| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1594 Registered: 3-2004  |
I was lurking on the R/S web site and came across under Features, New Words for Witnessing. I went to it and read some of it. First of all, before I went to the New Words, it says there that this is a manual to share with people who already have salvation. You and I know that when a person has salvation they do not need anything else. Here is part of it. Establish common ground by asking these questions: 1. Do you believe Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven? 2. Do you believe Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden for disobedience? 3. Do you believe in the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus? 4. Do you believe in the judgement? SDAs believe all these is said when the person says they believe these things. Then the question is asked: When Jesus comes, when would we be judged? I know there is a lot of deception in these questions because SDAs have there own take on each of these questions. I am disgusted that such deception is pulled on people. Just wanted to share this with you so each of us are aware of what is happening with out former church. Not once is Jesus mentioned, His free gift of salvation nor is He emphasized, except for the third question. Thanks for listening. Diana | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 295 Registered: 7-2000  |
Diana, they made a try at it, but how can people who themselves don't know what the Gospel is possibly explain it to anyone else! Bob | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 493 Registered: 7-2004 |
How can these be new words for witnessing. It is the same, dreary concentration on how everything got messed up and needing salvation in the first place. I agree that there is very little emphasis on the saving effort by Jesus, but that, too, is nothing new. The final question about judgment is crafted out of their own viewpoint. Somehow they have to have a courtroom-like event for judgment to take place. Most of Christendom accepts that God is the final judge, that there is no need for a jury, and once sentence is passed, it is eternal. Only SDA's have a hesitant God who needs to go back and audit his records. Jesus loves me, died to save me, this all I need to know. I'm through with all that fear of the judgment stuff because I have passed beyond judgment into Life! Belva | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 367 Registered: 3-2005 |
Diana and Bob, The R/S web site under the direction of O'Ffill, is one of the best examples of the cultic nature of traditional Adventism. That experience of posting over there truly opened my eyes to the battle we all face when trying to talk to cultists of any stripe. O'Ffill was so bold as to proclaim that if Paul was alive today, he would be preaching a different gospel! And, of course he would be preaching the Adventist gospel! O'Ffill has clearly stated his intentions of concentrating his message on those who already profess to be saved. This is what the JW's and Mormons do as well. This is just another twist on the same old deceptive tactics all cults use. Stan | ||
| Becky Registered user Username: Becky Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hi All, The SDA's evidently are now teaching their members to discredit all of Paul's writings, and forgive me, I forget the reason they give. My dad and I got into this weekend; I told him to read Hebrews, Romans or Galations for scripture pertaining to keeping the Sabbath. He quickly turned to some scripture (I was so upset I didn't even hear it or take note of it's address) on why we can't really believe anything Paul wrote. Can anyone help me out with that scripture? Also, what is the R/S website? Something else frightening - I told Dad the focus should be on Jesus Christ and he said, "We focus on Jesus Christ when we are babtized the rest of the time we are supposed to focus on the Sabbath as it is a celebration of all creation. This is when everything began." Then he said something else about others in the Bible that were resurrected also - the inference was that Jesus is just not that big a deal. It occurs to me that isn't that what the wickons do - worthship the earth etc??? | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 494 Registered: 7-2004 |
He doesn't want to preach to all of the saved. He has written formers who are saved off as the enemy. It was obvious that we represent something beyond frightening. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 722 Registered: 10-2004  |
Becky, here is the Scripture from Peter that the SDA's use to discount Paul's writings, which interestingly, Peter calls Scripture:
Those things that your dad said are really frightening, Becky.  The R/S website is the www.revivalsermons.org web site and forum owned by an SDA Pastor and author, Richard O'Ffill. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 05, 2005) | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 495 Registered: 7-2004 |
Becky, you just gave me an aha moment. All of the stress on the "Creation Sabbath" is actually making the creation something to worship--an idol of the Sabbath, rather than acknowledging the God who created it all, our beloved Saviour Jesus Christ. I felt such a chill wind right through my soul when I got that. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 723 Registered: 10-2004 |
"For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." (Romans 1:25 NASB.) Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 368 Registered: 3-2005 |
Shadows always obscure the Substance. I believe the Sabbath doctrine as taught by SDAs may be even worse than the I.J. doctrine. They focus so compulsively on the Sabbath, that Christ is completely forgotten. The late Walter Martin used to use an analogy, of a couple who was much in love with each other, but separated for a long time. They finally were reunited as one of the partners got off the plane. Imagine if the lonely lover ran and kissed the shadow, as his partner got off the plane, rather than the person. Martin said this is what SDAs are doing with the Sabbath. They are kissing the shadow and becoming obsessed with the Sabbath, rather than embracing the Substance who is Christ. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2081 Registered: 12-2003  |
Becky, I have to say I had the same "aha" moment Belvalew describes above. I had never actually summarized Adventist's fixation on Sabbath as a "memorial of creation" with honoring creation (as opposed to the Creator) before. Adventist's say it's honoring the Creator--and the Sabbath is the memorial of God's creation of the earth--but the fact that it's tied to creation really makes it more of a temporal focus. Similarly, the focus on a DAY (a created thing) is temporal, too. Praise God for Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Becky Registered user Username: Becky Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thanks all, Dad and I got into a hmm, "discussion" if you will until midnight Saturday about a lot of stuff. He was very bothered by where his tithe goes - to investments in pork distributors, caffeine, jewelry etc. He said he would just find out about that. Does anyone know how I could get a copy of the current GC holdings? I did print out the Arkansas newpaper article from truthorfables but that appears to have been some time ago. I stuck "Sabbath In Crisis" in the middle of Dad's Bible bag. I pray he looks at it. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 911 Registered: 7-2003  |
Somewhere close to the top is a question about Satan and his angels. This weekend, my 12-year old was describing a game he is playing that has some medieval setting, general kid stuff, nothing violent, but he said something and B made the comment that his game was satanic. He went on about how during medieval times there were lots of wizards, etc. and Satan gave them power to do miraculous things, etc. It just seems to me B blames everything in the world on Satan and doesn't seem to recognize that James says we are driven by our own lusts...Satan can tempt, but people make choices. Is there something in Adventism that is obsessed with the satanic, almost in a witch-hunt frenzy that belongs in the 1600s Salem?? It's so hard to know if it's just him, or his teachings. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 482 Registered: 7-2004 |
Becky, It is very interesting to me to hear your view point of what your parents have stumbled into rather than from the perspective of living and breathing it for a life time. It seems your voice is one of desperation more than those of us who have lived it. I feel it would be the desperation I would feel if my children were to stumble into New Age/Scientology/Islamic religions. It gives me pause as I contemplate my parents. I have chosen to not force the issue of their false religious beliefs. It seems impossible to even try. The love you show for your parents and the desire you have to pull them away from the cult they have joined is inspiring to me. My prayers are with you as you continue reaching and sharing the love of Jesus to your parents. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 818 Registered: 7-2003  |
I don't think it's just him. My in-laws seem to use "Satanic" as a common adjective. For instance, "Lord of the Rings" is "Satanic". Okay. I think it's okay to not like LOTR. I can understand someone's objection to the portrayal of dark forces in LOTR. But I don't understand the use of the adjective "Satanic" for a book written by devout a Christian that never ever glorifies evil and has distinctly Christian themes woven through it. LOTR is about good conquering evil. It is about self sacrifice, honor, valor, and brotherly love. What is "Satanic" about any of these things. In my experience growing up, many SDAs tend to label anything that is fictional or would fall into the realm of "fantasy" literature or sci-fi literature as evil. But to be fair here, I think this is prevalent in a lot of Christianity. I'm probably going to get myself in a lot of trouble here, but here goes: I am somtimes amazed at the amount of misinformation, misunderstanding, hysteria, and outright urban legend that has grown up around "Dungeons and Dragons". Chris | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 724 Registered: 10-2004 |
Melissa, yes, Adventism is obsessed with, and focuses way too much on, Satan. EGW used the name Satan like over 19,000 times or something...way more times than she talked about the Sabbath even!! And then you would have to add "devil," "enemy," etc. And, of course, EGW did glorify Satan, also. Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 370 Registered: 3-2005 |
Whenever you emphasize the great controversy between Christ and Satan, you in a sense glorify Satan by putting him on equal planes with Christ. Jeremy, that's interesting about mentioning Satan 19,000 times. How many times does the Bible mention Satan, and how many times does Ellen mention Christ, say as opposed to her number of references to the Sabbath? Stan | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 582 Registered: 1-2003 |
Here is an example of the maddness found in Adventism when left to run amok...this guy calls himself Elijah and posts on CARM...very unstable in my opinion and scary. Sadly I have met many like him. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Perhaps you might like to restate this below, where one can make a spiritual reply?? Christ says that "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS". And 'you say' that it is Christ's ten commandment ETERNAL Covenant that kill's us! (check Gen. 4 : 7?) THE LAW OF AGAPE LOVE, huh?? Matt. 22 : 35-40. Wow!! I best re/read Titus 3 : 9-11. 'ONE BIG PROBLEM' Honestly speaking, this sounds like near blasphemy at the least to me? (or jesuit tactics) But before I run off, the Master's Words are very clear to ALL who have them recorded in the FLESHEY TABLES of the heart by the Holy Spirits REBIRTH process. (if they are Born Again?) 1 John 2 : 4 "He that sayeth, I know (love) Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM." (her) ---Elijah | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 725 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ok, here are some statitistics/comparisons. For EGW, the figure is number of paragraphs (so the actual count for the word is somewhat higher) and for the Bible, I will give the number of verses (which could also contain the word more than once sometimes), from the King James Version. When there is a * after a word, that means that I searched for every form of the word. For example Satan* would include Satanic, Satanism, etc. Satan* EGW 19,292 KJV 49 devil* EGW 1,905 KJV 106 demon EGW 178 KJV 0 demons EGW 238 KJV 0 Jesus EGW 35,695 KJV 942 Christ EGW 71,486 KJV 522 (NOTE: EGW uses "Christ" about twice as often as "Jesus"--almost the exact opposite of the Bible's usage. She did not like to use the name of Jesus, instead she turned the title "Christ" ("Messiah") into a name. This is totally opposite of the Bible.) Sabbat* EGW 7,103 KJV 147 angel* EGW 15,863 KJV 283 Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 726 Registered: 10-2004 |
Wow, Pheeki! The "rebirth process"?! It's a PROCESS?! He quotes 1 John 2:4, but the SDAs sure seem to ignore 1 John 4:20 and 1 John 4:8: "If someone says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen." "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." (NASB.) EGW even proclaimed the fact that she did not love Christians--in fact, in the Camden vision, she even says that she "saw" that her "group" was not supposed to love Christians. Besides her hatred of non-Adventists, she also showed hatred for black people, poor people, etc., etc. This much is certain: she was NOT a Christian. And I can say that confidently, based upon 1 John 4:8 & 20. John tells us that we can know that such a person is a liar and not saved. Maybe it would be more helpful to show SDAs that EGW was not even a Christian, instead of trying to prove that she was a false prophet... Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 06, 2005) |
