| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1213 Registered: 3-2004  |
I am thinking as I read all the above posts that you folks that have posted on R/S have posted Biblical truths and it was getting uncomfortable with the pastor for whatever reason. But what you posted was Biblical, there for every one to see. There are lurkers there, just like there are on here. We have all said that only God knows who is reading all that was happening there. If none of us posts there again, the seed has been planted. God will cultivate His garden, water and feed it. Of that I am sure. Maybe Pastor O'Ffill will be one of those who responds. He has a grandson who loves him so much and who is praying for him, I am sure. My whole point, that I am going about in a round about way is God is still in charge. His sheep will hear his voice and follow Him. So, as we have all said, let us continue to pray for the folks on the R/S web site. Just to be able to witness there was very interesting. Diana | ||
| Jan Registered user Username: Jan Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2005 |
Colleen--Would you please explain this statement? "I know Adventists in graduate-level teaching/preaching positions in SDA institutions who do not subscribe to Jesus as Sovereign Lord." Also, please elaborate on the Trinity issue in Adventism. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've been over at R/S reading through some posts under the "Town Hall" heading and have run across a truly chilling statement made by Walk_In_The_Light. This statement was made by him toward the end of January, and it is under a thread regarding the relevancy of quoting EGW. Please keep this in mind when you are dealing with him. ---------- "I do not see it so much that I use her writings above the scriptures, but in lieu of the Scriptures. They were given to a people who were set apart by God for a special end-time purpose." ---------- This looks like an absolute statement of position and purpose and will enable us to know from which direction he is coming at all times. Give me Jesus and Give me Scripture Only! Belva | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 87 Registered: 2-2005 |
I've felt at times I was fighting against the devil on RS. After seeing that quote from colporteur, now I know why. This is further evidence that some are attracted to Adventism precisely because of EGW's writings. They so want there to be a hidden revelation from God that isn't found in the Scriptures. They want to be part of the 144,000 at the end of time, but a worldwide Christian movement makes that dream impossible. The only way it all works for them is to have knowledge that very few people believe in, or in fact ridicule. They wear the ridicule as a badge of honor and further proof that only a few remnant believers will be saved. The powerful grip this thinking has on some people--to the point where they will walk away from the Bible--is a testament to the very real presence of Satan in this world. Thank God for His Word, Greg | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 308 Registered: 5-2002 |
in LIEU of the Scriptures???!!!! | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 309 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm going to appropriate an old tag line for Porsche automobiles... The Word of God... there is no substitute! | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 176 Registered: 5-2004  |
Wow... Try that on for size  Praise God for Jesus, His Word, and His freedom! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 55 Registered: 3-2005 |
HE lOVES ME 2, AND Susan, Im glad you liked the www.johnbunyan.org site. I find it very fascinating and his stuff on the Sabbath is great, so I have re-linked it as it is now in the archives. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1621 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jan, I know one person who has said to me that he not only doesn't believe in EGW, he doesn't really know what he believes in--but he believes he can "make a difference", so he stays. This person (and here it's hearsay) also told a mutual acquaintance (according to the mutual acquaintance) that during his seminary years, he realized that he could no longer believe in Jesus, and he went out one night far from campus and cried over his loss. I cannot verify the last anecdote, but I've no reason to doubt it, and it fits with the statement he made to me. I know a pastor who has not specifically stated his beliefs about Jesus to me, but he has had several conversations which leave us little room for doubt that his understanding of Jesus is not Biblical. He is the one who told us that the second half of Jeremiah was written AFTER Jesus had come, so the prophecies were accurate because they were written after the fact. (He studied Old Testament from Jewish scholars.) As for the Trinity, early Adventists were anti-Trinitarian, including James White. Ellen never really clarified whether he was truly eternal God or not. Some things she wrote seemed to confirm His eternal deity; some things denied it. She referred to Him as an angel at various times, and she said God exalted Him to a position next to Himself. Satan, she said, was jealous because God exalted Jesus and not him. But one doesn't "exalt" God. He IS exalted. The church did not become predominantly trintiarian until after Ellen and the early founders died. They did not adopt a Trinitarian doctrine officially until 1946. Today many ADventists are questioning the orthodox belief in the Trinity; some are returning to an anti-trinitarian belief; others are trying to re-define it. Some explain it almost as three separate Gods who cooperated with salvation. Among Adventist lay persons, the Trinity is assumed, but in reality most Adventists really do not see Jesus as sovereign, almighty God. They likewise have trouble with the idea that His blood was necessary for our salvation. They have trouble really honoring the Jesus of Scripture, sensing Him as somehow "less-than" or "softer than" or "more loving than" God the Father. Further, many if not most Adventists think of the Holy Spirit as IT instead of HIM. The Trinity is murky at best in Adventism. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1696 Registered: 11-2002 |
Having been raised SDA I will share how as a child I was taught about the Trinity. My elderly SDA mother still believes it this way. First of all I want to make clear that in my childhood home Jesus was not refrenced to as God. He was/is referred to as our example for peferct obedience. Jesus resisted temptation, was fully human and did not sin so as our example we SHOULD be able to do likewise. In my SDA upbringing the word SHOULD is used alot! The Holy Spirit is a term very seldom used in my parents home, if ever. Infact, I cannot recall ever hearing a reference to the Holy Spirit in my parents home that was brought up in the conversation by them. The term "God" is used frequently and in a rather generic/Christian reference, actually more as a Creator/a Genesis 1:1 type of refeence. Once many years ago I asked my mm to explain The Trinity to me. She told me it should be an easy concept for me to understand because I am an only child. Just like my day is head over our home the analogy would be to God the father. Second in chage would be Jesus and I could put her (my mom) into that place for the analogy to make since because Jesus had to submit to the Father and Jesus prayed to The Father, etc. Then at Penticost like when they had their baby girl, me, God and Jesus left behind the Holy Spirit to help them (God and Jesus) here on earth while they were in heaven building our mansions and getting things up there ready for after Jesus comes back to earth to get his commanment keepers and bring them to their eternal homes, which after 1000 years wll be moved back to earth. It's totally screwey but nonetheless that is how I was taught and that is how my mother to his day believes. Which to me seems like three gods in decending order of importance. One more comment-my mom believes the teaching of the Trinity as most of Chrstianity teaches it is because of the influence of the Pope/Catholicism to somehow get people to look at the Trinity and away from the commandments. Yep, even the understanding of he Trinity gets back to the observence of the weekly Sabbath. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 728 Registered: 7-2003  |
I am aware of a SDA minister who has a doctorate in OT studies. They privately state that the Bible is not reliable and can't be considered to be the word of God anymore than any other so called "Holy book" used in other religions. They believe the stories compiled in the OT are mostly myths. Even more amazing, this individual appears to be some what agnostic, but thinks that if there really is a loving god somewhere out there, then such a god will surely save everyone universally. It is impossible for me to understand how and why individuals with such views continue to participate in religion. It seems to just be playing church to me. Chris | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 133 Registered: 8-2004 |
Maybe because it's a job, and they get to be 'scholars'? I've wondered about many liberal 'experts' regarding this, For example, why do the 'Jesus semenar' people keep trying to find a way to fit Jesus to their specs? Why don't they just find something the DO believe in? helovesme2 | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 177 Registered: 5-2004 |
I stopped by the R/S website today and found this piece by Walk. Thought you all would appreciate one of the few times he speaks the truth...in the last line. **** The very fact that you are even posing the question to me is shameful, but I will answer you the best way I can. Right now, you could probably believe that pigs can fly and remain in good and regular standing in this denomination. Clearly there are many like you who do not believe in the Lord's prophet EW yet they hold positions of prominence. So obviously the answer is no, one must not profess belief in EW as a reqiusite qualification for remaining in good and regular standing in the Adventist faith. I'm not sure one would feel comfortable disbelieving in her gift yet remain in this faith though. I would even go as far to say that if you didnt believe in her prophetic status, you would better serve the Lord and your brothers and sisters by finding another denomination. **** And this after someone was defending Greg and saying that while being Adventist, they've done their research and now can't believe in EGW. He asked if Walk saw a problem with staying SDA. | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 178 Registered: 5-2004 |
And here's the reply. Good work Guys! Looks like God's been watering the seeds you've been planting. **** Posted by Truth Seeker Walk, My goodness, is it possible for you to draft just one post that isn't insulting by design? Many thanks for making such light of my struggles. But thank you also for answering my question, as barbed as your response was. The message comes across loud and clear: "Blindly accept whatever we tell you or get out of my church -- honest questions and concerns serves no other purpose than to put you on the road to damnation." If this is the predominate view in the church then your advice is sounding pretty good about now. And again, I wonder why so many are so virulent about not questioning anything. What is it that they're so afraid of people discovering? I'm a little surprised that every other SDA in this forum, with the exception of myself, seems to subscribe to your view regarding this as no one has stated otherwise. **** | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2004 |
There are two Adventists on R/S that are born-again Christians from their posts. Truth Seeker and Bill Mead. It's Friday, and our prayers for our brother Adventists begin at sunset. Please, everyone, include these two precious souls to an extra measure in your prayers. We all should pray, too, for the posters Walk and Colporteur because their acid-dipped pens show how far to the other side they have gone. I'm going to go invite Truth Seeker to have a look over here. Maybe he missed the link on how to get here. He could probably use some true support about now. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 455 Registered: 10-2004  |
Susan, I remember growing up in the SDA cult, seeing a picture drawn in sort of a triangle or something with "God" (maybe "Father") at the top and "Jesus" (maybe "Son") and "Holy Spirit" at the bottom. This is sort of a faint memory for me. Does anyone else remember anything like this? I do have a letter from my (now deceased) SDA Grandmother where she drew a heart and put "God" at the top and "Jesus" and "Holy Spirit" at the bottom. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1630 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, I remember the triangle! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 736 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, the triangle is a relatively common symbol (and analogy) for the Trinity. However, like all analogies it falls far short of chapturing the entirety of what scripture teaches about the Trinity and even gives some wrong impressions (as you allude to). I am not a fan of using analogies for the Trinity because while they may help to clarify a certain point they end up corrupting some part of the truth that scripture teaches. I am a bit passionate about this topic because it was only after leaving Adventism that I began an in depth personal search for exactly what the Bible had to say on the Trinity. I grew up with a distinctly tritheistic understanding of the Trinity. I believed that the Father, Son, and Spirit were kind of like a family and that they were so close in their thoughts, attitudes, and purpose that they were ALMOST LIKE one. In other words I paid lip service to the idea of their being only one God, but I treated this truth as a kind of metaphor instead of a reality describing the Being of God. Functionally, I was a tritheist. Chris | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1705 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have been reading once again on Pastor O'Fills site. Belva, yesterday Walk says, "Welcome back from your silence on R/S and your FAF antigonism". Funny. I have never read anything antigonistic writen by you. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. And also yesterday Walk says "we are attracted to a religion that reflects our lifestyles, and some are attracted to error as bees are to honey." I found this statement very interesting. I guess s/he is correct in that assessment as far as I am concerned. I tend to be a very accepting person towards others. Sometimes I can be "too giving" if you know what I mean. If you reading this don't know what I mean then ask and I'll explain. However, back to the topic. I think I was/am very attracted to holding my membership at the Lutheran church because it does fit very well with my lifestyle. The people over there are so very non-judgemental and caring and big-hearted that is it just mind-blowing. There have been a few things I have heard in sermons that I have thought wewe a bit inaccurate but generally those few things were of no great theological debate and I sloshed them off. When I lived in Hawaii I attended the little Baptist church in town and I found that same grace and acceptance there that I have found at the Lutheran here in Ca. So, I would say Walk is correct in that assessment. Growing up SDA I did not find a lot of acceptance with the many different personalities that make up humanity. Heck, one can't even be baptized SDA if s/he is still smoking. That is just one example of a religion that reflects my understanding and lifestyle. No, I don't smoke. What I am referring to is that I believe it is wrong to deny God's grace to those who do smoke. It is not the churches place to do that. Encourage non-smoking as a healthier way to live (also more econiminal) but it should not be a reason to deny church membership. That is what I mean. As far as her/him saying people are attracted to error like a bee is to honey all I can say is, if the shoe fits wear it. Wear it with pride. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1224 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan, I say this tongue in cheek, and with some sarcasm, but the SDAs have a club. You know you are a member if you carry a Bible to church, show up for Sabbath School, stay for church and for communion every 3 months, and pay tithe. At least that was the way it was when I was last a member. But, one was not always accepted, if they did not have the proper credentials. I graduated LLU, and I was not accepted. I hung in for many years. After my divorce I still attended occasionally. I hung onto the beliefs until I learned about EGW and that is when I let go. I could no longer hang on knowing EGW is a false prophet. So now I am attracted to a church that teaches Jesus and his love for mankind, just as the Bible tells us. I wear the title of Christian with pride. Diana |
