| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 381 Registered: 10-2004  |
Greg, actually, I believe she is a prophet--but she is a false prophet, who was controlled by Satan. Jeremy | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2005 |
Jeremy, This is something I've given a lot of thought to recently. I think it was Colleen who said in another thread that anything not of God is evil. That kind of statement in our morally-relative society is somewhat of a wake up call--but I believe she is right. The other thread discussed how at the transfiguration of Christ, Moses and Elijah appeared in glory with Christ. They then disappeared and only Jesus remained. It is significant that the disciples were told not to tell anyone about what they had seen until after the resurrection, that literally Moses and Elijah, the law and the prophets, were no longer in force after the death and resurrection of Christ. Now, if I were Satan (to anthropomorphize a bit), I would try any way I knew to keep people from the precious gospel of Christ. My first line of attack would be to keep them away from God altogether--to encourage philosophies and worldviews that deny God's existence, Jesus' deity or that God is just. There is no shortage of people today who believe these things. But what about those who call themselves Christian? If I were Satan, I'd have a plan for those people too. I would have studied history and known exactly what the significance of Christ's life, death and resurrection were. I would have seen that God's plan for salvation no longer called for strict adherence to the Torah (law and prophets). In fact, I would understand that by continuing to observe these things, a Christian would in fact be missing the point of the gospels. To encourage these beliefs, then, would be of paramount importance. If I could get people to focus on the shadow, rather than the substance of Jesus, I would have subtly changed their focus, drawing the veil up over their eyes that Jesus himself had removed at the cross. Does Satan work in this way? I don't think it is a stretch to see that he does. He used Judaizers in the early centuries after the resurrection of Christ to try to take the focus off of Jesus. Paul eloquently and forcefully warned against this, especially in Galatians but throughout his epistles. Many religious movements since that time have subtly shifted the focus away from Christ, either through misinterpretation of scripture or through the teachings of prophets. In Adventism, a movement was born and nutured around the prophecies of Ellen White. Because her teachings and prophecies do not harmonize with the gospels, they have led to the subtle destruction of the gospel message (e.g. the investigative judgment doctrine, focus on works of the law, emphasis on dress, food, etc.). This anti-gospel and anti-Christ message has led many to believe they know something that the rest of Christianity doesn't, secure in their "rightness". Yet they have been led astray, like the sheep led astray by the evil shepherds in John 10. Jeremy, you are right. By obscuring the gospel message and taking the focus off the simple truth of Jesus' life, death and resurrection, Ellen White is indeed a false prophet. She fails the Biblical tests. What is not of God is of Satan. Greg | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 382 Registered: 10-2004 |
Greg, I was wondering if you've seen all the evidence about EGW's demonic encounters, occultic experiences, and, of course, her spirit guide(s)? The book White Washed by Sydney Cleveland has a whole chapter on this. She claimed to be visited by angels, and even said that she had the same "handsome young man" visit her for decades! Well, we certainly know that it was not a "good" angel. But the thing is you don't even have to argue that with SDAs, because Paul said even if an angel from heaven were to give you another gospel, let him be eternally condemned!  Even her own husband James White told J.H. Kellogg that at times "the very devil comes in and takes possession of her." Creepy stuff. It's great to be free from her satanic hold! Praise Jesus. Jeremy | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2005 |
Jeremy, no I haven't read the book. The stuff you describe raises the hair on the back of my neck. Are there any links to such information on the web, while I'm waiting to read the book by Cleveland? If what you describe is true, there is nothing subtle about her anti-Christ prophecies and teachings. I just shake my head when I think how long I've been blind to this. Greg | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 332 Registered: 6-2004 |
It amazes me to see how foolish I was to actually buy into this woman's claims. I was a perfect candidate to be sucked into it all, not having any Bible knowledge, I was awestruck at these topics and predictions and couldn't understand why the rest of Christianity didn't grasp it. Well, it's pretty clear now why it's not widley accepted. I'm glad to be free of that hold as well. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 501 Registered: 1-2003 |
My friend's brother went from SDAism into the Weigh Down Workshop Cult of Gwen Shambling. Here is what he (my SDA friend) wrote...I believe SDAism sets you up for other people who claim to be "prophets" such as Gwen. He writes to the author of the following website: Several years ago I read your story as posted at www.midwestoutreach.org, and a friend just directed me to it again. Thank-you so much for writing it. I admire your ability to be humble, reasonable, and forgiving and your calm, rational way of pointing out the heresy and delusions of Remnant Fellowship. I joined a WDW in 1999 and one year later I had lost 120 pounds. Throughout that period I had grave questions, both on doctrinal and scientific grounds. But I reveled in my newfound ability to lose the weight I hated so passionately. I started a WDW at my church near ____________, Texas, and also after considerable effort convinced my family here and in Oklahoma to try the program. All of us lost weight. There are five of us brothers and between us and our wives and my mother we lost a total of 385 pounds. I was the only one seriously obese, but we were typically overweight Americans. When WD Advanced came out my questions about Gwen's theology and approach were settled. My church is not part of Babylon. We believe a number of truths that are straight from the Bible that Gwen does not accept, and I was unwilling to give up truth for skinniness. However, I was too late in my decision to influence my youngest brother and his wife. They joined a group in __________, OK that was starting a WD Advanced class, and before they had finished the whole 12 weeks they informed us that they were leaving our denomination (SDA) to become members of the Remnant Fellowship. I was devastated! I felt responsible. In the course of the next year, they made arrangements to move to Nashville, and they now work personally for Gwen. My brother is a master furniture maker, and is doing all kinds of building for her. My sister-in-law also works for the "church." I don't suppose you have any resources for rescuing cult members from this situation except prayer? If you do, I'd love to hear about them. If not, will you please put my brother and his wife on your prayer list. When they moved to Tennessee we got a handwritten note from them stating what their decision was. They said that they supposed we would not understand, but hoped we could accept that they had to follow God's leading. I had not heard from them since (January of 2003, I think), until this past December. I got a voice mail from my brother stating that his wife was pregnant with their first child. He said he was "so sorry" for not communicating with us. I tried to return the call, but have never heard another word. He does occasionally communicate with our mother. My brother is my biggest regret in getting involved in WD. If I had voiced my concerns with my pastor or elders, maybe I would have stopped the program sooner instead of getting my family involved and losing a brother. My other regret is my own love/hate relationship with food and weight. In the five years since I lost the weight I have slowly put 75 pounds back on. I hate that. Have I lost my ability to submit to my Maker? Am I part of the great Babylon? These questions haunt me, for the only time in my life I have had weight loss success was during the year when I was teaching WDW. I do not believe in the teaching of Remnant Fellowship. Yet I am tempted by the "fruit" of WD to wonder why God has not stayed close to me in my eating life.. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 672 Registered: 7-2003  |
I have been suprised at how may SDA churces have held WeighDown and Exodus from Strongholds workshops. I know a few SDAs here in Lincoln that teach/attend these workshops regularly under the auspices of the the local SDA church. Some theologians debate if Adventism should be classifed as a cult, sect, or Christian denomination, but there's no real debate about Remnant Fellowship. RF is a full blown mind controlling, Trinity denying, family breaking destructive cult. Even SDAs should be able to recognize the destructive nature of this particular cult. Why do they refuse to read anything by non-Adventist authors, then they turn around and let one of the most blantant bible-based cults going right in their front door? Makes no sense to me. Chris | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 383 Registered: 10-2004 |
Greg, here is a link to one of my posts on here, where I give a link for the Kellogg quote on there and a quote from Ellen about demons. I don't know if there are any online resources about the things in Cleveland's book. There is a story, though, about two men who had interesting dreams warning them about Ellen, back when she was still alive. Here is the link to that story: http://www.ex-sda.com/newpage23.htm You can search in that page for the word "dream" and that will get you to that part of the article. Here is a quote from it:
Jeremy | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 333 Registered: 6-2004 |
What is a Weigh Down Workshop? Is it something like Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers? I imagine it forces the SDA dietary restrictions upon unsuspecting volunteers. It might have been around when I was involved in the SDA (1985-86) but I'm not sure. The place I went to was a pretty small church. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 674 Registered: 7-2003 |
Pw, it's WWD is not affiliated with Adventism. It is the recruitment arm of Gwen Shanmblin's Remanant Fellowship cult. If you click here: http://www.midwestoutreach.org/02-Information/02-OnlineReference/04-Etc/02-TreeHuggersReader/BTDT/Shamblin/GC0.html you can read a fascinating story of how a group of frineds got sucked into the cult and how God pulled one couple back from the brink of the abyss. Chris | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 386 Registered: 10-2004 |
WOW...from the O'Ffill site:
Jeremy | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 678 Registered: 7-2003 |
Oh my goodness! That very last quote making the denomination equal to "God and Jesus" as and object of faith is quite shocking. The first quote about being saddened unto death doesn't suprise me very much though. I'm sure I've related this before, but when my wife and I met with her parents to tell them we were leaving Adventism, my father in law wept nearly to death. This is no exageration, he wailed loudly, wept, sobbed and heaved. He repeatedly begged God to take his life right now so he didn't have to endure this. It was really very sad. There was nothing either of us could do for him. All he knew was that his little girl had just chosen Hell and eternal death. He's a good man, but I'll always be the person that sentenced his daughter to eternal destruction. Chris | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 769 Registered: 7-2003  |
Do they claim ANY scripture to show A remnant CHURCH, and better still one that says it is the SDA church?? | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 39 Registered: 1-2005 |
Chris, That was a fascinating website about the Remnant Fellowship. Interestingly, the more recent posts on this thread describe mechanisms that SDAs employ that are similar to the RF. Yet more affirmation that SDA is cultish from the top down. If Iím ever known for a razor (which I doubt), it would be this: Wherever two or more people are gathered together in a group effort, there is no such thing as group morality; rather, the group will do whatever is in the best interest of the group. (And I imagine someone has already described this, with much more eloquence.) The only way to ensure a group acts in a morally appropriate manner is via healthy competition. In other words, you have to force the group to equate group interest with group morality, and you have to do this from the outside in, not from the inside out. Itís no mistake that we, the most prosperous and successful nation on earth, are governed by a system of checks and balances, and that we participate in an open, capitalistic market. The more I study religion, the more Iím convinced that the same principle applies to denominations and congregations as well. I havenít thought out what constitutes ěhealthy competitionî in religion, and perhaps there are Biblical precedent(s). Yet I sense that when religious groups walk away from open discussion and potential conflict, they gravitate towards becoming a cult. The more isolated they become, the more jack-booted the leadership becomes, and the more the group leans towards reprehensible behavior. Any lingering morality takes a back seat to the group leadership and his/her/their vision. Acting on behalf of the group then becomes a convenient excuse to personally behave immorally. Anyways, just some thoughts. Iím truly sorry that you had to experience the saddened unto death guilt trip. Compared to the way I exited Adventism, I give you credit for openly discussing your move. That was a tough thing to do. Tom | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 171 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Greg, Jeremy & Justin, I do hope that Justin comes over now and then for a look! I've been lurking at Pastor O'Ffill's and I couldn't be more proud of the way you are speaking up for your faith and for Jesus. Your opponents are experiencing that they have been painted into a corner. Their answers to direct questions seem to reflect the idea that one would assume their position to be correct based on some other semi-relatable statement from scripture. The one we can all identify is that if you break one of the laws you are breaking them all. Pastor O'Ffill expanded that to mean that because the 4th commandment is in the middle, you can't remove it, it's embedded, and besides if you negate one part you negate them all. Greg pointed out that the 10 are sort-of embedded in the 613. But that's okay, because the whole lot were fulfilled at the cross. Their circular thinking is starting to be obvious even to them. We are once again called upon to pray. These people are looking at facing a whole life-time of delusion. We have been there ourselves. Pray for a breakthrough. Even for Pastor O'Ffill. His own have asked him for backup and he has had to grudgingly side with Greg, Jeremy, and Justin. They have caught on that we believe in the immortality of the soul, so they are going to switch tactics to that topic in order avoid facing things on the current discussions. They are already beginning to talk among themselves about this so it will be very soon, I think. Belva | ||
| Jjustinn Registered user Username: Jjustinn Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 |
Heh...been lurking in this pond for awhile now. Registration came through tonight. Just saying hello. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 |
Like Justin, saying hello. I have been lurking for over a year, and feel like I know many of you. God bless, Stan Ermshar | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1620 Registered: 11-2002 |
Justin and Stan, I am pleased to make your acquaintance. I feel as though we already know one another as I have read your entries on Pastor O'Fills website. I am looking forward to hearing your stories and to learning from you. | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2005 |
Justin and Stan, Just have to jump in here to welcome y'all to the FAF and commend you for fighting the good fight over at revivalsermons.com. You have certainly represented yourselves and your opinions in a clear and earnest manner. Surely, the Lord is working through you, Greg, and Jeremy to reach souls -- if I've left anyone out, I'm sorry. Great to finally see you here! | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2000 |
Hey Greg, Justin and Stan, Welcome to FAF. You guys are awesome. I admire your persistent "pounding" the truth. The reverence and respect you give the folks on Pastor O'Ffill's forum is remarkable. Praise God for you all. Belva, you've done a pretty good job yourself, even to the "smart Alex" God bless you all. Praying often for you and the others, May God remove the scales for eyes and hearts. If this were not a serious matter, I would think I am watching a Comedy show. I must say, I am more than a little disappointed with Pastor O'Ffill. I perceive weakness, reluctance, or inability to defend SDA doctrines in a substative manner. I sense some SDA members are frustrated they are getting little help from him. May the Grace of our Lord and Savior, the love of God and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us (and them) alway. Bmorgan |
