| Author | Message | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 60 Registered: 2-2005 |
In my post above, I said the poster Divine Comedy was a cultural Adventist. After reading a little further, I must retract that assessment. Here's a choice quote from the thread I linked to above:
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but I'm tending toward the latter  . Greg | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 710 Registered: 7-2003  |
That is truly sad, Greg. You can just sense the desperation, futility, depression, and failure lurking just beneath the surface of his post. I was there once and know exactly what it feels like to believe that salvation is a distant and nearly unattainable goal. Chris | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1671 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just came back from that site once again. this time I read the discussion about the book, The Purpose Driven Life. One SDA posted that in the church postored by the author of that book wjole entire sermons can be heard without Christ ever being mentioned. I found this comment very interesting coming from an Adventist as that is the very same comment I have made numerous times about sitting through SDA sermons. I have sat through many SDA services in witch the only mention of Christ/Jesus is in the song being sung or at the end of the prayer ending, "In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spitit, Amen." BTW, Bucky asked some real good questions on that thread ansd rather than answering his questions he was called a spoiled child. It's really something to behold! | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 61 Registered: 2-2005 |
Chris, yes, this is profoundly sad. EGW is directly responsible for the thought process displayed in that post. If you buy into her doctrine, either you become depressed trying to attain perfection or you give up trying, thinking it's just impossible and you'll be annhilated in an instant anyway. Chris, how did your heart finally open up to the God of grace? I just don't see an easy way to talk to a person in this situation without being accused of espousing "cheap grace". These poor souls need our prayers. Greg | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1672 Registered: 11-2002 |
Greg, I checked out that site. Did you catch where Comedy said that EGW predicted the 9/11 terrorist attacks? And that those attacks would preceed the National Sunday Law? I don't think I'll ever look at that site again, they are just too far out in laalaa land for me. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2004 |
Greg, I went to look at the post made by Divine Comedy, and he really sounds disillusioned. He's getting impatient waiting for the National Sunday Law. He's even more upset because no matter how hard he tries he still cannot get control of his "sin problem." Here is one paragraph on his post that almost makes me want to cry: I cannot change the true doctrine to suit my failings like the liberals do. If you cling on to the love gospel, new-theology, cheap grace -- it's worse because there's no salvation in it but the big lie according to Paul. In fact, whether we accept it or not, God's truth doesn't change. We either follow the light or we're left in darkness. God says go with the program. And the absolute truth is that we're left to remedy the defects of our character--Mrs. White says that. The keyword in a nutshell is cooperation--between God and man. God gives the power but man must act. It sounds like a small part inside of him wishes that what Paul says is true (which, of course, it is) but his alliegence to EGW's writings will not allow him to accept that free offer of grace. Like I've said, it has be well over a decade since I really met Jesus and became acquainted with Saving Grace (which isn't cheap by any measure!). This kind of thinking has not been a part of my life for a long while now, and it is so disquieting to see the effects of the church's doctrines on the people who have accepted those doctrines. These are not the musings of a happy man. There is no "Blessed Assurance" here. I truly mourne for this man, and all of the others thus ensnared by the teachings of EGW. Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2004 |
One more comment, then I'm calling it a day. I was glancing over some of the other posts made earlier today and came across the 24/7 comment made indicating that the Formers must never work. You can't tell me these people are that bone-headed. They still haven't gotten that we are talking about human efforts at perfectly keeping the law, which is a whale of a lot of work. We have rested from that 24/7, praises be to Jesus! Now I'm sad for them once more. Right now they are self-righteously "keeping" the Sabbath Day, and "rejecting" the Sabbath Event. Telling SDA's about Grace is like trying to convince a Jewish person that Jesus is Messiah. Belva | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 216 Registered: 7-2004  |
Chris had earlier stated
Sometimes I think that desperation and futility is just what drives us to finally accept grace. Realizing that it is not only nearly but is truly an unattainable goal when it requires that we be perfect in order to achieve it can be just the thing that leads us to throw ourselves blindly at His mercy and trust in His sufficiency. I think that a person struggling with these questions is often much closer to a point where they can understand grace than many people who are comfortably content right where they are. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 711 Registered: 7-2003 |
I agree Ric that salvation is truly an unattainable goal if it has any basis at all, no matter how small, in our own merit. However, through my old SDA lenses, I saw salvation as something that a few would obtain through victory over sin, just probably not me (hence my statement that it seemed "nearly unattainable", although I held out some small hope). Chris | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 712 Registered: 7-2003 |
Greg, my testimony is a bit long. If you have any back issues of Proclamation, I believe it was published in one of the 2004 issues under the title "The Journey Home". In a nutshell, God reached me during a very vulnerable low point in my life, "spoke" to me in a way that was very tangible (to be clear, I am not claiming an audible voice but it was real none-the less), and worked a miracle both in my spirit and in the physical world. I have never been the same. This experience drove me into the Word, which subsequently led me out of Adventism. God had to hit me over the head pretty hard to get my attention. I guess He knows it takes a lot to move me and He intervened in a big way. Chris | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 62 Registered: 2-2005 |
Chris, I just happened to receive some back issues of Proclamation today (thanks Colleen!) and I read your testimony. It's utterly amazing (but not surprising) how God worked through personal tragedy in your life to put you back together, secure in his hands. God is awesome. Thanks for sharing your testimony. Greg | ||
| Melinda Registered user Username: Melinda Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2005 |
I don't have any back issues of the Proclamation, but I would still like to hear your story. I think it is so cool all the ways God speaks to us, whether it's audible or in other ways. I remember when we were considering leaving the sda church and I was reading my Bible. A verse just "jumped out" at me and the Holy Spirit impressed me that it was for me at that time. I just love it when God does that. I believe that God tries to speak to us all the time and we just don't recognize it. It's kind of like that movie, "Bruce Almighty", when he asked God for a sign and then there were all these signs everywhere but he didn't see them. Melinda | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1181 Registered: 3-2004  |
Chris, Why not put your adventure out of adventism here on the FAF. That way all of us can read it. Like Melinda, I do not have back issues of Proclamation, so I cannot read your story. It is awesome how God got us out of adventism. Each of us is different and God knew just what to do to turn us around. Thank you God. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 713 Registered: 7-2003 |
I believe I would have to have permission from either Dale Ratzlaff, Colleen, or both to republish an article written for "Proclamation" in any other venue (at least that's the way it worked when I wrote for some online magazines). I believe I've heard Colleen say that they hope to have all the back issues online at some point in the future. Can you confirm Colleen? Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1581 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, that is the goal. We can also post your story on our website, too. That's a good idea. Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 714 Registered: 7-2003 |
Please feel free to post it on FAF. Do you need a copy or do you still have it? Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1582 Registered: 12-2003 |
(Message edited by Colleentinker on March 12, 2005) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1583 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sorry--I double posted myself-- Chris, we have your story. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1678 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have been reading on Pastor O'Fills site again. The discussion always gets back to the weekly Sabbath. I just don't care what the topic started out as it seems within several hours it is somehow back to the Holy Sabbath. And, I just don't get the big deal. If some poeple want to make Sat. their worship day then fine and if others want to make their going to church day Sun., then that's fine, too. I read in my Bible, "Some people esteem one day above another. Some people esteem every day the same. Let each do as he understands." So, I just don't get why there is even a discussion. As I said above in another post about the mass killing at that church yesterday in Wis. My mom made the comment to me that is was good those people had the truth of the Sabbath, that God will see they had the truth. I have never told my SDA (or other 7th-day observing friends and kin) they should keep Sun. holy. Bibically I do not keep Sun. holy as the Isrealites were told to keep the Sabbath holy. Yet, over on the Pastor O'Fill site those SDA's keep trying to say the formers on there must believe the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. I have read ever post over there and never has a former even made that insinuation. Yet, the SDA's interpert it like that. I attend a Wed. evening church service each week. Would those SDA's take issue with that? It almost sometimes seems like they are not so much pro-Sabbath as they are anti-Sunday. Heck, it's a period of time. Would they just want to eliminate Sunday from the weekly calander? And, no one over there has ever answered my question if the SDA's have the Sabbath truth for the last days then does the SDA religion include all the other Sabbathtarians in this final truth or is it limited to only the SDA's having the truth? And, my other question was a comment on the difination of sin as given in James 4:17. Pastor O'Fill did respond to my comment about the Catholic prayer group I attend on Mon. evenings by saying satan answers prayers. I just think those people are so stupid. I am sorry it my bold language might offend anyone. I just don't know how else to phrase my frusatration. Why can't they just chill and say, "O.K., we're all Christians regardless of our preferred day of worship. Let's unite and proclaim the gosple to all the world with the Good News as Jesus said." And, get over their mental disorder of having to prove their superiority by their exclusiveness. I don't think it is emotionally healthy. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 205 Registered: 7-2004 |
If SDA's were to recognize that all other denominiations have been given the right to worship whenever and wherever it is decided to, they would lose their "specialness." No, it is not emotionally healthy to think so exclusively. It's not mentally healthy to think you are the only ones with a special "truth" the way the SDA's do. It breeds false pride, and paranoia. If you read all their responses you will catch the flavor of both of those attitudes. I find it interesting that the one person who is arguing the most for their position seems to be Colporteur, who has divulged that he has converted to Adventism from Catholicism. In Adventist eyes Catholics are the source of the beast, so he must feel like he has made a narrow escape. Now add that to the fact he makes his living by selling the red books. He is heavily invested in Historic Adventism. I can understand how he feels so threatened. It doesn't make it right, just makes it understandable. He is a representation of one method used by SDA's. I hate to say it, but I think Pastor O'Ffill is a representation of the other approach. He admitted that he hadn't read most of the posts, and believe me most of the posts were made on the "We've Been Fooled" thread--a complete explanation of New Testament/New Covenent grace was made on that thread--he hadn't read them. He avoided the opportunity to see his opponent's side of things, then he cut off all avenue to the source of confusion by preventing any discussion of EGW. They want to "enlighten" us about how we've gone wrong in their eyes, but won't take the time or opportunity to really see the direction we are coming from. They are pillars, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set. Give me Jesus Belva |
