| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1167 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have never been so frustrated with SDAs as on the R/S web site. Yet, like each of you who go on there, God has me go back. Jeremy, Greg and Belva, God has really used you. They will not even address the questions I ask. Maybe once one or two were addressed. I never did like colporteurs, even as an SDA. I got a creepy feeling around them. Now I know why. So, when I need prayers I come to my brothers and sisters here on this site to pray with me. Thank you all for being here. God is awesome in how he provides our needs. Diana | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2000  |
For five summers, after academy and while I was in college, I was a colporteur. Oh, the lies our supervisors told prospective customers in order to sell them SDA books! | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 191 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Diana, I hear you. I responded with some force last night after Colporteur attacked and declared us all marked with the beast. No one who is a Christian would want to be labeled like that. I thought he was particularly unkind, first to FAF's in general, and then he turned on Bucky and called him a spoiled brat. It amazes me that they, the SDA's, can say all manner of unkind things, but just call them on it and point out that they have not behaved in a Christ-like manner, and you will immediately be informed that you are an un-invited intrusion on their own website. I have not questioned anyone's commitment to Jesus Christ, they have. I have blatently, and frequently questioned their doctrines. I guess they think they are their doctrines. It only points up the fact that they haven't really taken the time to examine those "unique" doctrines Biblically, or point of origin. We must continue to pray that God will open their eyes, or make them sit bolt-upright in bed one night when the working of the Holy Spirit brings something they have read to their understanding. It was interesting to me that Pastor O'Ffill admitted that he hasn't read many of the posts that have been on (meaning, the posts we have made). It reminds me of my last SDA pastor who willingly refused to look at scripture the Berean way. God bless you, Diana. Be of good courage. I've said it before, we may never see any good result here, but praises be to God, he will water the seeds and bring forth a harvest. I hope he can work around my little fits of pique! Thank God for Jesus Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1170 Registered: 3-2004 |
It is very interesting, Belva, that they have not addressed 1 text I have asked about. It is Deut 5:3 where Moses is telling the Israelites the message from Sinai was given to those who were there at that time. Tonight I asked them about Rev 21:25 and Rev 22:5 where John writes there will be no night in heaven. How can we keep track of days so we can celebrate the Sabbath if there is no need of night. Of course, we will be resting in Christ all the time and rejoicing. And I have said before, Jesus died on the cross for me, so what if I take a few arrows for Him. Besides it is not at me the arrows are directed. It is at Jesus. And I agree that we may never know or see any result of what we posted on there. So Thank you God for being the Master Gardener and watering the crop and harvesting it. All I could do was drop a few seeds. And He understands my frustration and keeps that in His awesome hands. Just give me Jesus. It is so good to say that. Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1171 Registered: 3-2004 |
I finally got an answer to the texts I quoted. I want to share them with you. It looks to me that when a person wants to look correct they will go to any lengths. This first one is in reference to what Paul and Barnabas told the council in Jerusalem about what the new Gentile believers should do. Jeremy came in with some verses from Isaiah about Gentiles being circumsized if they wanted to join the Israelites. Thanks Jeremy. "Paul and Barnabus were commenting on particular problems that the people were having. They also didn't mention taking God's name in vain, among many other things. We are sure they weren't condoning it just because they didn't mention it. By reading Isaiah 56:1-8 we see that from old all believers were expected to keep the Sabbath. It was understood, just like it was understood that they shouldn't take the Lord's name in vain." "I understand Rev. 21:25 and Rev. 22:5 to be talking about the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:10, 23), not the earth made new (where it will be located after the millenium). Outside the New Jerusalem there very well may be night and day." This last comment just floored me. The reply I made to the person is that I do not want to add or take away anything from the Bible, so I will take it as it is. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 192 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, Diana, I saw that. I guess it is a form of deductive thinking. It really comes off as a form of distraction really. Anything to take the focus off of the initial topic. We don't have to have Paul and Barnabus talking about taking the Lord's name in vain to make it something the Christian should not do. That material has already been covered somewhere else. I remember one of Gene Scott's teaching sessions about the Counsel at Jerusalem, and what he said was that they were forced into coming up with a list of rules because the Jerusalem Christians were comprised mostly, if not all, of former Jews. They were accusomed to having lots of rules for proper behavior because of the law. Gene was of the opinion that they probably shouldn't have even given them the list that they did. I have already stated that I find it ironic that the only book in the NT that teaches about the Sabbath, is the book of Hebrews--a book addressed to and for the Jewish believers in particular. They had to unlearn a few things before they could learn what they needed to. That is the situation with most SDA's. They have been hypnotically conditioned, and thoroughly trained to have the law uppermost in their minds, in particular the Sabbath. In order to be open to the simplicity of the Gospel them must first come up against the lies they've been fed, or must be opened up by the Holy Spirit--unlearn so they can learn. I'm afraid I must pull away and not become so involved over there. I allowed my emotions to get the better of me when Colporteur made the assertion that we already had the mark of the beast. His comments about Bucky also fried me. I think the young man is amazing for his age. Thank you for keeping your head. I'm proud to call you a sister in Christ. Jesus only! Belva | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2005 |
Diana and Belva, The discussion over there has run its course. Both sides have dug their heels in so deeply there is no reconciling the two. I actually agreed with Pastor O'Ffill's statement that the two sides are like a divorced couple who have irreconcilable differences. I have asked over there a couple of times whether Adventism can allow for other denominations to be part of the body of Christ, without ever getting a response. Apparently there is little room for non-Adventist Christians in heaven. I think the mentality is that it is more likely for a person who has never encountered Adventism to be saved than for someone who is a former Adventist to be saved. It's incredible, really, how far people have gone in their own minds to make decisions about who will or will not be counted as righteous by the almighty God. Onigiri crystallizes the whole mindset:
According to onigiri, anyone who has rejected Ellen White has rejected the Holy Spirit. Isn't this blasphemy? At some point, everyone involved in that conversation needs to just move on. Greg | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 421 Registered: 10-2004  |
Wow, I can't believe he would say that. The Bible clearly says that they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit. "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:" (Acts 15:28 NASB.) Jeremy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2004 |
I agree, Gregg, it's as though they were busy playing sandlot baseball with only a few players, but had gotten used to things the way they were. Then a whole bunch more kids came, and now they are arguing over whose bat is whose, and where is the ball. The game has been left behind a long time ago. God will not allow any seeds planted in accordance with the Holy Spirit to be left ungerminated. It isn't up to us any more. One plants the apple tree, another will enjoy the fruit. I think we handled ourselves well, for the most part. I'm certain that Bucky knows to whom he is committed, and where he can find friends in a time of need. I'm proud to call you all brother and sister. Yes, it is blasphemy to say that we've grieved the Holy Spirit by recognizing the weaknesses of EGW. You and me, we've passed beyond judgment. If they want to stand with hat in hand before the Great God of the universe and discuss their Sabbath keeping history with Him, that is their business. Thank you, Jesus, for fulfilling the law. I know I'm unable to do it on my own. Blessings, Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 194 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jeremy, I was in and out of the room doing my housework while he was teaching on that. If it is in his archives I'll send you the URL. Yes, he acknowledged that it says the Holy Spirit was upon them when they came up with the list. That is why it was so short. Gene's point was that Jesus had fulfilled ALL of the Law, and he wanted His Faithful People to be willing to listen to the Holy Spirit, that portion of Him that was inside each of them. If a list is imposed from outside, no matter how small that list might be, it becomes a distraction from listening to the Still Small Voice. I have learned a lot from our study over at the R/S site. That is always the way it is when you are put in the position of speaking for your faith, you are the one who is most blessed. Jeremy, you have shown yourself to be a mighty tool in the hand of the Saviour, as have all of the others who have posted on that site. I liked Justin's comment after Colporteur said, "Let's not strain at gnats and swallow the camel." Justin wonderfully came back and said, "No, let's do strain at gnats and swallow the camel," then listed every time Col had handed down a condemnation upon the formers, standing as it were, in the place of God. I think I overstayed my welcome there because I wanted to see how things resolved for Bucky, but his friend Justin is quite a fellow, too. I have no doubt that God will use the both of them. Safe in Jesus, Belva | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 708 Registered: 7-2003  |
It seems to me that the list that was given to the gentiles was not a "law" so much as it was a necessary element of the commission to take the Gospel to the Jew first, then to the Gentile. There is no way Jews would have listened to the testimony of gentiles who weren't even observing the most basic norms that gentile "God-fearers" obeserved (the norms thought by Jews to be set forth in the Noahic covenant). In addition, if gentile believers flaunted their freedom in Christ and refused to observe even the Noahic guidelines it would undoubtedly cause much discord in the Church with Jewish Christians being deeply offended. The guidance handed down at the Jerusalem council by the Holy Spirit was an act of love, an act of deference to weaker brothers, and an act that allowed for witnessing to Jews who did not yet believe. In other words, gentiles were asked not to do anything that would harm the spreading of the Gospel. I have often debated with myself if this example suggests that I too should give up some of my Christian freedoms when around SDAs in order not to harm my witness. Chris | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2004 |
Definitely, I don't think I'm being two-faced when I honor my family members who are honoring the Sabbath when I am with them. I have no problem accompanying them to services, or partaking of meatless meals. I also try to accomodate them when they are with me by preparing foods I know they will eat, and I don't suggest any entertainment that I know they would feel is "too worldly." Belva | ||
| Jjustinn Registered user Username: Jjustinn Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2005 |
"I liked Justin's comment after Colporteur said, "Let's not strain at gnats and swallow the camel." Justin wonderfully came back and said, "No, let's do strain at gnats and swallow the camel," then listed every time Col had handed down a condemnation upon the formers" That was Bucky, not me, and I think he listed stuff from Walk. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1660 Registered: 11-2002 |
Riverfonz, The post you put on March 08 was a wonderful post and I wanted to make sure to let you know. Belva, I have noticed with all the restriuctions SDA's have it is usually one way-their way or no way at all. I will give an example. Recently I had a house full of youth at my house one evening. So, I ordered four pizzas. One pepperoni, one saissague/combination, one vegertaian and one hamburger and pineapple. We asked my mom is she'd like to come over for pizza. I figured with that variety there would be something for everyone. We left the pizzas in their boxes and did not mix them up on the same plates. After looking over the pizzas my mom said, "Isn't pepperoni and saussage pork?" I told her yes, they were. She said, "I raised you to know better than this (Remember I'm 54 years old) and I won't be in a home where pork is served." She started to leave. I said, "But, Mom, there's the vegetarian one and the hamburger one. You can eat from one of those. They haven't touched the pork." She stll left saying she will not be in my home since she knows I was taught to know the truth on this and have rejected it. Then one of the kids said, "Oh, yeah, that leaves an extra slice for me." No matter how accomadating I try to be to the SDA's unless I totally convert to SDA whatever I do will never be enough. Do you understand what I mean? | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2005 |
Susan, thanks for the above comments, but do you remember which post? because on that day I posted quite a bit, but unfortunately didn't get in on the high drama taking place yesterday on Modest Proposal. That is such a tough situation with your mom, but keep her in prayer, and God may yet work through itGod bless you, Stan | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2005 |
I would like to say to everyone who posted on R/S, what a good job, and stimulating discussion. I thought everyone presented their points well, and covered a wide range of issues. Did we change any minds? Who knows. Only time and eternity will tell. But, that was one of most heated exchanges I have ever seen on that Modest Proposal thread. They showed their true colors when backed into a corner. Were you working under the assumption that these people were true Christians? Because, I sure have my doubts about that now. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 423 Registered: 10-2004 |
WOW! Look at the last several posts on this thread: http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=546 I am shocked!!! They're calling God's Word "obscene," etc. and they didn't even know I was just saying what Romans says! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on March 10, 2005) | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 54 Registered: 2-2005 |
Jeremy, In my experience, it's those times when I've been shocked by God's Word that I finally arrived at an understanding of it. Similarly, the real danger in the Christian walk is the watering-down and ritualization of your religion. We should not forget we are part of a radical, counter-culture movement. Jesus shocked people every day of his life here on earth if for nothing else than to get them to wake up and stop blindly following the rules they thought would get them to heaven. This concept is central to the debate on R/S and it's no different than the tension between Jesus and the Pharisees during his life on earth. I hope the readers of the R/S forum are shocked by your posts. Maybe it will instill in them a desire to read their Bibles more and their red books less. But, like the Pharisees in Jesus day, it will probably send them in the opposite direction, and as a testament to this, many of us have already been verbally crucified by the faithful law-keepers there. Greg | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1661 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just went to the Pastor O'Fill site and yes, Walk calls Romans 7 obscene. And, that to my way of thinking is obscene. That is really warped that he calls the Word of God obscene. Well, I guess that clarifies for me what he thinks of the Bible. I have always believed the SDA religion is just a made up religion. They take bits of texts from here and there in the Bible and combine those bits and pieces to this and that passage from EGW and just made up their own religion. Then they totally get the devotees to believe in self-denial by giving loads of tithe, offerings, money to this special fund and that special fund as well as the various independent SAD ministries such as the VOP, FFT, Quiet Hour, Maranartha, Adventist World Radio, ADRA, Dorcus, etc. and what you get is a group that "feeds" off the devotees for their very survival. Kind of like a parasite or a tapeworm. | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 55 Registered: 2-2005 |
By the way, my post above was not so much directed at Jeremy but a general statement of belief. A lot of what I see debated on R/S are the doctrines that make people secure in their "correctness". It's sad how far people will go--calling the Bible obscene--to defend their version of Christianity. This is exactly what Jesus admonished the Pharisees against. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I figured you guys would at least listen  Greg |
