| Author | Message | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 573 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't get it. Is Willow Creek former SDA or still SDA or never SDA? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 574 Registered: 1-2003 |
Concerning the identity card: I recently have been identity thefted, they have to do something to stop all this! It's rampant. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 881 Registered: 7-2003  |
Willow Creek is "never SDA". It's the church Lee Strobel used to pastor at, if I remember right. (He wrote Case for Christ and Case for Faith...) It is a Christian church that has incorporated more of the forms of "arts" into its worship services. It is a large church in Chicago and they do "worship and arts" conferences annually, which teaches some of their worship ideas. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 575 Registered: 1-2003 |
Here is the link to what Revival Sermons forum is discussing about an identity card. http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=491 | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 449 Registered: 7-2004 |
Regarding ID cards - Like Pheeki, my husband's SS #, birthdate and full name were used at a hospital ER in the Seattle area where a huge charge was racked up. After receiving no payment, the hospital turned my husband into a collection bureau. Three years later, while applying for a home loan, we discovered this huge debt to our credit history. It took over 2 years to get the credit bureau to change our credit statis. We had to jump through hoops to prove it was not my husband at this hospital. We live in a hateful world where people have no sense of right or wrong. IF an ID card is the sign of the end of our days on this earth, I say praise God! I am READY!!! | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 128 Registered: 1-2003  |
wow I'm feeling a little dizzy in here. I just looked back over this thread and there are at least four disparate subjects we have "wandered" through.  Now the question I ask myself is... should I take it off in another direction just to confuse myself more?? Actually I've been interested in the discussion of the many different styles of worship services we all enjoy. I'll be taking a few weeks this summer to travel and wonder if any of you are close to my possible routes of travel. I live in S. California and one trip will be down toward San Diego and maybe into Mexico. The other trip I want to take is up through California, and up the 101 highway above San Francisco, through the Redwoods and possible into Oregon. I would love to meet some of you on this discussion board for Coffee or a chat if it can be worked out. Please send me email if you are any where near these areas. It seems that our worship styles run the spectrum from High Church to Charismatic. Actually I know some Episcapal Churches that are charismatic. I enjoy any worship where I can encounter God in my worship. I attend a church with a "contempory" praise worship service. I grew up in a traditional SDA church with a VERY traditional worship service. In fact it was a matter of pride when I was growing up that you could go to any SDA church and find almost exactly the same worship format.  I seldom felt the presence of God or had a sense of the joy of His presence. I'm not always comfortable with change but I've allowed the box that my God comes in to be greatly enlarged in recent years. I love a worship where you are free to encounter and respond to God in many ways. At my church there are some who will stand during the entire praise and worship time and others who will sit only. Some often raise hands in praise of His awesom power and glory. Some may be kneeling in reverence or even on their face before Him. What is so wonderful is that we are free to encounter our Lord and Savior in unique ways. I can still remember the first time I saw a praise dance winding it's way through the church and people dancing and praising God as they followed each other. Some one mentioned ballet, I've seen some powerful and extremely reverent dances before the Lord as acts of worship. Nothing should be done as a performance but as an act of worship to glorify HIM. I've often seen flags used symbolicly and with grace to further the sense of reverence. Having said all this I know that for many these very acts can be distracting and difficult to understand and join. We are all released into a freedom to come before God in many ways and that is what is so wonderful about our God Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 882 Registered: 7-2003 |
Richard, I whole-heartedly agree. It is especially challenging when you've not been raised on such a tradition to not be distracted by all of the activity, but the people I've seen doing it weren't doing it to distract, but to worship. Once I got beyond the "oddness" of it, I admired their ability to "let their hair down" before God. The more I've studied worship in scripture (and David dancing naked before God...) I realized what it means to worship in "spirit and truth". I enjoy any expression that is from the heart to the glory of God.... If I enjoy it too, that's a bonus! | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 316 Registered: 3-2004  |
Richard and Melissa, I, too have come to greatly enjoy this type of worship after having come from a very traditional SDA type of background. One thing I've found is that in churches that truly understand what it is to worship and who you are worshipping, no one is concerned about your style of worship. If you are kneeling--that is between you and God; if you're raising your hands--same thing. It is totally freeing to find there is no unwritten rule to coming into God's presence. Melissa, like you I have also studied out praise and worship. David even placed the musicians in front of the warriors going out to battle. That's how much power there is in praising God! Praise God... | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 306 Registered: 3-2005 |
Belva, I agree with you how boring that R/S site has become, and I did check out the "clapping" thread. I was amazed to read how V. Hahn is so distressed that Doug Batchelor allows clapping at his prophecy seminars, and how she thought he should try to stop it. I know he wouldn't try to stop it, because he loves all that adulation. I have said before, how those people at these seminars idolize this guy--I could tell it by the facial expressions--not one person was wearing any jewelry of any kind, not even wedding rings. Maybe, they have a metal detector at the doors, and ushers telling people to take off their rings! Stan | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 437 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ah, the jewelry issue! Every person in my bible study group wears a simple cross around her neck. We didn't plan it, no two are alike, but we all wear them as a symbol of our Lord and what he did to ransom us. It's both a shout of victory, and a symbol of humility, at least it is for me. Just try to tell any of these ladies that they are wearing that cross just to draw attention to themselves and the will correct you instantly. I had a man stop me once and ask me if I served the God the cross symbolized and I was very willing to tell him that I loved the Saviour of my life. Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1503 Registered: 3-2004  |
The last SDA church I attended in VA was and probably still is, very traditional and the songs sung sound like a dirge. When I went to church I sung out. Many people told me I had a nice voice, but no one sang out with me. The last SDA church I attended here in Las Vegas is a Celebration church and had good lively music, EGW was not mentioned, but almost every sabbath some one begged for money. The format is that of Willow Creek, the message is not. The audience even claps after the music. The church I now attend has the Willow Creek format and the message is all about Jesus and from the Bible. The music is all Christ centered and I am finally, after a year, learning the words to the music. We have had drama skits pertinent to the sermon, ballet,about praise to God and I am finally learning it is okay to raise my hands and arms in praise to God when I feel like it. It is wonderful. As for jewelry, I am so thankful it is not a salvation issue. I wear it all the time. I feel undressed without it. I even have a cross on a chain. The children of Israel had all kinds of jewels. That is what was used to make what was needed for the temple. About 4 years ago I spoke to a rabbi's wife about jewelry and she confirmed what I was thinking. God allows it. So I wear it, tastefully, of course. We have gone from church services to jewelry and know what?? God is good and accepts each of us where we are, then He takes us where He wants us. It is an exciting journey, but in God's Hands we have no need to be afraid. He will not drop us. God, you are so awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 440 Registered: 7-2004 |
At last, a topic with some potential for being interesting at R/S. It is called "The Other Side of the Same Coin," and here is the thread: http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=611 What this tells me is that the Holy Spirit is working mightily within the SDA church, and the membership is truly feeling what we here have come to call "cognitive dissonance." Give it a read and let me know if you agree. Belva | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 309 Registered: 3-2005 |
Belva, It is interesting on that thread you just posted, that they talk about the "Fordites", followers of Des Ford, being liberals. Ford's position on justification by faith alone, is conservative orthodox reformation Christianity. I just wish he wasn't so tied in with EGW, and the Sabbath. The liberals are really those who follow Maxwell and Dan Smith, and their doctrines of qualified universalism. Stan | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 317 Registered: 3-2004 |
Yes, let's continue to prayer that the cognitive dissonance cause people to really seek the Lord and not traditions. I personally know of a large SDA church (1500+ members) in this state that is known as being extremely conservative. They've had the same pastor for many, many years. Recently the conference wanted to move this pastor and the church rebelled by withholding all monies that were to be sent to the conference office. When the conference sent officials to mediate the dispute, they were met by attorneys and law enforcement! Next they told the pastor to get his congregation under control or they would fire him. Evidently so far that hasn't worked yet either because he said they wouldn't listen to him either so the jury is still out. Our prayers and those of many other formers and friends are starting to work. No matter how you feel about the actions of these various groups, God can use them to shake people awake. Praise God... | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1515 Registered: 3-2004 |
So we continue to pray for all SDAs. God is hearing our prayers. Hallelujah!! His sheep will hear His voice and will come to Him. Thank you God. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 792 Registered: 7-2003  |
Stan, I had to re-learn the theological meaning of the terms "liberal" and "conservative" when I left Adventism. They don't mean the same thing in Adventism that they do in Christianity. In Adventist circles one is "conservative" if they closely adhere to the 27 fundamentals, follow the counsels of EGW, are very careful about Sabbath observance, are vegetarian, etc. They are labled "liberal" if they more closely resemble evangelical Christiantity in their beliefs and practices. In Christianity you are "conservative" if you have a high view of scripture, a high view of Christ, a high view of the atonement, and adhere to the historic doctrines that the Church has held for the past 2000 years. You are "liberal" if the opposite of these things are true. It's symptomatic of the language barriar that exist between Christians and sects to say that a "liberal Adventist" may be roughly analagous to a "conservative Christian". It's all rather confusing. I also noticed that they use the term "historic" in a different sense on the RS site. While we would probably say the posters on RS are "historic" Adventist, they seem to be applying the term to the radical Sheperd's Rod types. Chris | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 448 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks, Chris. I've been reading the thread I posted and every once-in-a-while considered drawing up a grid to help me keep track of who is who and what they were referring to. Of course I didn't do that because I'm not quite that anal about the whole thing. I grew up SDA, faded away for a while in my 20's, got married and rejoined the church because I had children that needed to be raised in "the truth." The pastor of my church had been a friend in academy, and he would talk to me and describe me as a liberal. I am a conservative's conservative, so I would laugh to myself when he called me a liberal. I'm very glad that Jesus has liberated me from all my fears. That's the kind of liberal I want to be. Belva | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 131 Registered: 1-2003 |
Chris you really know how to mess with a guys mind. After reading your post I'm not exactly sure what I am. I for sure am not a conservative SDA with a "lock" on the 27 but I'm not a "liberal" one that parties and smokes etc. My viewpoints are similar in many ways to your sister though probably not as "radical" (whatever that means)? My constant prayer is to see more and more of the face of Christ in all my relationships and to give His spirit complete access to ALL of ME. Life is turning out to be quite a "journey" and a really joyful time in spite of the craziness of relatives on drugs and broken relationships. BUT HE is faithful and sustains and lifts me up. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 134 Registered: 1-2003 |
WOW I hope someone figures out what I said in my last post. It made sense at the time sorry! ! Bottom line we serve and worship an awesome Savior. Richard | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2002 Registered: 12-2003  |
Makes sense, Richard! Chris, I've noticed the same inconsistency in terms that you mentioned above. At least the inconsistency in the vocabulary is consistent! (BTW, I haven't forgotten the vocabulary document. We're getting another PRoclamation ready for the printer--we might actually be getting caught up!--I'll work on it after it's done.) Colleen |
