| Author | Message | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 184 Registered: 7-2004 |
I cannot give you exact scripture because I left my Bible at home today. So I will tell you a general direction to find what I am saying. Towards the end of Luke when Christ returns to the disciples. Does he not basically explain how the Law and the Prophets referred to him and that he had fulfilled them? | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 133 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hrobinsonw, Yes, you are referring to Luke 24, where Jesus encountered two believers on the road to Emmaus. Finding them dejected about his death, Luke records these words of Jesus:
Jesus later appeared to the disciples and explained how he had fulfilled all that was written about him in the three components of the Jewish scriptures--the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms:
Luke also records the beginning of Jesus' ministry in Nazareth, where he also quoted from the scriptures to announce the fulfillment of scripture:
Luke also records in Acts 2 where Peter reasoned with the Jews from their scriptures that Jesus was the promised Messiah, and of course Paul's writings are permeated with references to the Jewish scriptures. I'm still amazed how clearly Jesus is found in the old testament. That Jews don't see him in their own scriptures is hard to understand, but what's even more difficult to fathom is how some professed Christ-followers minimize his importance and focus on the law and shadows that were all fulfilled in him. Greg | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 839 Registered: 7-2003  |
I believe this is what you are looking for Hrob:
Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 840 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dang! I must have been typing while Greg was posting. Beat to the punch again....... Chris | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 185 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks guys. The more and more that you actually think about it, the more it makes sense. I always hear that "I didn't come to abolish the Law" thing from people. I find reference after reference of Christ stating that he was the answer to the equation in that scripture. It is ridiculous. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2106 Registered: 12-2003  |
You're right, Hrob. Even in His miracles, Jesus was pointing out that He was ushering in something new. As I mentioned a few days ago, our pastor preached on the miracle at the wedding at Cana (John 2). Jesus commanded the wedding waiters to take the stone jars used for ceremonial washings, fill them with water, then draw from them. Jesus did not use drinking water; he used the ceremonial washing-water. The pots, Gary pointed out, had to be pure in order for the washing water to be able to ritually clean the people. By turning the water into wine inside those ceremonial pots, they were thereby defiled and would never again be able to be used for ceremonial washings. Further, he turned that ceremonial water into wine--a foreshadowing of His blood which they didn't just wash in; they drank. Then John says in verse 11 that this miracle was the "first of his miraculous signs." Gary pointed out that it was not merely a miraculous meeting of needs; it was literally a sign--of the new covenant that Jesus was ushering in. From that first miracle that inaugurated His ministry, Jesus was demonstrating to people: "I'm bringing you something NEW!" Of course Jesus didn't come to abolish the law. It was merely a shadow; a temporary foreshadowing of the REAL THING. Now it serves to help us understand how God interacted with humanity and to understand how Jesus is the Promised One. If we are hiking on a winding trail and find ourselves in a long shadow before we see what casts it, when we round a corner and find a giant tree casting that shadow, we don't abolish the shadow when we find the its fulfillment in the fragrant coolness of the actual tree's shade. Fulfillment doesn't mean abolish--but people who use that argument are wrong to use that argument to say they therefore still cling to the shadow. When you finally sit at the feet of the real tree, the shadow some 30 feet away seems pretty limited. You simply don't need the shadow anymore! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 841 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hrob, I really like your comment about Jesus being the answer to the equation. That really "sums" it up............so to speak :-) Jesus didn't come as someone bent on destroying the Law like erasing an equation off a chalk board before it has been solved. Rather he came to fulfill the Law. He completed the equation and gave it meaning. He not only solved the equation, He is the answer itself. And once the equation has an answer, there's no reason to continue to work on it. It's finished, the solution has been acomplished. Great analogy Hrob! Chris | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 186 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks Chris, and Colleen, once again, you are right on target. Jesus does alot in the book of John that can be viewed breaking the Law. The sad thing is that once you point that out to certain people then they keep coming with this ritual and moral Law thing. There is no arguing with them. The best thing to do is to tell them, then pray for them and leave it alone. Oh, by the way, if I tell my Mother In Law that I don't want her coming to the hospital to celebrate the Sabbath with the baby, would I be wrong for that? | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hrobinsonw, My history was saturated with focusing upon what is "right" and what was "wrong." I'm trying to re-train my mind and tongue to think and speak outside the cell of "should's" and "ought to's" to what I feel is the greater question: What is the good thing to do? If I take a devotional book to my neighbor to read while they are in bed ill, that could be considered the "right" thing to do. But if I notice his lawn needs mowing and his trash barrel needs to be taken out to the curb, and I do THAT......I see THAT, as doing the "good thing." "And that's all I have to say about that!" :c) Jess | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 164 Registered: 1-2003  |
Jess I understand what you mean by the "good thing" but I guess my way of expressing it is not the "right thing" but doing it with the mind and spirit of Christ working in me. Many years ago I remember after the riots here in LA when I went down one Sabbath to help. At first i was uncomfortable "working" on Sabbath but I got over that quickly and ended up unloading trucks of relief goods and cleaning up the damage. It really bothered me that I felt that legalistic about what I was doing even that many years ago. I still have my lists of things to not do but the lists are growing shorter and shorter as I ask God let His Spirit dwell in me to guide me every moment of the day. richard | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2109 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hrob, my first response is that you probably need to allow your MIL to visit your baby on Sabbath. I believe you can respect her but still tell her that you do not wish for her to talk about the Sabbath with your child. If she wishes to talk about how much Jesus loves her, though, that's OK. Your child can benefit from her grandma's love, and there's no point in driving the wedge deeper than it will naturally be because of your wife's "apostasy". You will probably not be able to insulate Dakota from hearing her gramdma's beliefs as the years and months go by. Your own faith in Jesus, however, will be powerful--and even more so if she sees you living in peace. Remember, God will protect your child, and He will also protect your heart and your wife's heart. Trust Him with this. | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2005 |
HROB, Do you hear my hearty "AMEN!" to Colleen's wisdom from back here in the audience? Jess | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 403 Registered: 4-2000  |
Colleen, Thanks for sharing the excellent insight from your senior pastor about the wedding at Cana. Truly, Jesus didn't just go through the motions. There was clearly a divine purpose and mission in His miracles. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1605 Registered: 3-2004  |
Colleen, Thanks for the sharing of your pastor's insights on the water that was turned to wine. I have never heard it explained that way, but it makes sense. Diana | ||
| Hrobinsonw Registered user Username: Hrobinsonw Post Number: 187 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks Colleen and JWD, my mother shares your sentiments. | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 153 Registered: 6-2001 |
I have to say my (Adventist) mother in law is not at all militant or subversive about the Sabbath. When her grandchildren are over for the day, they spread toys all over the house while she is cooking. Her live-in mother-in-law watches TV all day every day including the Sabbath (and I think she is Adventist too but senile). My MIL has babysat my daughter several times, and I can't even imagine her doing anything like that. Of course if the word "sabbath" ever tumbled off my daughter's two-year-old lips after a visit with Grandma, I think she knows how bad it would be. She did give my daughter a book for Christmas about Firsts in the Bible, which did include the first Sabbath. But I really don't think she thought about it much. She has given her many other (secular) books with no objectionable content. At some point, I'm debated whether we should stop going to church with them when we visit. But she goes to ours, so I dunno. (We live about 3 hours apart) We have never had a religious argument although she is the one who gave my husband that prophecy CD. She also listens to mainstream Christian music on the radio. I can't quite figure her out. I don't think you have to worry HR about your MIL doing any damage at this stage in your daughter's life. Even when your daughter gets older, I can hardly imagine your MIL's feeble attempts at explaining the Sabbath to a 3 year old who has not had it drilled into them every week. "Yeah the day before you go to church with your mommy and daddy, Jesus does't want you to play with your toys. That day is the Sabbath." You don't know this yet, but try and separate a toddler from her toys for more than 5 minutes. It don't happen! Ramblingly, Hannah |
