| Author | Message | ||
| Kathy23 Registered user Username: Kathy23 Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi! I am new to this forum. I left the SDA church 21 years ago when I got married and moved from the west coast to the east coast. After getting married I would go to the local Adventist church occasionally, but never often enough for them to even know who I was. My husband and I joined a Lutheran church when our children got old enough for me to think I should take them to some kind of church. I knew I couldn't raise them in the SDA church because I was still consumed with so much guilt from my SDA upbringing which included Sabbath school, church school in grades 2 through 8 and Pathfinders. I joined a Lutheran church 9 years ago. One of my children has gone through their confirmation program and the other is just starting it. I am very involved in different committees and a singing group. Yes, I am involved but I can still tell you much more about what Adventists believe than what Lutherans believe. Two years ago I started studying the Bible with a woman who had just moved to the area. She opened my eyes to Biblical truth like never before. Although she eventually left the area, the 5 of us that remain still meet every week to study the Bible - no study guide, we go where the Holy Spirit leads us. Our Lutheran pastors don't quite understand how we can study without a study guide. We have started visiting other churches because we have become disheartened by the lack of enthusiasm for the Lord and His word in our church. In the midst of this search I finally got up the guts to research Adventism. I had always felt God would someday impress on me the need to go back to the "one true church". Imagine my surprise when it was quite the opposite. I found a wealth of information on the internet refuting the SDA beliefs. What a relief, that I never have to go back. It also blew away some of my long held beliefs though. My mother, sister and many relatives still remain in the grasp of these false beliefs. Right after I finally realized the SDA church is no more than a false religion, something else hit me. My mentor in my faith is a proponent of modern day prophets. She holds that there are prophets today and one in particular she believes in. My group of women I study with and I went to see this person at a church 1 1/2 hours away last week. All though most were enthralled, I recognized him as a fraud pretty quickly. I went home and looked up all the texts I could find in the Bible on false prophets. He fit every single one of them. Some of my friends are quite enamored of this prophetic movement and I'm not sure they appreciated my cautioning them about it. Where is this all leading? I've reached a crossroads and I'm not sure which way to turn. All I know is that I love the Lord and will follow where he leads me. In the last 2 weeks I've found the SDA church is not the "true church", there are false prophets out there, and I'm not sure I want to stay a Lutheran. I guess I'm just interested in hearing any comments. Most of the posts I've read are from people who left the SDA church more recently. I left it 21 years ago but it feels like only yesterday because I only found out the truth about it very recently. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 444 Registered: 3-2005 |
Kathy 23, Welcome to FAF, and thanks for sharing your story. I left Adventism about 22 years ago, but only in the last 2 years realized that Adventism was more than just another aberrant Christian religion. I'm curious as to what type of Lutheran church you have attended (ELCA vs Missouri synod)? And I am fascinated by what group you are talking about when you mentioned your faith mentor being interested in modern day prophets? It was great you were able to recognize that fraud. I will pray that you will find a fellowship of believers that you will feel comfortable worshiping with. Stan | ||
| Blacksheep Registered user Username: Blacksheep Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Kathy, Welcome! I left SDA about 15 years ago. And yes, it seems like yesterday, because it still tries to consume me. Most of my family are SDA, a few that aren't are treated like disposable dust rags by them. I can only ask a Higher Power will be able to wake my family up. I feel like I'm in a great judgment hall when I am around most of my family. I try very hard not to make any off comments, but sometimes I slip up and say something. It probably hurts those who are praying so diligently for me, so I try not to talk beliefs. I left the SDA when a traveling sales man invited me to some Bible studies. And I told him emphatically I would never leave my church. A week later,after serious study, and after many tears, I purposely broke the Sabbath. It was the biggest relief of my life and gave me a wonderful calmness and peace of mind. But then I went through many years thinking that perhaps SDA was possibly right and that the Devil had me in his grip and since I had turned my back on the "One true church" the was no hope for me. I am past that most of the time now. This forum has helped. You might ask Colleen Tinker on this forum to send you the Proclamation Magazine. You may find it a real help. Her article in this last issue was so good. It reminded me of my own story of getting out from under the Sabbath law. The other articles are exceptional too. Guilt can eat you alive unless you know what you believe in and stand up for it. I wish you well on you journey for truth. | ||
| Kathy23 Registered user Username: Kathy23 Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 |
It's an ELCA Lutheran Church I am a member of. I don't know of any specific name of a prophetic movement that my faith mentor being interested in. She reads the prophets on the Elijahlist website. The one we went to see was Kim Clement. Through all of these years I have always had a lot guilt about leaving the SDA church. That's why I always thought maybe I would go back to it someday. I just couldn't live by all the rules. I tried so hard to be "perfect" growing up and paid a big price for it. Now I find myself pondering my beliefs and wondering which ones are from my SDA E.G. White upbringing and which ones are truly from the Bible. I have to go back to the Bible to find out. My Mom is coming to visit me in a few weeks. She still attends the SDA church. She knows that I no longer attend it but she doesn't know I have been actively searching for the truth about the church. I would like to say something to her about it but just am not sure how I am going to broach the topic yet. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1634 Registered: 3-2004  |
Welcome to FAF Kathy23. God started pulling me slowly out of the SDA church more than 30 years ago. My name was dropped from the church books in the early 1980s and I was almost rebaptized 1 & 1/2 year ago. God prevented that by showing me all about EGW. Keep praying and studying the Bible. God will show you what he wants you to know and do. Pray about what to say to your Mom. He will give you the words or He may just want you to be a loving daughter. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 774 Registered: 10-2004  |
Hi Kathy, welcome to the forum! I looked up Kim Clement's web site, and it looks like he doesn't even believe that you have to be born again in order to be saved! (http://www.kimclement.com/doctrine/doctrinal_belief.htm) Maybe you could show your friends his doctrinal statement. Jeremy | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2005 |
Kathy23: Welcome to FAF! I will be praying that God will continue to guide your Bible study time and make His Word abundantly clear to you. I am a new "former" adventist. In fact, I haven't sent in my letter yet. I have it all typed but have been waiting for my husband. He is now ready so I'll be sending in my official request for removal from their church roster in the next couple of weeks. I know what you mean about some others not "getting" the problem with some very popular beliefs within Christianity. I am currently taking a Bible study that is highly proclaimed around the nation and have been saddened to discover some beliefs that I feel aren't Biblical. Sometimes I feel very isolated. It's always a blessing to hear someone else is being directed by the Word as well. I think you will find many people on this forum who have an amazing knowledge of and desire for God's Word. My children have attended a Lutheran school for the past two years during a transition out of SDAism (though in the beginning, we just felt an urgent need to not send our kids to the SDA schools in the area). We have adored the staff there and they have done an excellent job of teaching Biblically sound doctrine. We have only attended their church when the children were involved with a program. The only thing that we have trouble with is the pastor "forgiving" sin. I really have no idea what their theology or doctrine is regarding that, so it may be more benign that it sounds to us but because of that, we have chosen not to become Lutheran. As a matter of fact, I don't find myself being drawn to any particular denomination at all. It seems (I may be way off so anyone correct me if I'm wrong) that "denominations" can tend toward legalism because many think they've got the corner market on this or that. Now, it may be that it's not a big deal, but since this is all so fresh to me, it makes me back away very quickly. We are still searching for a church that teaches pure Bible. That is all I want...just give me God's Word! Anyway Kathy23, God is obviously speaking to you in mighty ways. It's overwhelming isn't it! And wonderful and scary and angering and frustrating and on and on the range of emotions go! The most amazing thing about it is that amid all these feelings, He is able to give us the peace that transcends all understanding! What a marvelous God we serve!! God bless you! I look forward to hearing more from you. Patria | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 445 Registered: 3-2005 |
Patria, Just curious about what Bible study you are taking that is highly proclaimed around the nation but you are discovering is not Biblical in some points? Stan | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Stan: I'm taking Beth Moore's "Breaking Free: Making Liberty in Christ a Reality in Life". I find she has taken some things out of context to make her points and also I understand her to say that our prayers "loose" the Spirit of God to do what He needs to do. Any thoughts? Patria | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 59 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Kathy, welcome. I'm Pamela. I am not former SDA, I am and was raised Lutheran. My brother became SDA a few years ago. I am presently attending an ELCA Lutheran Church here in San Diego, but because of the direction the ELCA appears to be taking at this time, (with reguard to sex outside of a marriage between a man and a woman), my church will probably break from it. This will be a huge problem because the ELCA holds our mortgage, but break we will. My mom attends another Lutheran Church that is ELCA and had to leave it because of the same problems within the church, (pastor openly espousing alternate lifestyles). If a church does not preach the Bible, it must be left. Likewise with the false prophet, run for your life! And a study guide really is a great help, it's like a map. Think of it this way, if you don't know where you are going, how will you know when you get there? Have you ever thought of taking the confirmation class with your daughter? Does your church have small groups? or Bible studies? Just a few thoughts anyway... Patriar, our Pastor announces our forgiveness of sins by God the Father, he doesn't forgive us himself, it comes after we make the general confession; is that what you are speaking of, or is your pastor doing something different? Foreverscout | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Patria, I haven't taken the "Breaking Free" study, but I have recently taken the "Believing God" study by Beth Moore. I have received a tremendous blessing from this study. Since I don't have the particular study you are referring too, I can only speculate based on the study I did do on what she meant by saying that our prayers "loose" the Spirit of God. **************** 15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your *understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. Ephesians 1:15-21 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 ********************** I take her statement to mean that according to the texts above, If we ask in faith, believing "God can do what he says he can do" he will reward those who diligently seek him with the spirit of wisdom and the relvelation of the knowledge of him. And according to Ephesians 1:20, the same power that raised Christ from the dead is the same power that gives us this wisdom and even the faith to believe if we ask. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Leigh: I love those verses. Maybe that's it. I don't know. I agree that she provides tremendous blessing to many people. I thoroughly enjoy her speaking and I believe she has a heart for God. I'm trying to glean any good information she has. When I read Ephesians I see God who is omnipotent and gives the 'spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him'. I also see in Hebrews that faith is incredibly important. But here's what she said: "Prayer matters. The Spirit of God released through our prayers and the prayers or others..." My word was "loosed" hers was "released". I know that she believes God is omnipotent, however this particular statement and some others, have me concerned about some very subtle messages being relayed. Anyway, this is obviously my opinion and I will most happily stand corrected if it turns out that she is indeed not teaching what I think she is!  Patria | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 55 Registered: 3-2005 |
Pamela: You know, I'm not sure. It's been a while since we were in a church service there. I believe he says something like: 'and now in the name of the Father, by the authority given me, I pronounce your sins are forgiven.' Patria | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 44 Registered: 7-2000 |
Well, I have done both studies, "Breaking Free" and "Believing God" by Beth Moore. I know only enough to know I don't know enough to pick through everything with a fine-toothed comb. The studies have been extremely beneficial and I feel blessed and strengthened in my walk after doing them. I think of Beth Moore as an authentic Bible teacher. At the same time, I respect those who think otherwise. I pray the Lord gives me spiritual discernment and humility. My solution is simple. I recognize there are FALSE teachers and prophets, yet, I don't want to fall into modern day gnosticism-pretending to have super knowledge that I know a bit more than a great many people. I trust the Holy Spirit whom God has given us, to teach us. Besides, God's sheep know His voice. I can disagree with things some teachers say, but that does not make them a false teacher. We don't have to divide on non essentials. | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2005 |
These are good points Bmorgan. I certainly do not claim to have all Bible knowledge or even superior. But am only questioning as we are implored by Paul to do, because I want to know the Truth. Please know I am also not trying to belittle Beth Moore. As I said earlier, I know many people have been blessed by her studies. Patria | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2000 |
Patriar, Sorry, it is not a personal attack or directed to you. I agree with you about questioning. We definitely cannot follow any Bible teacher blindly. As former Adventist, don't we KNOW that so well. I am just trying to stay centered. In part, I was also echoing some thoughts from J. Vernon McGee's commentary on the epistle of 1John. While we have to be discerning, it is just our nature to become hypercritical. Besides, we aren't aware of how discouraging our comments can be to other struggling souls. For instance, last week, I was visiting with a couple whom I admire and whose opinions I value highly. They were very critical rather opinionated about some things at church which really are minors issues. Moreover, the wife especially, because she is involved in many Bible studies the last few years have become so very picky about little things that now she is going to church shop. Patriar, in my earlier post, I was responding more to the encounter I had last week coupled with Dr. McGee's comments this morning. Even though I like Beth Moore, I am cognizant that she may speak some things that do not line up with some people's opinions. However, I do believe she is as "true blue" as they come and can pass muster biblically. Besides, y'all know down here, we live by the slogan: "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS!" (or Texans including our President-GW.) Just kidding:>) | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2003 |
Patria, I think it is very important to question so we won't be led astray. After doing the "Believing God" study, I came away in awe of the soverienty of God. Here is a quote from her. .... "If in our pursuit of greater theological knowledge God has gotten smaller, we've been deceived-unintentionally but deceived all the same. I am utterly convinced that God is bigger than we will ever stretch our faith to conceive. However high, wide, long, or deep our faith may grow over the weeks, months, and years to come, leave an ellipsis at every point of your spiritual compass. Anything attainable by human understanding is a mere shadow of the reality. Every time you grasp a new concept about God, try thinking, He's this.. and more." Learning of the soverienty of God is so comforting to me. Growing up Adventist, I thought I had all the answers and that EGW's writings contained all the info we needed to know what God is like. I had put God in a little box. Adventism puts time constraints on God (IJ - 1844) , acts like God doesn't know the future, believes that God is in need of vindication by human beings, and says that humans determine when Jesus will return (there is a statement by EGW that the reason Christ didn't return in 1844 was because the people weren't ready, or something to that effect. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, *both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. Epesians 1:3-10 I am so glad that God is in control! Leigh | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2158 Registered: 12-2003  |
Kathy, welcome to the forum. I'm glad you're here, and we are happy to disuss and share these concerns that arise as we follow Jesus. You're right to be concerned about the "prophetic movement" mindset of your Bible study leader. Many of us have found the churches where we currently worship by asking God to lead us to the place where He wants us to grow and find fellowship. Sometimes He leads us in stages: some firends we have first found a small evangelical church near them which perfectly met their needsófor about six months. Then, God clearly brought them to a different church where they are establishing membership. Truth is in His word, and God will guide you. He has clearly given you that "check" in your spirit about the modern-day prophet movement. You can trust Him to lead you to a healthy church where you can grow and be taught and also contribute. Withh prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2005 |
Leigh and Bmorgan: Leigh you said: "Every time you grasp a new concept about God, try thinking, He's this.. and more." I LOVE that! What a wonderful TRUTH. Bmorgan: No worries! I appreciate being brought back to center myself. I totally agree with you that the above mentioned writer and speaker is true blue. I am going to continue attending and gleaning the important Truths from God's Word! You are absolutely right...it's easy to be hyper-critical especially since learning I've swallowed a lie all my life! (By the way, I'm 1/2 Texan!) I also love how Leigh pointed out that God IS sovereign and is in control. I needed the reminder to just put my trust in Him. Kathy23: I'm sorry for the sidetrack! I hope you are having a blessed week. I have been thinking of you and will continue to pray for God's guidance in your life. Please keep us updated! Patria | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 46 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hey Patria, We stick up for 1/2 Texans too!! Again, I am not trying to discourage questioning. Ah Yes, I have to keep centered and pay attention to Bible Teachers. I echo you about "swallowing the lie our whole lives." Kathy 23, welcome to the forum. Bmorgan |
