| Author | Message | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 51 Registered: 1-2005 |
Looking back on my SDA education, particularly high school (I went to mostly multi-denominational elementary schools), Iím struck by how arid it was. I had very little clue about anything in life, until I joined the Army, where I was ěbaptized by fireî, having to learn the practical lessons of life, and very quickly! Thatís all introductory, what I really want to ask is, what were you as an Adventist taught about history? After all, the history of humanity is very relevant to what happens today, and to that whole ěnot repeating our mistakesî thing. Iíve always been an avid reader, and I like to think I have a somewhat good grasp of a lot of history. But itís dawned on me that none of this knowledge came from my SDA education, other than the merest of rudiments. The sum of my Adventist history teaching consisted of: Biblical ěhistoryî Some U.S. history, with emphasis on the separation of church and state The great Saturday-Sunday conspiracy (of course!) The Disappointment and the Great Disappointment (were there really 2, like I was taught?) Conspiracy 101, including Jesuits, the Illuminati, Pyramid logy, etc, etc, etc. Some sort of secret lineage of remnant churches down through the ages (which I never quite understood) Itís this last in particular that gets me now. It wasnít taught so much in high school, necessarily, as it was everywhere else that we as Adventists might go. The hymns that we sung, the sermon from the pulpit, the discussions we had on Sabbath afternoons, the selected EGW readings at family worship, blah blah. It was all about this terrible, depraved persecution of people who somehow held the secret banner of ěremnantsî (Huguenots in particular come to mind. Also, things like how the persecutors would lower the fire so as not to burn the condemned, but rather to boil the blood, and prolong the agony). Why were these people ěremnantî if they didnít act like Adventists do? How did Adventists come to claim the ěremnantî banner? Why must the ěremnantsî go through an even worse period of trial and tribulation before Jesus can put in His second advent? Why this tremendous, all-consuming persecution complex? And above all else, why would an almighty God lead His people through such a grueling, secretive process of prolonged damnation to get to this glorious thing called eternal life? (Do you remember the whole ěred hems on white robesî thing?) This whole thing does sound disturbingly cultish, a picking and choosing from the Bible and from history, with plenty of extra-biblical additions courtesy of one EGW. And it sounds like a complete and noxious ignorance of all other reality, whether this outside reality is good or not. Like we used to joke in high school, ěI wonder what itís like out there in the real world?î Well, Iím glad I found out. For those left behind, fortunately, itís not ěOnce to every Adventistî, but rather, the Spirit and logic will constantly move upon them to come out of their bondage! I just pray that they do. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 555 Registered: 1-2003 |
My husband was schooled SDA all his life and he tells me he knows nothing of history (world, especially) or geography. And he is a smart guy, has a master's degree, etc. He wonders why these subjects weren't stressed, they were barely covered. You are not the only one Weimmered. I spent 2-years in grade school and 2-years in high school out of the SDA system. I learned all kinds of history and geography while in High School...so I don't feel so deprived. My husband seriously feels he was done a disservice by the SDA educational system. | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 236 Registered: 7-2000  |
I went to SDA schools from two years in academy through seminary, and I think I got a well-rounded education in history. I had some very good history teachers. I like history, and enjoy reading it, so maybe that had a lot to do with it. Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1887 Registered: 12-2003  |
I think I actually had good history classes in academy. I remember American hsitory from David Thornsbury, and, although I didn't really like history at the time, I do remember actually studying American history in quite a lot of detail--using a secular textbook. I also remember having world history in ninth grade and having an "aha!" moment when I realized that ancient Rome and Greece were the cultures prevalent during the end of the OT and during the time of Jesus. I didn't get quite as much of the remnant horror stories as you did, Tom--but what I did get came via Bible classes as opposed to history. I remember studying about the Waldenses, Huegenots, etc. and having the persecution complex pretty firmly instilled in me. It just didn't come via history classes for me. I have to admit that church history was badly skewed in my education. It's only been recently that I've begun to see how the church actually had a clear beginning at Pentecost and has continued unbroken (the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!) through the millennia despite many movements of men to slice, dice, and confuse its identity. My great regret is over not having a clearer understanding of the church as it has flourished and suffered as a part of history. I'm beginning to realize how rich a a tradition there has been for centuries of godly men and women who have known Jesus and have suffered great personal loss and danger for the sake of Jesus within the political climates of their days. This understanding is what I regret not having long ago. Colleen | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 55 Registered: 1-2005 |
I do think that most Adventists are raised "to be martyrs". In fact, I've seen the oldsters heave a collective sigh of relief, a "Phew, the Tribulation won't come in my time!", immediately followed by a "But the Tribulation's going to come in you youngsters' generation, so watch out! And turn off that Devil music!" | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 561 Registered: 1-2003 |
They better not breathe a sigh yet. My mom used to tell me that those who were too old or weak to young to stand the time of trouble would be "taken out" by God right before it starts. Talk about paranoia! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 242 Registered: 7-2004  |
Yes, Pheeki, I've heard that stated almost anytime there's an untimely death of an SDA, such as an auto accident of a young person. "Well, God knew they couldn't handle the time of trouble..." Makes it seem it's almost like a mercy killing. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 432 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, I had Mr. Tbury for history, too. I remember as a freshman being scared to death of having class from him. He seemed very unfriendly and tough. The rumors were true...he was very tough! But, I think I can remember more from his class than any other class I had at PAA. He and Mrs. Tbury came to my 25th class reunion last year. They both look exactly the same. They are retired and seem to smile more than I remember  . They both are very well respected and loved by alumni. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1890 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dd, interesting to hear that about Mr. Tbury! It makes me happy to hear they smiled more--he always posed with a gruff face--and it was always just a pose! You're right, though--he stands out in my mind as one of my best academy teachers. I also remember Don McConnell and his chemistry teaching. I learned a lot from him, too--and of course, the English teacher we all loved to hate, Thelma Winter! (But she WAS good!) Sometimes I think about how my students remember me--I just can't go there! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 563 Registered: 1-2003 |
I went to a drug rep. dinner and the speaker was from Loma Linda Medical Center. It turns out he isn't SDA, but it brought up the subject of Loma Linda and Adventitsts and because of that I found out there were 3 other former SDA's at the dinner. We got to talking about SDAism, and some very interesting things were said. We talked about the fear we were raised with and one man said he just knew he wasn't going to be able to grow up...and my husband added..."I actually thought about not going to college, it was pointless." The two ladies, who were sisters, stated they were no longer SDA. One still occasionally attends a very liberal SDA church (same one my brother attends) but has a lot of problems with Ellen White, though she admits she hasn't really read much of what she wrote. Her sister had read Ellen and she said she believed her health message but the rest of the stuff she wrote she couldn't agree with...she says she simply can't stomach attending an SDA church anymore. What a small world. The sister that still attends occasionally said what she found neat about SDAism is that everyone knows everyone...you can go to almost any town and find someone who knows someone you know. I think feels she is part of an elite club,really. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 401 Registered: 7-2004 |
Pheeki, you bring up a good point. You said something above that I've noticed in several of the formers I've known. Once you wash out of the SDA church, you have a sort of phobia of walking back into one. You grit your teeth and go to Aunt Martha's funeral. You take a valium and attend cousin Lucy's wedding. That sort of thing. It's like you can sense that there is a threatening spirit there and you just don't want to sit inside that building. Has this been true for any of you? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 565 Registered: 1-2003 |
I would rather be boiled in oil. | ||
| Melinda Registered user Username: Melinda Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2005 |
I get a wierd feeling every time I go to the Village Market on SAU's campus. It is like entering a whole different culture. I used to feel just fine there but not anymore. I only go when I need more granola ingredients. It's sad, really. Everyone there always looks so oppressed. I wish they could experience the freedom of God's grace instead of works, works, works! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1895 Registered: 12-2003 |
I experience the same feeling. One day when I was still teaching at Arrowhead Christian Academy, a colleague of mine who has been a Christian all her life but has become more aware of the problems of Adventism since knowing me confided that she had gone to the LLU Market to get something hard to find elsewhere. Now you must understand that this lady has such an aversion to gossip of any sort that she will avoid even making comments about situations which seem obvious if it means she might have to say something critical. At any rate, she said to me, "I have to admit there's a really uncomfortable feeling in that place." I thought that "feeling" was something we formers were especially sensitive to, but my friend owned it with no provocation on my part. Yes, that aversion is real, and it's not just in our heads, I'm convinced! Praise God for calling us to Himself! Colleen | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2005 |
I have to smile at this conversation. Tomorrow I am entering the local SDA church - because a friend (who happens to be the pastor's wife) asked my daughter to sing for church. It also happens to be potluck and I've been asked to help with it. My total coming out must not have been broadcast to everyone yet! (I "divorced" myself from the SDA church once and for all in February of this year - but my husband is still a member.) But at the same time - I know that a particular sabbath school class has been praying for me - because my sister-in-law goes there - and I am sitting here imagining the thrill that will go through some people's heart when they see me walk through the doors of the church. But it is not the kind of thrill I want them to have. A part of me is very afraid that it will send the message that I am "coming back". Does that make sense? There are wonderful people there - particularly the women I worked with in women's ministry, yet - I am dreading this so soon after having made the commitment to part ways once and for all. I almost feel as if I will "taint" myself. As I write that - I cringe that I would even think that thought - but it's how I'm feeling at the moment. I know I'll survive - but it is nice to know that I am not alone in feeling the discomfort of the experience. However, I will focus on my daughter and her gift of song - be as gracious as possible and smile a lot! | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2005 |
P.S. - I had a great education in history at SDA schools. My dad was a history teacher - and I well remember a Professor Walter Utt at PUC - who was an amazing history teacher. It was "future" history that was a little screwy! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1909 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lindylou, I completely understand your feelings about tomorrow. No doubt tongues will wag! But you have the Holy Spirit in you, and the light of Christ is in your face. You will literally be taking the presence of Jesus with you when you go, and He will guard your heart and give you words to speak. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2005 |
LindyLou, I hope the service went ok, and wasn't too uncomfortable. It sure is odd to walk back into it once you've left it, even in passing. Whenever I'm around SDAs, I'm always thinking of the old things, and it has the added slant of my new ways. For example, I always seem to be smoking or eating pork in front of them. I try not be insensitive on the one hand, but on the other hand, I want to holler at them "There's more important things in life to worry about!" But I have to remind myself, THIS IS THEIR LIFE! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1461 Registered: 3-2004  |
LindyLou, How did it go yesterday? I am sure God was with you and helped you in every way that was needed. He is wonderful and awesome about that, providing what you need, when you need it, especially when you are witnessing for Him. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 380 Registered: 4-2000  |
I just finished reading an interview with Ravi Zacharias that was published in DECISION magazine, March, 2002. (http://www.rzim.org/noindex/jtprint.php?seqid=83) In the last paragraph of this five-page interview, Ravi makes this very interesting comment: "Among former Muslims who are now Christians, more than 90 percent of those with whom I have talked have come to know Christ through a dream or a vision." Wow, Ravi's report verifies anew the calling and election of all believers. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 260 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dennis, Ravi is terrific, and I thought I had read it before, and now you confirm it--That's what I love about this forum, somebody always comes up with the answers to questions, and in your case, before I asked it. Also, I agree that this confirms that God will elect and call those to salvation, even if humans don't necessarily get there to preach the gospel. "The stones will cry out"! God is indeed sovereign over all! Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1915 Registered: 12-2003 |
So true--God calls all who are His. Thanks for the report and link, Dennis. And Romans 1:18-20 confirms that no man is without excuse--God doesn't depend upon us to reach every human ourselves. He certainly asks us to speak for Him, but God does what we cannot do. I'm so thankful and relieved to KNOW He is sovereign! Colleen |
