| Author | Message | ||
| Velo1 Registered user Username: Velo1 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2005 |
Does the Sevent Day Adventis church have an official (published) position on Ellen White's literary dependence, or some type of follow-up to the Veltman report? In the personal posstcript to the "Desire of Ages Project", Fred Veltman discusses the question "Do you think the introductory statemtn to The Great Controversy constitutes an adequate admission of literary demencence" (i.e. does this cover her for the Desire of Ages...) His response is that he did not, nor to his knowledge, "does anyone else have a satisfactory answer to this important question." This topic intersts me because when I questioned an Adventist pastor on this topic his response was basically this: 1) Ellen White admitted to using sources in the beginning of the Great Controversy. 2) Whenever authors use Bible passages in their writing, you are bound to see similar passages quoted. 3) He believes she was inspired from his reading of personal letters, etc....that she wrote. Is this the standard SDA position...or is ther another published article I can reference? Thanks in advance. | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 465 Registered: 6-2004 |
Isn't that a typical response from the SDA viewpoint? Regardless of how EGW has been proven to be false, they will "spiritualize" it into another meaning or explaination. Talk about being spiritually blinded. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 268 Registered: 7-2004  |
It appears that there were some articles in Ministry Magazine in the fall on 1990. There was a summary of these posted on CARM. http://new.carmforums.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=121&topic_id=44364&mesg_id=44575&page=3 | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1858 Registered: 11-2002 |
My SDA relatives tell me that God led EGW to the authors to copy from so all truth would be written by one author, EGW. I think it's corny. | ||
| Velo1 Registered user Username: Velo1 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 |
The original articles are available on the adventist archives website. These were summaries of the report by Veltman. I referenced the original articles when I asked the pastor the question. Here's a link to the archives site where you I read the originals. I believe they were from October and December 1990. http://www.adventistarchives.org Incedentally, this is where I read the articles from 1980 regarding the Dark Day of 1780 in the Adventist Review...end of May 1980 and beginning of June. I have still heard it preached (in 2004) that the Dark Day of 1780 had "no scientific explaination" | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2005 |
Here is the link to the Veltman report, originally called "The Desire Of Ages Project", now conveniently renamed "Life Of Christ Research Project". http://www.adventistarchives.org/documents.asp?CatID=13&SortBy=1&ShowDateOrder=False They should have named it "Plagiarizing for Fun and Profit". DT | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 780 Registered: 10-2004  |
Yeah, and they have it in some strange .djvu format to discourage people from even viewing it. You have to download a plugin in order to even view it. The same for the "1919 Bible Conference." Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 24, 2005) | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2003  |
Jeremy, Please be honest, do you really believe they choose a particular format to discourage people from reading this document? Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2005 |
Richard, If you look at the format, it looks to be a scanned copy of the original typewritten document. Go to the White Estate website or even other areas of the General Conference website and you will find thousands of documents available in a very readable, searchable, common format made for ease of use. The Veltman report cost around $400,000 to produce over an 8 year period. Are you seriously telling me that they can't spend a couple hundred dollars to have it typed into a usable format? Before answering that, take a look at the original report. The typewritten format is the way it was offered to church members (the ones that put up the $400K in the first place). An 1800-page typewritten report, not edited for book sales or ease of use. This overly-large collegiate book report was put out by one of the largest private publishing organizations in the world. It is deliberate obfuscation. If the report had totally exonerated EGW of the plagiarism charge, do you think it would be as hard to obtain or use? While you're at it, take a look at the DARCOM 7-volume set. While not a shining example of scholarly work or professionalism, it was at least published in a usable format. (I personally believe they made it a 7-volume dry-as-dust work to discourage people from actually reading it.) If it exonerates or venerates EGW, it is published professionally. If the result varies from the party line then the least amount of effort they can expend and get away with is is the order of the day (or century). | ||
| Velo1 Registered user Username: Velo1 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 |
Richard is right on this one. I am thankful that the information is out there...the fact that I have to go an extra yard is to view it is of little significance to me. More importantly, I have seen the .djvu format on other institutions with a large collection number of scanned works. I discovered this on my research of Adventist extra-biblical sources used (ineffectively in my opinion) to support their view of history. One example is the million-book project. Its goal is to scan a million books for view on the Internet...a virtual library at your fingertips. They are using the .djvu format. It takes a minute or two to figure out, but it works just fine, and I suspect it has some advantages for this type of application. http://www.archive.org/details/millionbooks Take a look at the site...when you think about it, the amount of information available to us (literally at our fingertips) is truly amazing. Maybe the era when "knowledge has increased" occurred in the 1800's but surly the era when "information" has increased is here and now. Finally, this is why I view Adventism as a sinking ship.... there is simply too much information available at an ever-increasing rate. The reason I stumbled upon the million book project is that I was looking for Thomas Hodgkin's "Italy and Her Invaders vol III" to read about 538 A.D. Vol. III was not scanned YET, so I went to a local university. BTW, Hodgkin does not support the Adventist interpretation of 538 view (1260 day). http://www.adventistinfo.org.uk/studies/1260days.txt | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2005 |
Richard, Upon re-reading my post I believe I worded it too strongly or seemed to aim it at you. Let me assure you that it was not aimed at you. I didn't even mean to make it quite that strong. I always enjoy reading your posts as you bring a lot of knowledge and compassion to any discussion. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 189 Registered: 1-2003 |
Dt, at least I got a response.  There have been times when I've said something and there is not a ripple of comment back. I have a wry smile at times like that and sort of imagine others saying quietly behind my back, "Well if we ignore him he'll go away and stop his comments." Colleen is the period inside or outside the quotes?? Having said this please note my tongue is at least partially "tongue in cheek". Even when someone is leaning "towards" rude i can usually keep my sense of humor. After all no one elected me "god" and all knowing. richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2185 Registered: 12-2003  |
Punctuation is perfect, Richard! (What a delight! My memories of 9th grade English students are still raw...) Colleen | ||
| Gmatt Registered user Username: Gmatt Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2005 |
Richard, I can't imagine anyone wishing you would go away!! Your input on this site is always interesting, inspiring and thought provoking. |
