| Author |
Message |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 465
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 2:34 pm: |     |
Great questions and thoughts...
I love the Ephesians text that Heretic shared. I believe PDL, SDA, LDS, JW...all of these religious "truths" can be used by God to lead each of us in our various walks on various paths into the open arms of our Lord. My favorite word of the month (after finishing my Bible study of Acts...Paul...the epistles) is SOVEREIGN!
I like that Paul began and ended most of his writings with "grace and peace" (ie. "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you" - 1 Thess. 5:28). Ultimately it is God's hold on my life and NOT my own weak effort to hold onto God that counts. Jesus said in John 10:28 that He gives eternal life... The further I remove myself from the religion of Adventism the more clearly I see how God has used the darkness of the religion to bring His light into my life. He uses many different venues and circumstance to bring His promise of eternal life into our lives.
Though the darkness of Adventism is real and is wrong, I believe God can use any foundation to move His children into a direct relationship with Him. This is true of books such as Purpose Driven Life. This is why I pray daily that the Holy Spirit speak HIS truths through me to anyone I come into contact with. He provides us all with His guidance in many different forms. This is why I believe so firmly and give my support and voice here on FAF.
"You also became imitators of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much tribulation with the joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became an example to all the believers...For the word of the Lord has sounded forth from you...also in every place your faith toward God has gone forth, so that we have no need to say anything" (1 Thess. 1:6-8). God uses many different avenues to bring His love into focus in our lives...from bondage to transformed lives...transformed lives are God's greatest tools! |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 466
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 2:37 pm: | |
Leigh,
Thanks for posting the Casting Crowns song...it is one of my very favorites...
"THE VOICE OF TRUTH TELLS ME A DIFFERENT STORY!!"
Give me Jesus! |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 343
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 5:01 pm: | |
Dd,
I agree wholeheartedly with your post above. I believe God has used even false religious systems, such as the ones you mentioned above, to bring His sheep to His pasture. But He doesn't leave us there. He leads us to a more perfect , understanding of His grace.
Melissa,
In response to your questions, at no time over the 3 months I have been posting here, have I ever been soft on Adventism. I believe that it is a different gospel. (By the way, at no time when making comments about PDL, did I ever say he was preaching a different gospel. I stated clearly, that I believe Rick is a Christian. But when he makes statements that are unbiblical, why is it wrong to point these statements out? No Christian teacher can ever be above Berean investigation.) Yes, I believe SDA doctrine is heretical. But in my post above, I was responding to a truly grace filled statement by Heretic above. I truly believe God worked sovereignly in my life when He placed me in the SDA church. I have been blessed beyond any imagination. We are created for His good pleasure, and not ours. The reason I rejoice in my SDA heritage, is because I now see what God did in my life, and the life of my Dad (the strictest SDA I knew), to now worship with my Dad and Mom at an evangelical church on Sunday mornings makes my heart rejoice beyond measure. He works it out in His own time. I am sorry Melissa, if my comments about PDL offended you and others. But I did want to let you know where I was coming from. I also pray for you and B.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2049
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 8:01 pm: | |
Gary Inrig, our pastor, has said that God allows heresy to creep into the church in order to drive believers to the Scriptures to learn what is true. (He actually said that in the context of talking to someone about Adventism.) Churches such as SDA, LDS, JW, etc., make more sense in the "big picture" when I think about that statement.
Heresy (dotrines of demons) is not new; Paul railed against it in his epistles. Overall, I find that as time passes, I'm becoming more comfortable in seeing other Christians hold differing views on the "non-essential" doctrines. I used to be uncomfortable, for example, at the thought of worshiping at a church that believes in a "secret rapture"! Etc. More and more I see differing ideas and interpretations and approaches to be simply interesting instead of worthy of "fixing".
Of course, I tend to have my personal views on many of these things, but I'm incresasingly less concerned with "fixing" people's views than I used to be.
That being said, I do find that I am becoming MORE outraged at the doctrines of demons that defined churches such as SDA, JW, LDS, etc. The more I read and study, the more convinced I am that Adventism (I'll use it as an example because I know it best) truly does twist the gospel, obscure the true identity of Jesus, and teach heresy about salvation. Even though many people in the church find Jesus IN SPITE of the church, the church itself is based on lies and is, in my opinion, spiritually dangerous.
I believe the reason "we" have a hard time sying these things "loud and clear", so to speak, is that it reflects so intimately on US. Quite frankly, it was years before I had enough objectivity and trust in Jesus to be able to declare it to be as dangerous as I now believe it to be. I suspect my passion about revealing these facts is increased because of Christianity's relative ignorance of these things.
I still remember the growing feelings I had of shame and chagrin at having been duped by a clever falsehood. And having been duped by something that externally looked so close to the real thing, it has made me more sensitive to noticing other potential "dupes".
I'm not advocating cruel labeling or defensive insistence that everyone see it my way! Loving support and understanding are the keys to helping people see the bigger picture. But truth must also be told.
I really understand where you're coming from, espcially from your perspective, Melissa.
Colleen |
Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 9:21 pm: | |
Thanks Stan and Dd. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm definitely not a gifted author but at least you "got" what I intended in my post about the sovereignty of God -- that He puts us where He wants us, when He wants us, with all of it to His glory! Stan, your Father's story is a perfect example of this. Rather than lamenting my past, I take joy in knowing that God's plan for me has been in place since before time began and it has helped me to move through these grief stages more expeditiously. I'm sorry if this is offensive to some. In no way was I condoning Adventism, treating it with "kid gloves" or suggesting that we stop telling the truth about it. Sorry if I managed to give that wrong impression. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 699
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 9:33 pm: | |
Heretic, I think you did word your post very well, and I thought it was a wonderful post. I'm not Melissa, but I don't think she was referring to your post or the ones following it, and I certainly wasn't. I think she may have been referring to the posts from before. 
Jeremy |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 345
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 9:41 pm: | |
Heretic,
Thank you again for what was amost inspiring post earlier this morning, as it really struck a chord in my heart, and, along with that song Leigh posted, really helped make my day. We can rejoice, Heretic, that God is truly sovereign, despite our circumstances, and He is to be praised!
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2052
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 10:29 pm: | |
Heretic, I wasn't referring to your post, either. In fact, I completely see my situation much the way you see yours. I actually thank God I was raised Adventist. I think I understand things and know Him in ways that would not be possible if I hadn't had this background.
I've often pondered that in His sovereignty, God placed me in a multigenerational SDA family BEFORE I ever came to be. This immersion was part of His plan and His shaping of me, and I can only thank Him for His grace in redeeming that past and in showing me the things He has wanted me to know as a result of being thoroughly Adventist.
I am in awe of God's sovereignty.
Colleen |
Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 107
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 4:56 am: | |
Thanks for the responses, guys -- all of them are appreciated. Now I see that I totally misread the situation. Sorry about that.
Heretic |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 283
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 7:25 am: | |
Colleen, in your post above, your use of the word "immersion" made me think - previously we were "immersed" in Adventism. Now, as Paul says in Romans, we are "immersed [baptized] into Christ" fully identified with Him in His death, burial and resurrection.
Everyone in this world is spirtually immersed in something - a religion, a lifestyle, a philosophy - but how much better to be immersed in Jesus!
Bob |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 346
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 8:03 am: | |
Amen, Bob.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2053
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 9:38 am: | |
No problem, Heretic--it's hard to pick up nuances without all the people in a conversation present with one another!
So true, Bob--everyone is immersed in something--but Jesus is the only immersion that really makes life work!
Colleen |
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