| Author | Message | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 430 Registered: 7-2004 |
I just received the newest addition of the NPUC Gleaner. The editorial by Jere Patzer, NPUC president, is titled "Excited to be a Seventh-day Advangelist". The focus of the editorial was teaching people about praising God on the one true Sabbath day - Saturday and what a blessing it is to have the special day with God. I looked up "Evangelist" in the dictionary - one who preaches or writes of any of the four Gospels. How sad to be proud of being an "Advangelist" rather than an "Evangelist"! Also...EGW is alive and well in this issue! Just browsing through I found 3 "ads" for something to do with "celebrating" her. WWC Campmeeting has Jim Nix, director of the EGW Estate as the keynote speaker. The NPUC Adventist Heritage Tour, "In the Footsteps of the Pioneers", features GC headquarters, EGW Estate, Washington, NH (birthplace of the SDA church), Bates, Smith, Harmon families' sites in New England, William Miller farm and Ascension Rock, Battle Creek's Adventist Heritage Village (the White gravesites). The last "ad" is a Faith in Focus Forums at the Mt. Ellis Academy Church in Bozeman entitled "Ellen White for the 21st Century" - topics include Ellen White and Last Day Events, Famous Last Words and Ellen White in the New Millenium. Cindy Tutsch, from the EGW Estate will present the weekend extravaganza! Just a little news tidbit on the happenings in the great Pacific Northwest... GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 241 Registered: 7-2004  |
Jere Patzer was the young intern pastor when I was baptized at age 12 in Reading, PA. I really liked his wife (I think her name is Sue). I remember her as being a very kind lady who showed care and interest in us kids. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 431 Registered: 7-2004 |
i babysat the Patzer's two young boys when I was in academy over 25 years ago. Sue was a confidant when I had boy trouble in college. You remember correctly. She is a very sweet person. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1439 Registered: 3-2004  |
Dd, as you said, Just give me Jesus. I do not need any one else. Jesus is awesome. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 547 Registered: 1-2003 |
Well, the latest Review glorifies prominent SDA's and their accomplishments. Talk about respecting of persons! It always was a "who's who" organization. Give me Jesus too! | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2005 |
Dd, For many years I have known that what SADventism calls "evangelism" is NOT evangelism. Not true evangelism anyway. The first time the word "Evangelist" is used in the Bible is Acts 21:8; then 2 Tim 4:5. The word "Evangelists" plural is used once in Eph 4:11 It is the same Greek word "euaggelistes (you-ang-ghil-is-tace) It has only one meaning: "a preacher of the Gospel." There is also the word Proselyte (tes). It is used four times in the Bible: Mt 23:5; Acts 6:5; Acts 2:10; 13:43. Proselutos - was an arriver from a foreign region - specifically - a convert to Judaism. There is another word and practice which I am convinced is the correct word which SADventists should be using if they are to be correct and honest. That word is Proselytize. Webster defines it as: "a person who has been converted from one religion to another or from one belief, sect, party, to another." Proselytism is the act or practice of proselytizing. Now let me ask you: When SADventist preachers announce their "evangelistic" meetings; what do they usually call them? I think I am pretty much on target in saying the majority "seem" to be called Prophecy Seminars, or Revelation Lectures, etc. and not "evangelistic series." I do know years ago we were told that if we ever put the name of the church on our advertisements, it should appear in very tiny print at the very bottom where most people would not notice it. Does Billy Graham hide his name or the fact that he is a Baptist preacher whenever he holds a crusade? The primary message of all SADventist public meetings or Prophetic Revelation Seminars, is NOT Acts 16:31, but the Catholic Church changing Sabbath to Sunday (which we now know they are not guilty of doing); the Mark of the Beast, the Sabbath, God's True Prophet, and God's True Church, and then of course the lesser subjects, but still included in Adventist "proselytizing" - such as tithing, state of the dead, smoking, alcohol, diet reform, the evils of wearing jewelry, attending movies, dancing, - the whole litany of SADventism's "Do and Don't" religion. Their primary object is to baptize into SADventism, all the people who are members of other churches or not members of any. The PRIMARY message is NOT to save lost souls for the Kingdom of God! I know this by personal experience! The message is: "The Church, the Church, the Church," Not, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! And not What Must You Do to be Saved?! either. Recently an Adventist pastor I am attemting to share the authentic Gospel with, mentioned a series of meetings his district held in which a professional Proselytizer did the speaking. He said what made him feel good about this man's presentation is that they were Christ centered. How can you have Christ the center of a sectarian belief system? He considers me one that has been "shaken out" and one of Egg White's "bright lights" that has gone out. Ever stop to consider if all "we bright lights" leave the church, what is left? Dim lights, right? :c) So you are correct: SADventists do NOT evangelize or conduct evangelism. All they do and all they seek to do is PROSELYTIZE. Make SADventists out of people who are not SADventists. Not bring them to Jesus. A good example of what to preach is found in Mark 1:14,15. It appears the ONLY subject that Jesus put on His advertisement flyers! I'll step down from my apple crate now. But please don't forget to drop something in the tin cup before you go your way. :c) Jess | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 862 Registered: 7-2003  |
And B wants nothing to do with being called "evangelical", which he thinks is an extremist form of non-Biblical christianity. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1883 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, Melissa, there is a huge portion of Adventists who, for one reason or another, consider "evangelicals" to be Bible-thumping anti-intellectuals. "Fundamentalists", they call us with some spite. Truth is SO blurred inside their sanctuary... Sigh. Praise God for Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1449 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have been thinking as I read the above. Yeah, surprise, surprise, I do think once in a while  I used to wear what I called EGW lens/glasses. Now I think that the frames are EGW, but the lens are demonic. I say this because of the way the SDAs on the R/S site responded to those of us who posted there. It is like Satan had a hold of their hearts and minds and would not let them see the truth. It is something that only Jesus can break down. He conquered Satan at the cross and there is no controversy going on now. Jesus is the victor and Satan is defeated. Thank you Jesus. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 53 Registered: 1-2005 |
Colleen, Adventists calling others "Fundamentalists" in spite? Now that's FUNNY! If any group fits the description, it's SDAs, and to a 'T'. Withdrawing from the world? Check. Seeking "core" truths? Check. Applying logic to ludicrous ends? Check. Feelings of imminent annihilation? Check. Apoccalyptic visions? Check. Religion trumping practical reality? Check. Founded in a time of spiritual crisis? Check. Keepers of the gate to eternal life? Check. Fringe, demanding leadership? Check. Ok, ok, I could go on for hours here, but I'll stop. Oh wait, one more, just one more, I promise: Danger of youth leaving? Check. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 311 Registered: 3-2004  |
On another thread, Heretic pointed us to take a look at Dr SBís latest newsletter. While there, I glanced over the previous issues. Iíve found that you can sort of use SB as a barometer to know what all is wearing on the powers that be. Issue 115 states the following about the Adventist Identity Crisis: ìÖour Adventist identity has three major components: theological, existential, and liturgical, that is to say, our doctrines, lifestyle, and worship. What we believe, how we live, and how we worship, has traditionally defined our identity. We have seen ourselves as a remnant people called to live a temperate and holy lifestyle, in order to proclaim the final message of warning (three angel messages) to mankind.î He briefly touches on those before focusing on the horror of contemporary worship. From this article you can see the inroads that FAs are making in pointing to fallacies. The problem, as I see it with so many SDAs, is that this whole thing is about ìAdventistî identify. Itís not about uplifting Jesus Christ or a Christian identity. Even SB totally misses the point, calling people back to a list of behaviors, not to Jesus. This makes me wonder how much longer these ìAdvangelistsî are going to succeed. The liberal, cultural SDAs are certainly making it difficult for the Advangelists to promote a ìtemperate and holy lifestyle.î Letís up the prayers for the GC coming up shortly. We need the Holy Spirit to show up to sincere individuals in a mighty way. Oh, that they may see themselves and their denomination with the eyes that we do now looking backwards! Praise GodÖ | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 312 Registered: 3-2004 |
Oops! I forgot how to edit posts. Here's the link: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/et_115.htm | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 554 Registered: 1-2003 |
I personally think Jesus is using contemporary music (predominately Baptist writers/performers, by the way) to reach SDA's. Praise music really really reached me with the Gospel and it has affected my husband too. I think that is why they (SDA) are so desperate to keep it out of their churches! | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 313 Registered: 3-2004 |
Donít get me started on music! Maybe I was just slow or something, but I never understood what it even was to ìworshipî or ìpraiseî within the SDA system until I was starting to process out, although I didnít realize thatís what it was at first. I so agree with you Pheeki. And Iím not just speaking about contemporary. How many times have you a heard a slow, powerful rendition of Amazing Grace, for instance, at churches who really understands what it means to worship? About three years ago I happened to sit next to someone at a conference who I pegged as a youth pastor by his appearance. Turned out heís a senior pastor of a hip hop church. The air force paid the way for his group to fly to Korea and tour various bases. They told them they couldnít preach or say anything religious. WellÖ.duhÖ.rap music tells a story! So the Air Force paid their way to Korea to tell the Gospel and they didnít even realize it. He said many, many people approached them at the end of concerts and they could then talk to them and bring them to salvation. Now, personally speaking, rap music isnít my thing. But when my granddaughter mentioned that friends at her Christian school were listening to secular hip hop, I couldnít pass up a teaching moment so I took my two grandkids to the hip hop church one Sunday. It was an excellent sermon to reach those heís been called to reach. He spoke about how Christianity has absolutes and now itís getting very popular for celebrities to say things that sound very Christian one day and turn around and do very corrupt behavior the next. Used a video skit theyíd prerecorded to bring home a powerful message in a fun way. On my emailing journey for finding a church home I happened to connect this week with a pastor from a new church plant who is also using rap near a university. He sent me a URL from a newspaper article about them and asked my opinion. Then he was totally shocked when I encouraged him. That tells me our pastors are dealing with sheep with fangs if they try something new. I believe Jesus was really quite radical and would be if he were here on earth today. Praise GodÖ | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2005 |
I love a wide variety of music - both religious and secular. The SDA Church I used to attend used a mixture of "old" hymns and "praise" type songs. While I loved singing both, I never really felt the power and impact of them in the congregational singing. The Church I attend now also uses both the "old" hymns and "praise" music. But the POWER and WORSHIP that I now feel is amazing, beyond words. We sing with all our hearts and souls on fire for Christ. You can hear it in the enthusiasm of the singing. And this pertains to both styles of songs. The "old hymns just come alive when we sing them. The "praise" songs are so relevant to my life. I think what makes the difference is not the style of song - old or new -, it's that we are really singing from a place of knowing and loving Jesus, of having a real personal relationship with Him. In the SDA Churches I've attended, the singing was done as though it was just a portion of the service to get through before the sermon! No emotion, just bored singing. And even though I loved singing, I felt so pulled down by the atmosphere of gloom that I couldn't really "feel" the emotions, the joy and exhilaration, the power that singing about Jesus can have. Our little church of about 100 make more "noise" with their heartfelt singing than any large SDA Church I've been in! It is such a blessing each week! And to think I never knew this joy before now! I want everyone I know to have this freedom and excitement in really knowing Jesus. -tisha | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1888 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great Points PraiseGod... Speaking of powerful worship with traditional musicóevery year at the school where I taught recently the board held a dinner for the faculty a few days after graduation. Every year the evening ended with all in attendance standing and singing three or four verses of "Great Is They Faithfulness" a cappella. Every year I would cry while we sang. As always since entering the Christian community, I was overwhelmed by the enthusiasm and deep worship with which everyoneóincluding all the menósang. People would sing harmony, and the room was always filled with a sense of the presence of God. Think of the words--"Great is Thy faithfulness, O God my Father; There is no shadow of turning in Thee. Thou changest not, They compassions, they fail not--As Thou has been, Thou forever wilt be... "Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth, Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide, Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow--Blessings all mine with ten thousand beside! "Great is Thy faithfulnness! Great is Thy faithfulness! Morning by morning new mercies I see; All I have needed Thy hand hath provided--Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me!" People did not merely sing the song. They praised God and worshiped him while they sang. Last year, (my last such dinner because I resigned in order to do Proclamation!),Richard said to me, "The thing I'm going to miss the most is singing 'Great Is Thy Faithfulness' after this dinner every year." Knowing Jesus makes music something entirely new. It's no longer about performance; it's about praising God. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 559 Registered: 1-2003 |
Praise God. I feel the same way as you. I often tear up during praise time and feel lifted by the Holy Spirit. I love it. I get mad at my family for making me late for praise time! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 186 Registered: 8-2004 |
Yes, Tisha, I think there is a world of difference between 'singing' a song, and actually worshipping God thru song. I also think that the big arguments people get into about what kind of music is 'appropriate' often misses the point. The devil can twist any type of music, and God does not restrict himself to using only the music we 'approve'. I have some strong personal preferences where music is concerned, and I do believe there is 'evil music' - where the devil has taken something God created and twisted it almost unrecognizably. However, the issue isn't whether it is old or new, loud or quiet, fast or slow, intellectual or emotional. It isn't whether it appeals more to the young or the old, the poor or the rich, the ethnic, the local, or the foreigner. It isn't whether it's folk, or rock, or classical, or country, or any number of other genres. The issue is: does it lift up Jesus or tear him down? to what (or who) does it draw your thoughts? does it promote sin or righteousness? does it build you up or discourage you? How are you using it? to drown in? to encourage yourself (and/or others)? to express hatred or love? kindness or torture? hope or dispair? Is it part of the "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable"(Phil 4:8) . . . or not? Mary | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 54 Registered: 1-2005 |
I remember looking at the words that we used to sing, and it seemed to me that at least 90% of the words were always talking about how we were going to praise God, but not about how to actually praise God, or they didn't praise God directly, at least the words themselves. For example: "Praise God from whom all blessings flow..." Ok, ok, I'll praise God; but how exactly do I praise God? What's the magic formula? What am I supposed to say or sing? "Rejoice in the Lord always"? Ok, now I'm back at square one. I guess people should already know how to praise God before they start singing. Funny, I didn't know that when I was younger. | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 40 Registered: 3-2005 |
Mary, you are so right about how to choose our music - does it lift up Jesus? I think in all the judgementalism about "appropriate" music that is forgotten. Weimarred, now when I sing "Praise God from Whom all blessings flow" I'm singing it as "Praise be to God" and feel a real appreciation for what God has done for me. The song comes from deep within as a heartfelt praise. "Rejoice in the Lord always" I now sing with such joy. The words have meaning that I just didn't comprehend in such a visceral way before knowing Christ intimately. It was "head" knowledge not "heart" knowledge. I finally UNDERSTAND "Amazing Grace"! Since I now have a real relationship with Christ, my singing has a completely different feeling to it. It feels genuine rather than just going through the motions. And the singing just reinforces my thankfulness for all God has done for me. It keeps getting better! -tisha |
