| Author | Message | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1815 Registered: 11-2002 |
For several years now I has been involved with a local Prayer and Praise group. It is held at the Catholic church in the next town over from me. Most who attend are Charismatic Catholics although several are not Catholic, of which I am one. Never has more than around 25 people showed up. Usually around 15 show up. Anyway, I have very occassionally attended services where talking in tongues was done. it always came across to me as being really weird and chaotic and difinatelly not of the Holy Spirit. I get a headache each time I was exposed to that and ended up leaving the service early. Howeever, at the Catholic prayer and praise group most the others taslk in the Spirit. I never have. However, it is done very different that in a non-Catholic setting. At the Catholic church it is a very peaceful and regernerating experience. It is like listening to sweet prayer music from the depths of the peoples souls sund out to God. Last night for the first time in my life I wittnessed an interpertation. An elderly man spoke in the spirit and several others wher given the exact same interpertation, which they shared. I questioned what was going on and the man that leads the group got out his Bible and read the passages that instruct on this. These people use the Bible and the Bible only in their spiritual practice. I read in an earlier entry on here that some on here don't think the Cathol;ic church has grace down. maybe the church itself doesn't, like the Adventist church doesn't but again as with the Adventists there are those individuals that do have a complete understanding of it. Next month I will be spending a weekend at a monastary up in the mountains. The brothers of this order take vows of silence and on comtimplative prayer. Upon enteering the premisis complete silence is expected. I think they do have arranged times of group and/or private chanting though. I believe you can look up Father Ray on the search and learn about this movement. For those of you in Southeran California Father Ray has hias parish down there somewhere. He will be coming to my area to do a healing mass soon. I LOVE going to the healing masses, getting annotnted and prayed over and prayed for. I generally feel too unworthy to pray for others, like I'm not yet hioly enough to plead to God for mercy of others but I LOVE having the true called ones pray for me as I think some folks really do have a more direct line to God than I do. I tend to get a buzzy signal so when serious issues arrive in my life I bug al the righteous people I know to pray for me. I know I have covered several topics in this post and each topic I mentioned I would like to learn more about. I am drawn to extreme silence, extreme reverance, a litergy, chanting and very reverant prayer. I listen to my John Michael Talbot cd's a lot, etc. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2035 Registered: 12-2003  |
Susan, no Christ-follower has a more direct line to God than another. Jesus' blood opened a new, living way to God to which all of us in Christ have access. The main thing obstructing our praying is our own reluctance to be vulnerable enough to pray. God has a way of helping us see reality when we talk to Him. You have as much of a direct line to God, Susan, as do those who pray for you! Colleen | ||
| Becky Registered user Username: Becky Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 |
Ditto Colleen - As it was said to me once, "If you think you can't be forgiven, you are saying Christ wasn't good enough - God needs to send someone else. If you think you aren't worthy enough, then you are saying God, who made you, made junk." It certainly made me think. Never would I want to accuse God of these things! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1819 Registered: 11-2002 |
I am not questioning my being forgiven. I just think I'm unworthy to seek innercessory prayer on behalf of others. Now, to what I wanted answered. Would someone explain the interpertation aspect of the talking in the spirit. The man who runs the group would explain it to me but I only see him once per week in a structured setting and besides I don't even know his name. And, the way the Penticostals do it just seems so chaotic to me. It actually seems irreverant. How they do it at the Catholic church is very devout, very reverant, and I have wittnessed for myself the results to the groups intercessary prayers. | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2005 |
Susan, we are ALL worthy to approach the throne of God! You know me and all my terrible history, right?, I was the ultimate bad girl, or at least that's the way I feel about my past. But I have had MANY answered prayers for my friends and family. I know two mothers, friends of mine with difficult pregnancies who now have very healthy children. But it wasn't only me who prayed, I made calls and encouraged friends, family and churches to pray also, I just started something up. And that's just two prayers that I prayed for a number of months. Not one of us is less before God than another, he loves and listens to us all. Jesus told us to come before God saying Abba, (literally Pappa or Daddy), asking Him for what we want, trusting Him to provide. I truly believe with all my heart He is aching to give to us what we need, only waiting for us to ask! Think how much more pleasing it is to Him to see us asking not for ourselves, but for one another. And about devout and reverant, do you not approach our Lord with devotion and reverance in your heart? He knows that. You need no special speeches or long words or thees or thous before God. Just hold a conversation, leave some spaces in it for Him to speak with you. If there seemed results to you in the group's prayers, it was because of the numbers of people praying. You can do that; just ask other people to join you in your petition before the Lord, you don't even have to all be in the same place to do that. God loves you so much Susan and you have so much power in Him, just trust and believe on Him for it. Foreverscout | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 321 Registered: 3-2004  |
Hi Susan, It seems everyone is afraid to touch the issue of speaking in tongues. After all, if we are so divergent on just discussing Purpose Driven LifeÖ..  This is an issue that continues to be very divisive within the Body of Christ. There are people on either side of the question who condemn the others for not believing the same. Hopefully, from having been raised in a lock-step, everyone believe the same kind of environment we can now examine things a bit more open mindedly, especially as to others who disagree. I believe everyone would agree that a supernatural event took place in Acts 2. Verse 4 states: ìAll of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.î Verse 6 says that everyone heard in their own language. Thus there is quite a lot of agreement that this type of speaking in tongues was speaking in a foreign language that you have never learned. If it could only remain that simple! The cessationists look at the miracles and supernatural working of the Bible as for that time of history only and not for today so they discount the issue of all types of tongues and other supernatural occurrences today. Others who do believe in supernatural events continuing through history may believe that the gift of tongues is always that of speaking in a known language you never learned. Then you come to 1 Corinthians 14. Susan, I would just suggest to you that you study, cross-reference and pray about that chapter. That is where the concept of ìprayer languageî seems to come from. No matter what you believe it to mean, it seems that there was a bad situation going on in Corinth with a misuse of a true gift of God and Paul was trying to correct it. Today it seems the mark of being Pentecostal is that you feel that in order to be able to say you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit you MUST speak in tongues. In fact, as far as I can tell, itís in all their statements of beliefs, even though these days few may actually speak in tongues. Other Christians, who could be described as more charismatic, donít put that emphasis on tongues but say it is simply one of the many spiritual gifts and not the only evidence of a particular spiritual experience. The charismatic movement is often thought of as mainly occurring in mainline churches such as Episcopal (where I believe it started) and spread to others such as Catholics, Lutherans etc. Once youíve really studied 1 Corinthians 14, Iíd suggest doing 1 Corinthians 12 through 14 to get a complete overview of spiritual gifts. Notice the love chapter is in the middle. Today it seems there is quite a lot of blurring among churches that believe or donít believe in speaking in tongues. Iíve been to many churches of many different denominations and non-denominational leanings. Personally, the ones Iíve found to be most as you described that you find as irreverent are more of the Church of God type. Iíve been in Assembly of God churchesóknown Pentecostalsówhere I found no one to be speaking in tongues in public. I was in a United Methodist church once where at a quiet time of worship suddenly there was a voice booming out a word in tongues. Immediately there followed an interpretation from another part of the church. As you said, quiet and reverent and not a bit disruptive. I would like to hear what practices some of the rest of you have run into as you have processed out of Adventism. Perhaps Iíve just been around to more churches than most, partially as Iím involved in some interdenominational groups. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi, I wouldn't say that I was afraid to touch on speaking in tongues. It's just that I have not personally experienced it and that I had nothing to offer on the subject. I do believe, I know that the Holy Spirit moves who and what and where he wills. I will trust others more learned than I to speak here. Foreverscout | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 48 Registered: 3-2005 |
Pardon me for not capitalizing that last He Foreverscout | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2042 Registered: 12-2003 |
Like Scout, I have not personally experienced speaking in tongues, either. I know people whom I admire as Christ-followers who have had occasions of speaking in tongues privately, but I have not experienced a public occasion such as you described, PraiseGod and Susan. I echo PraiseGod: study 1 Corinthians 14, then go back and study 1 Cor. 12-13 along with it. My personal conclusion, after studying the subject from a position of wanting to understand but having never experienced the phenomenon, is that I do leave room for the experience of prayer languages. I agree, though, that if it's used in public, there must be an interpreter or the prayer is just disruptive. Like most other spiritual gifts, tongues can be misused or can even be faked or part of non-Christian worship. I would never want to limit what God does in a person's personal worship, however. And I really take exception to the practice some have of "learning" or "practicing" toungues. If it's a true gift of the Spirit, He will give it in its completeness. As with all gifts, tongues must be for the building up of the body--and they must exalt Christ, never the gift itself or the people participating. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1820 Registered: 11-2002 |
I will share an amusing little story with allof you. My home church is the local Evangical Lutheran. Around a year ago a visitor showed up at the start of the service. Of course numerous of us who are members invited her to stay after the service in the fellowship hall for coffee and goodies. She stayed and was sitting at the table I was at. Several folks after learning she had recently relocated into our community and that she was looking for a home church encouraged her to consider St. John's. Finily she very politely asked we we at that church practiced speeking in tongues. One lady who was at our table whose husband is a retired Lutheran pastor (she's in her mid-70's) said to the visitor, "I've been Lutheran all my life and I have never wittnessed what you are talking about in a Lutheran church. However, we are know to break our in Norwegian occassionally." She never came back. I hope she found a local church that met her needs. | ||
| Foreverscout Registered user Username: Foreverscout Post Number: 50 Registered: 3-2005 |
Where are you at Susan_2? I once went, as a teenager, to a St. Johns in El Cajon, CA. I now live in Rancho Penasquitos which is in the north inland part of San Diego, CA. I go to Penasquitos Lutheran Church. Foreverscout | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 896 Registered: 7-2003  |
I attended an AOG church for several years, where speaking in tongues and interpretation was a "normal" event. If someone spoke in tongues, they waited for the interpretation. It was never specific to a certain person as EGW claims her testimonies were. It was usually to uplift or occasionally chastise the body. I remember one time, the message asked why you turned to every one for direction except God...turn to me, and I will direct your path.... I think I remember that one because I had been seeking a lot of advice about a certain situation, but hadn't spent as much time praying about it....maybe it wasn't for me, or maybe it was, but I do remember thinking i needed to pray about my decisions more. I know some people claim that you don't have the holy spirit without speaking in tongues, but I never heard that from my AOG pastors. They all said everyone receives the spirit at salvation, but speaking in tongues gives power to the believer's prayer life. I understand it when they talk about it, but it's not crucial to salvation, so I don't focus upon it. I know people in my church who speak in tongues in prayer, but our church is not open to it in the service. It's fun being with them in Bible studies because they really take some people out of their comfort zones. I agree with Colleen about the "learning" tongues. Genuine tongues isn't taught. But I don't think it's a rejection if you ask for the gift and don't receive it. I'd like a lot of gifts I don't have, tongues may or may not be one of them. That's where I take exception with SOME pentecostals (not all do this) that think you have to speak in tongues to prove the spirit's filling. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2051 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'm not sure what thread to post this on, but this one seemed good. I heard a wonderful story today from a friend who is in town for a week. She and her husband are Honduran, and they are "national" missionaries in their own country. Her husband, a GI doc, founded a Christian hospital several years ago, and she founded a bilingual Christian school when her kids were young that now has 250 students, 9 American teachers teaching in English, and 11 Honduran teachers teaching in Spanish. I taught her youngest son three years ago while they were in Calif. for a two-year educational stint. At any rate, I treasure time with Norma because she is so grounded in walking by faith and obedience to the Spirit. She told me this story which she heard at a conference. A monk told God he wanted to surrender his life to do God's will. He offered Himself and asked that God do with him whatever He wanted of him. God showed the monk a large boulder and said, "I want you to push on that rock." The monk willingly pushed. Day after day he pushed, and he couldn't get the rock to budge. The monk began to tire, and his body ached. He was loosing energy and endurance. Finally he said to God, "I am so sorry. I cannot push any more. I can't get the rock to move, and I have no more strength to keep pushing. No matter what I do, it won't move." God came to the monk and said gently, "I never asked you to MOVE the rock. I only asked you to push it." He and the monk talked about the situation for a bit longer, and then God said, "I'LL move the rock." Without another word, God touched the boulder, and it rolled away. I cried at that point. God is faithful, and His purpose is to glorify Himself through us. He is everything. Praise Him that He asks us to join Him and equips us to be obedient to His bidding even when we can't see what's REALLY happening. Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 344 Registered: 3-2005 |
That story , Colleen, reminds me of that Resurrection morning, when the women came to the tomb of Jesus, in Mark 16:3, "And they said among themselves, 'Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?' v.4, "But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away..." Stan | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 684 Registered: 7-2000 |
I'm a member of a Vineyard church. Some in our church speak in tongues....couldn't tell you who more than a few of them are. We use it as a private prayer language. Whether or not someone speaks in tongues is not an issue to us, we see it as being just one of many gifts of the Spirit. It's "available" to the believer as all gifts are "available" to all believers. Since God is our loving Father, we see no problem with going to Him and asking Him for this gift. If He gives it great, if not, that's fine too, we just assume He must be working in some other gifting in our lives. My husband and I are part of the prayer team at church. The pastor asks members of the prayer team to be sensitive in using tongues when ministering to people. If we are unsure if the person is familiar with or comfortable with praying in tongues, then we will refrain from using that gift while praying for them. We want their attention to be on God, not on us. And I think that applies to using any gifts of the Spirit. If it draws attention to ourselves, then the problem is not the gift, it's with the one exercising that gift. It's the same as with someone preaching or teaching. | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 145 Registered: 1-2003  |
Lydell, I do not belong to a Vineyard Church but often worship in one not far from my home with friends. The church I attend has quite a few members who speak in tongues and use it as a prayer language or spiritual language. Like Lydell I'm also a member of our prayer team at church and we have been asked to be sensitive with those we pray. I've heard members quietly ask those they are praying with if they are comfortable with speaking in tongues. It's not an issue with me because it is not a gift with which I'm gifted, but if we allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives we might be amazed what happens. NEVER put God in a box as to what he can do with us. While God has not bestowed on me the gift of tongues He has worked in and through me in ways that would get me "escorted" out of most traditional SDA churches. I'm not going into details publicly because they are not important. What is important is our willingness to be used and to hold back nothing of ourselves. Those of you who know me personally and have met me would probably not consider me emotional or the "life of the party", which goes to prove that God has a sense of humor. I think He sometimes says, "I think we need to make Richard a little less serious and allow My Spirit to flow a little more in his life." God has never allowed me to disturb anyone else but it sure disturbed my sense of having it all together. In fact I think this is why God manifests Himself in our lives to keep us mindful of Him and His sovergn (sp?) power. He has always been gentle in His dealing with me but still He takes me by surprise. richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 284 Registered: 7-2000  |
Richard, a noticeable change that the Holy Spirit made in me several years ago was to cause me to readily cry, or at least to get "teary," sometimes when I really wish I could be more restrained. I noticed this after a particularly intense experience in which the Lord spoke to me about my life in a very personal and direct way. Before that time, I was very stoic and controlled. I guess the Lord knew I needed to "loosen up" and be willing to be more emotional about spiritual things. Bob | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 146 Registered: 1-2003 |
Bob how true, we need to allow God a deep work in each of us. He will open up areas we know nothing about to release His healing spirit. Many of us have grown up in academic and Type A environments, I believe God is sometimes saying get out of yourselves and let me "cuddle" and warm you in my arms. Guys you need to "get over it" and allow yourself to be vulnerble Please I do not mean this to be irreverent toward God but we need the joy of His presence to flow through us and bring us peace and joy. Worship for me is to encounter God. How many of us would sit in church like normal if God were to manifest Himself in our presence?? I have good news He is wanting us to have a greater more powerful encounter with Him on a daily basis. Most of us would not be able to understand or accept the great power He is willing to open to us. I hope there are times when you can not remain seated in His presence but must stand and give Him glory and times when you can do neither and must fall to your knees or flat on your face. I know it has happened to me and if I stopped to think about it I'd find it extremely embarrassing. Never ask God for more of His presence if you do not really mean it. You might be surprised when He answers your prayer. He doesn't always answer in a way from inside your "box of expectations". As you might have guessed I'm not one of those who feel the gifts of the first century are limited to that time. Sorry I let myself go on so long. If I'm not careful this will get much longer. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 469 Registered: 7-2004 |
Beautiful thoughts, Richard. Being "strong" is not just for you men...as a woman, I have always been uncomfortable to show emotion. I fight with all the strength I can muster to never show emotion in church when I feel moved. Thanks, to you and Bob, you have given me food for thought. It is time to get out of the box and show the love and affection that the Holy Spirit has in me. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 347 Registered: 3-2005 |
Bob and Richard, I have noticed the same emotions, especially since my wife's stroke 6 months ago, and also since this past Easter, after attending a truly uplifting Good Friday service. Some songs really cause me to tear up. Stan |
