However, somewhere along the line when things are getting the best of me and I have no family, no Christian friends, no neighbors, no Church to go to, no Pastor to talk to, nobody in this entire wretched world to cry to when in need of uplifting while in such pain or depression that suicide became a thought that was commonplace--I decided or moreover the idea came to me that others HAVE to be in this same dry desert as myself and there must be an outlet. Surely Christians (I thought to myself) would help during times of absolute distress and blackness. But much to my horror and angst, it has not been the case. So I've pushed this issue because of a few reasons: #1--It is hard to concentrate on topics while all alone in hell. #2--For an understanding bunch of Christians to acknowledge that people in need of friendship other than just doctrinal matters exist also. #3--Without support during these very rough times, spirituality can dwindle as the depression gets worse and thoughts come to mind that are absolutely not good. #4--The way the world is going and from reading prophecy, there must be a way to strengthen the weak so that they may be able to discuss the doctrinal matters and be more advanced with their discernment. #5--And also for other able bodied Christians to reckonize their blessings. Realize that there are those they can minister to who cry out to them. Realize that it is their moral imperative to do so according to God's own Word. And for abled bodied Christians to stop being so complacent because what is happening to the disabled, will, in time, happen to everyone on this board. This made it an all around reason. Yes, there are many other reasons that could be named but those are a few. Like for an example the Christians who are disabled who do not register on this forum because they see they would be outcasts if they brought up their issues as everyone other Christian on this forum is allowed to bring theirs up and even prayed for and talked to about their issues. I can invision many Christians out there in the world who read this forum and wish to God that they belonged on a Christian forum like everyone else. Instead, they are out there searching other ministries that know absolutely nothing about SDAism and still not getting their all around needs met. They can't talk about SDAism or their personal lives. So they turn to the Non-believers. Sadly, even there, they are alone when it comes to Christianity. By opening this up with issues of the disabled makes it no different as when we talk about divorces, sicknesses, other forums of which there is an entire thread dedicated to that, or any other manner of life that has been presented in the numerous topics you see. And there are numerous topics. Disability is also part of life and people with disabilities need uplifting, encouragement just like people going through divorces, leaving a church, a kids arm is broken, a dedication to our soldiers in Iraq or you name it. So this is not some special "sub-group" I'm discussing here. This thread also discusses real live human beings. NOT second class citizens. Yes, we, or at least some of us, are Christians also and yes, some of us have left the SDA Church as well. I did. That makes this thread relevant. Because nobody has said anything negative about people with disabilities doesn't signify that there are not significant biases shown if we were to take a poll of people on how many people post on any other given topic--with an exception of perhaps one half percent of the topics. The fact of the matter is that silence tells the real truth. And as Christians, that is a sad commentary--very sad. As a person with a significant disability, it is hard enough to be an outcast of society, an outcast of my family, an outcast from the neighbors, an outcast of many social events, which make up a good portion of the quality of life. Not to mention the Churches that don't even offer "accessibity" into them. Christian friends that no longer call, no longer invite you to any gathering of any sort, nothing. Just left out here and pretending that disability doesn't exist or is not gravely affecting any manner of life. Then a Christian forum is all a Christian with a disability has, to be amongst believers. When there is abject poverty of discussion for the majority of the time, this considerably impacts me. I am only a human being and so there must be many others as well. And they are watching. Do not think for a moment that this is a small matter. For when our men and women get back from Iraq, you can count on numerous people with disabilities. What if just 10% of them are SDA and are looking for truth but also are dealing with their new disability. What, if any place do you think they might try? And what if they came to this forum? What would our wounded soldiers think? How would they feel? Do you believe they would feel "included?" Or perhaps more "excluded" than anything else? I would wager the latter based upon subjective findings of my own. Oh sure, they would learn all about the doctrines of the SDA Church, the Cult that it is, how Ellen White was indeed a false prophetess and they would infact probably go through family problems, and everything others on this forum have gone through or are going through with the support of other Christians when they mention these issues. But let's add to that, they are also suffering greatly from their war wounds and can no longer work to support their family. Now, on top of that, let's also add the fact that they will see a government that's lowering benefits for them. The very government they just gave their all for? Do you think they might need Christian support? Do you think there will be a possibility that they are looking for a Church to discuss God's Truth but also to talk to other Christians because they have no place to live, or they can no longer feed their family or they have no family? Do you honestly believe they will not mention that they can't get into the Church because it's not accessible? Do you ever wonder if they might really be severly depressed realizing that we fought this war illegally and they have lost their family, their legs, their jobs, their benefits, and some will be dying from the DU that is currently being spread all over Iraq. Did it ever occur to anybody that lack of fellowship in ALL areas of our lives, all of our lives if you have no family nor friends, nor a job, nor a Church, nor wife, nor husband, no kids and on and on truly and greatly impacts a person with a disability and that perhaps the CHURCH should and ought to be there??! Leaving people all alone in their distress is a sin. I don't care that everybody wants to talk about Ellen White. I'm a Christian. And so are other Christians who have disabilities. But they don't dare mention this aspect even if their life is in a daily hell just getting through the day because Christians DON'T WANT TO KNOW. Those are just a few of the issues they would ALSO want to talk about. And little things that abled bodied persons take for granted every single day of their life. Like driving, getting out of bed on their own, seeing, dressing themselves, feeding themselves, working, walking, laughing with someone, eating with someone, "doing" lunch with somebody, leaving their homes and actually have a place of fellowship with other Christians that can accept them for who and what they are, having the Churches even modified so that people in wheelchairs can go to the bathroom while at a Church function, and on and on and on. All these things that abled bodied people take for granted and then wonder why Denise is bringing up disability. This is not just for Denise. This is for all those out there who need someone with the spine to speak up in their behalf. It is so abled bodied Christians can realize that dismissing the plight of the disabled is a sin before God Almighty and to shine a spotlight on this truth. I really don't care who likes it or doesn't like this idea--I KNOW God sanctions this thread. He is for the outcasts, the lame, the blind, the paralyzed, the lepers, all the ones who in the 21st Century are still barred from entering a Church because the Church people don't care enough to make a ramp or revamp the restrooms. Nothing has changed in over 2000 years. We are still outcasts. If you want more reasons, I have MANY. There are those who email me but will not post here. How sad. Now, look at the news, read your Bibles, and stop looking away from the Prophets and Jesus Christ, Paul, Jude and many others who tell us about these times we live in and what to watch for. It is almost as though the SDA Church has turned everyone blind to the END OF AGE Prophecies that are happening all around us. And lest you think you are so spiritually equipped that as I've heard "Oh, Jesus will let me know when that time comes," or "The Holy Spirit will guide me into all Truth when that happens," stop for a minute and ask yourselves why did Jesus, Paul, Jude, Daniel, James, Peter, and John the Revelator tell us to "NOT BE DECIEVED." Just why is all that in the Bible if we will automatically know it all when that time is upon us? Why did Jesus Say "See, I have told you ahead of time...?" if we weren't to read that and do as He, our God told us to do--WATCH AND PRAY--BE WATCHMEN AND DO NOT BE DECEIVED.? If some here think you cannot be decieved, think again. Jesus Christ of Nazareth let's us know that. So, this thread, begins with the disabled but it seguaes into the persecuted at the end of time. For it surely is upon us. And in between now and the time when we Americans begin being killed for our faith and our choice is to take the mark of the beast or starve, be killed, or die of other terrible causes, we need to build ourselves up not only spiritually as in other threads but also we need to KNOW what is going on behind the scenes--THAT ARE NOT DISCUSSED ON THIS FORUM. They will impact everybody on this forum very soon. And before anybody starts in with this "we don't know what day or hour...." I already know that. I'm a Bible Reader all the day long. However, Jesus Christ of Nazareth does gives us clues, as does Paul and others so that we may know and be prepared spiritually and physically/mentally. And I can assure you that talking about Ellen White everyday will NOT in any way prepare you for what's coming. Beginning with the GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED MURDER OF TERRI SCHINDLER SCHIAVO for all the world to see is only a dot on the scope of things happening all around you. This Government and most who work in it are evil and you will see that soon enough. What are you going to do? Ignore it and think it will go away? It's not going to go away but it IS going to get much much worse and it will affect us all. God Said So. Now, I'm stepping off of my soapbox and continuing on with my day. Thank you for listening and I do love each and everyone on here. So much do I love you people that I've been on this forum for better than 5 years and it would be nice for us all to get to know each other better and be able to share who we really are. Yes, we are Christians, but we are composed of many different lives and each and every single one of us count. My love is to everyone here even if this post doesn't seem to reflect love but a great passion without the ability to express what is in my heart. And not having that ability is very frustrating for me. But God knows I care for everybody here. I also care and worry for those out there who haven't yet registered. For those of you out there who have not registered, I implore you to register and join us here. If nothing else, we can all hang out on this thread <grin>, even if you believe with all of your heart that I'm a nut. I still love you through Christ Jesus who strengthens me. In His Love. Denise, the very long-winded soap box lady today who has no way of expressing what she's trying to portray in the manner in which she wishes she could. Forgive me for that in-ability. | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 315 Registered: 10-2000 |
I forgot to add this link: http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/NPHide10-98.html#identifier | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 316 Registered: 10-2000 |
This just in on this New World Order I'm talking about. Here's something that ought to throw shivers up and down the backs of home-owners: http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0624/p01s01-usju.html?s=hns | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2005 |
Gosh Denise, am I being attacked here? I'm sorry, I just don't have enough hours in my day to look at, let alone read every single website. I work 40hrs a week and take of family and household because my husband is disabled. Not to even mention all the other difficulties you know that I am facing. You should know exactly where I stand and how I feel by now after all our letters and chats. You have really hurt me here. You know first hand all the letters I have written to senators, judges, President Bush, Govenor Bush etc, all the petitions I have signed and forwarded on; and not just on the disabled. I know that I don't often post here to you, that is precisely because I write to you personally. And it also hurts me that you mostly don't even respond with so much as one word, but will write post after post to everyone here. I can't believe how much you have hurt me here today. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 526 Registered: 7-2004 |
Let me add my own "Amen" to what Melissa has said. I'm sure there are several of us who are dealing with one kind of disability or another. Yes, Dear, I too have one of those lovely blue mirror hangers in my car. My kids refer to it as "rock star parking." Please do not go looking for prejudice where none resides. Melissa's point is good. Each of us has a soap box that we wish to preach from from time to time. This forum has a specific purpose, and that is making sense of some of the indoctrination that we, or our loved ones have recieved via Adventism. We are more than happy to add in other topics as they arise, but we will always go back to dealing with Adventism. I prefer not to concentrate on my disability, because even though it is something that I will be dealing with as long as I "walk" this earth, it does not define me, and one day I will be free from in while I get the unbelievable opportunity to bask in the smile of my Saviour, Jesus Christ. This life is so temporary. You, Denise, have a heart for looking out for people who are disabled and perhaps cannot speak for themselves, and that may be your calling from the Saviour. Don't lose heart just because we are not all rallied around that banner. I, for one, have been happy to see that you are so willing to go out on a limb for others the way you do. Forgive me for not giving you a hearty "hear hear" when you have posted. I've read your posts, when I had time and opportunity, and then I've gone on my way feeling good about the fact that you are showing concern the way you do. I'm sure I am not alone. Sometimes we just don't know how to express ourselves on those topics as you do. I'd like to step in and discuss autism with Melissa, but I know so little about it and she deals with it on an ongoing basis. Do you get my drift? God bless you for caring, and I pray that we all will be as willing as you are to hold up the banner of our own causes, as you do yours. A sister in Christ, Belva | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2005 |
Denise, I want to cry when "hearing" the pain in your posts. I don't even know where to begin. What I am going to say is from my heart and is not meant to be criticsm. It is just letting you know my reactions to what you posted. First, I "see" so much pain and suffering, so much anger, blame, hurt, feelings of isolation. I cannot begin to imagine everything you are going through. I get overwhelmed by just reading your posts. I don't know where to begin in addressing all the issues you bring up. Sometimes, I feel helpless so I don't want to think about it. I feel selfish - I have enough of my own issues to deal with. Sometimes, I feel attacked and judged by you because I'm not an activist, or doing enough to make changes. I don't live up to your expectations (which is a common gremlin I deal with!) and so feel "not good enough". Sometimes, I just want to scream out in agony for all the hurt in this world. I feel so impotent in the face of it all. So - besides posting all of the information, which I find enlightening but overwhelming, if you would also post in the prayer request section (or anywhere else for that matter) just what your needs are, simply stated, I would better be able to pray for you and help you in an immediate way. Here is an example - when Taybie cried out for help in her post, I could immediately reply to that. It was simply stated. It was a direct request for help. I could understand it! Sometimes, your cry for help is so veiled in all the other rhetoric, that I cannot discern your personal need. It seems to be more of a universal plea than a personal one. I hope this is making sense. I have great fear in the pit of my stomach right now because I am afraid you will think I am attacking you - I AM NOT! But I do want to let you know why I find it hard to address your issues. I do come to this forum specifically for the support of other "formers". And that is really what it is for. But in giving and recieving that support, we do touch on many aspects of our lives. In some ways just about anything can be discussed. But most of the time, it has a direct bearing on our struggle as "formers". While I do understand your need for Christian support, I don't want this to become a political arena where we debate issues outside of the scope of the forum. Please realize that I am speaking for myself only, not the group as a whole. I will respond to any personal issues you want to bring up. I tend to read, but not respond to, the political part. It is just my way of staying sane! I only have enough energy for a small amount of horror - which there is way too much of. I'm not hiding my head in the sand - I'm just trying to keep my sanity. You may call me weak, a coward, whatever you might want to call it, but that is how it is for me right now. Please take this as coming from my heart, in Christian love for you as my "sister". Achingly, tisha | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2005 |
I just want to add that I am usually away from my computer on Fri, Sat, and Sun. So, please don't take my silence during this time as anything but what it is! Have a great weekend everyone. "See" you all on Monday! -tisha | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 317 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Pamela aka foreverscout, It is after 1:30am Saturday morning and there are a number of posts that I must address after you. When you posted, I couldn't figure out what exactly you were meaning and so in order to not show favoritism I included you as one in my response post. Here's your post so that you might (hopefully) understand why I had a big question mark over my head upon reading your post: ""Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 2:22 pm: I've read this whole thing over friends and... It just goes to show you, whatever we or others might do, DESPITE our motivations or PUNY purposes, God will use for his OWN! somehow, I am not worried, Foreverscout"" Now, I had just read Melissa's and Tisha's posts and then yours. If you go up and see their posts, hopefully you will understand why I wasn't sure exactly where you stood and so you were included so I wouldn't be accused of playing favorites. Because you know from the discussions we've had, that I wouldn't do that. In playing it safe I have inavertently hurt you a tremendous amount and I will publically apologize for that because you are right, we have spoken and it's true also that I'm not the best responder in emails to you (I'm terrible at catching up). I pray that you will forgive me for not understanding where you stood in context of the posts on here and thereby included you in my response. Next time I will ask you before automatically including you. Forgive my wrongdoing Pamela, I should have known better. An email will be forthcoming to you by Sunday to further my apologies to you. With everything Christ puts in me, I love you* Your sister in Christ Jesus. denise | ||
| Denisegilmore Registered user Username: Denisegilmore Post Number: 318 Registered: 10-2000 |
Dear Belva and Tisha Thank you also for responding. As you see, I've terribly hurt a good friend of mine (Pamela) already and wish no hurt to anyone. So hopefully these posts will come out worded better (pray they do, will you?). We all have disabilities of one type or another Belva. Some people, like yourself, can obviously drive a car--that's a great freedom! Feel blessed by that. You most likely drive yourself to Church or if not, there is a possibility that you can get into the Church without having to be carried into it. Once there, there is probably a place for you to sit and ten to one, you are not stared at, mocked, or insulted. Just guessing, although I could be wrong. I drive a power wheelchair and the city will not pay for sidewalks to drive on. It can be very dangerous and it's bone breaking at times due to the rough terrain. Not only that, when a dog attacks you on a wheelchair, people laugh or the people in the cars scream out nasty names at you. All that, is one small thing. Irritating enough however to head to the City Council Meeting to find out why we don't have sidewalks nor curb cuts where needed. Afterall, going to the grocery market shouldn't be a life threatening ordeal. Next, certain meds began to be taken off of the insurance I have and some of them were the very meds I needed. Living on a very tight income makes it very hard to eat and also have medications. Then came to my attention the killing of the disabled. This has been going on long before Terri Schindler Schiavo and I've fought it all the while not one soul on this board would have ever have guessed. Several years now. Not once did anyone here speak in outrage at the murder of the innocent woman who just happened to be disabled and this really floored me. It in fact, made me sick. How, I thought to myself, can a bunch of Christians get together and not talk about such a great sin. Afterall, they talk about how much money the GC is spending, a dead woman named Ellen White and vegetarianism. If this were a secular site, this would be understandable to talk about everything but some real soul searching heart wrenching news as something so terrible and wrong. But see, nobody spoke up. Not one Christian on this forum even acknowledged that the leader of this country is allowing that to happen while at the same time we are praying for our soldiers in a country that never threatened us once. Why are our men and women there in Iraq? According to our Christian Leaders and Bush alike, to oust a tyrannical dictator who kills his own people. And all the Religious people went "Hoorayyyyy!" and all the Political Party stood there patting themselves on the back because they fooled the "Religious Right." And yet, the whole time, we were and ARE killing our own each and every single day of the year in the United States of America. Just how did they fool the Christians? Well, that's easy enough, "pretend you're one of them." This is where my blood began boiling. The hypocrisy of the Leaders of this country and the hypocrisy of those I claimed to be a part of--"the Christians." And while it's true that I'm a Christian, I cannot say that about hypocrites. Acclaimed Christians or otherwise. Disability is an issue that I've tried to bring to light in lieu of what is currently happening in our world today with regard to End of the Age prophecy. However, my posting for years did not necessarily speak of disability whatsoever. It started with me just being me and talking about the indoctrination that I too underwent within the SDA Church, the WWG Church and the Jewish upbringing I had. What a mix huh? For years that is what I spoke upon, "doctrines." In all those years this disability was progressing and my Church attendance was completely halted, no Christian friends called nor came by. I turned to forums of support that would help me with my own disability that is progressing. Next, I realized that there were certain things a disabled person could not do in this world and in our Christian Churches. Speak up about what we need. Like accessible bathrooms. A basic human need. I can bet by the tone of your posts that you have no difficulty getting into the ladies room. On the other hand, I do, as do many thousands upon thousands of others. Yet, to my dismay, there also, no Christians cared. Yet, it was preached from the pulpit to "not forsake the fellowship of one another." And it is also in Scripture. Somewhere along the line, "the Christians" forgot their crippled friends. I know, I was forgotten. (with an exception of one Christian friend whom shall remain nameless). Not just by Christians but our government who now owned the Christians vis a vis "Faith Based everything." (quite a tax incentive btw). I had to reflect on this "Faith Based crapolla." Just where in the world are my 'faithful' friends? Where in this land is one genuinely Spirit Filled politician that gave a hoot about the 'faithful poor?' You cannot separate Christianity from politics as much as everyone on this board is trying to do. In fact, I can bet that most on this board re-elected Bush STRICTLY because he claimed to be a Christian. And if we are to separate the Religious from politics then I submit that not one Christian should vote ever again. We should stay out of politics altogether, not pick and choose what part of politics we should be involved in like abortions, homosexuality, evolution taught in schools, capital punishment, prayer in schools ad naseum. If we are going to claim that we don't get involved in politics, then let's not get involved in politics in any form. But see, it can't be done. It can only be done when it is "convenient." Kind of like us crippled. When it's convenient, maybe, just maybe somebody will call or maybe, just maybe somebody will visit you in the hospital, or maybe, just maybe somebody would actually take you to Church and carry you up the stairs and also petition the Pastor to announce that "This month this Congregation is collecting funds to install a ramp into this Church and also collecting funds to "re-vamp" the men and women's restrooms." Then pass the basket. See, that is not "politically correct" and it won't happen. Why? If we are all part of the body of Christ, then why do some Christians go inside and some have to stay outside? I often wonder what would happen if the Religious of the land actually told the President of the United States that they are not voting UNTIL there are ramps, curb cuts, rest-room accessibility, accessibility in ALL public places, including shops, grocery stores, voting booths, sports arenas, movie theaters, adequate funds for needed things like wheelchairs, ventilators, housing, or how about this, stop killing innocent people just because they are disabled (minor detail but it's happening right here in Southern California every single day) et-cetera, what that President would do. And it's not like we can go to the Supreme Court of the land---it has stairs--it is INACCESSIBLE. See Belva, I don't need to "look" for "prejudice"--It exists everywhere. Even in Churches and with Christian Presidents. I'll bet the President wouldn't do nothing if all the Christians just stopped voting. I'll go so far as to say that THAT would scare the politicians into doing something for the disabled to be part of the human race. NOT KILL US when we are deemed by others as "UNFIT." THAT is NOT Christian. That is the way of Baal. That is HYPOCRISY at it's finest. And it WILL BE JUDGED AND CONDEMNED. See Tisha, if we don't get involved in politics, then who will steer this country in the right direction? The pagans? This thread has the title it does because it involves the least of these to the very top. Why is it that I find it absolutely appalling that people see no problem with killing innocent people?? That doesn't make me "off my rocker." I would submit to everyone on this board, that I'm the sane one on this issue in light of God's Holy Word. And this is a Christian Forum, not a satanic forum afterall. And Tisha, I do feel isolated because I am isolated. I'm isolated because Christians do not find me convenient. Other than that, my walk is close with God and God gave us Prophecy to read and take hope and comfort in. As part and parcel of that Prophecy are many teachings about the last days. When Hitler came into office, he too was hailed by many Christians because he too claimed Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. Hitler started killing the 'disabled and seniors' first. Above you will find many many links to prove that what is happening in the United States of America is EXACTLY what happened in Nazi Germany. Only this time, this is the last time and this time it involves ALL Christians. So while you think this is about me and disabled people only, please don't think that. And Tisha, God Bless your heart for it is like Belva's and Foreverscouts, beautiful and you all have much compassion. Yet please know that this is not about my hurts, my isolation, my pain inside as the first major reason for posting on this issue. The main reason is to warn everyone on this forum that this will and is spreading beyond the disabled to the abled bodied and we have the Last Kingdom that the prophet Daniel saw in his vision and that John the Revelator saw in his vision taking over as I'm typing and the NEW WORLD ORDER is here. And while it is not fully implemented in full yet, in just a matter of a very short time, it will be. The Constitution has been gutted and the U.S. will give up her Sovereignty to the U.N. and that is the Beast spoken of in the Prophets and through Jesus Christ Himself. If your hearts are in any way un-prepared because you are not paying attention to what is taking place all around you because it doesn't concern you or make a great impact on your life yet, then you will regret not paying attention to these posts. So, it's good to know that you Belva and others are reading these posts and hopefully others are also as you have suggested could be the case. My prayer is that I do understand schedules also and yet my day and well into the night is still taken up in one form or another by God's Word. My prayer is that you all take more time to perhaps just take a peek at some of the links above in the months prior this or just in this past month and begin your research. It will astonish you and it can be frigthening but it's here nonetheless. We need to prepare Spiritually, Emotionally, Mentally and Physically for the coming days ahead. If you are still coming out of Adventism, please do not stop reading all the many great threads regarding the cult that it is, why it is a cult, how, and how easily it is to get drawn into a cult because Jesus Christ said that in the last days there will be GREAT DECEPTION. And Learning the Gospel on the very many threads on this forum is your best course for starters. Learn about the cults and how they draw you in so it doesn't happen again, stay in touch with people here for support and remember that there is no such thing as a stupid or dumb question. If you don't ask, how are you to learn? That's how we all learn, by asking. These days are perilous and it will get worse than it is. Remember too, that just because things look normal outside in the world that Jesus Christ of Nazareth said that "As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the Ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man" Matthew 24:37-39 Read the Scripture for it tells us alot about how normal things will appear to be but in reality it's just the opposite as the Judgement swiftly came upon them. They paid no heed to the Prophets. Love and many apologies to you Belva and Tisha if I've offended any of you two as well. My cause is not to offend but to point out the elephant in the livingroom and start talking about things that are happening that supposedly Christians aren't supposed to talk about. And I would really like to know who made up that silly rule! Because it is ridiculous to not talk about reality, even for Christians. Even if it's bad news reality--it's reality. And much of this bad news reality is happening to us Disabled, Senior Citizens, the Mentally Handicapped, the Poor, Unborn Babies, Certain Races Still in the supposed modern 21st Century, prejudices abound in all of these areas and that is a truth not one person on this forum can prove otherwise. On the other hand, I can prove with certainty that bigots exist, prejudices still rule the land and those who have get more and those who have little get stolen from in this United States of America. Being disabled and yet functioning like everyone else doesn't diminish your disability. However, it doesn't diminish your lifestyle from the able bodied either. Then there are thousands and thousands and thousands of us whose lives are supposed to NOT be seen NOR heard. We are the expendable masses. Same with the seniors and the Unborn and the Mentally Handicapped. But it is soon and is even now falling on Christians. Take heed to watch what happens to the disabled, the poor, the mentally handicapped, the homeless, and the seniors and know that the Christians are now being targeted also. Here's a link: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1397914.htm And yes, I realize my posts are scattered. This is part of my disability. I apologize. If there were a way for me to be able to keep this all in order, believe me I would but it comes out all over the place and so please pray that perhaps God will help me better organize or that He will help you all and others to see from point A to point Z of where I'm going with all of this. (trust me when I tell you that when speaking I'm just as scattered! yikes!) True story though <grin>. Love to you all in Christ Jesus. Denise P.S. If there is something I didn't address please let me know so I can address the issue. Keep the Faith! |
