| Author | Message | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 137 Registered: 7-2004 |
Our SDA friends who disappeared from the Bucky site have started up their own thread where they can pat each other on the back and soothe each other. ---------- http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=527 ---------- Walk_In_The_Light, and Colporteur, along with some of their other friends are over there reassuring each other that they are right by quoting Ste. Ellen to their heart's content. They are going so far as to refer to her as the greatest of the prophets. I'm not saying that anyone needs to go over there and try to continue this futile discussion, but they haven't given up the ghost yet. Sojourner is calling them to task, tho, and trying to bring them back on topic by reminding them that they still need to prove their points solely from scripture. Now they are getting uncomfortable again. By the way, I would not have referred to EGW as Ste. Ellen if they had not made that comment about her being the greatest of the prophets. They are comparing her to John The Baptist. Jesus Only Belva | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1442 Registered: 12-2003  |
Belva, I heard a tape of Dwight Nelson about 6 or 7 years ago. I can't remember where he was speaking, but his whole sermon was about Ellen White being a last-day John the Baptist. He quoted Jesus saying there was no one born of a woman greater than John the Baptist, and he proceeded to try to draw parallels between John's mission and Ellen's. It was absolutely amazing. I wouldn't have been so surprised if these comments had been coming from a historic Adventist, but no--they were coming from Dwight Nelson. Apparently, this idea of Ellen being a last-day John the Baptist is a fairly popular idea in Adventism right now. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 487 Registered: 1-2003 |
I read the thread...nauseating. I don't think they realize how blasphemous they have become...elevating a fellow believer (Ellen) to the greatest of the prophets...on the level of King David or John the Baptist! I simply can't believe it. | ||
| Qweary Registered user Username: Qweary Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2004 |
Just went over to that "other" place and found a very interesting posting! I heard on another forum that even Walter Rae who wrote the infamous book attacking Ellen White and accusing her of plagiarism has returned to the church, is a member somewhere in Central CA. He was quoted as saying that his book "The White Lie" was "dumb", and saying that he was angry at the church when he wrote it. LL Tell me: Has Walter Rae recanted his book, "The White Lie"? Is this the truth or is it just another "hopeful" LIE?? Thank you, Belva, for the info!! | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 52 Registered: 1-2003  |
I don't know if he has "recanted' the book but I do know he lives in Central California. In fact he attends church in the same city my parents live in. Richard | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1451 Registered: 12-2003 |
No, he has NOT recanted. This latest edition of Proclamation has a notarized document by Rea in which he states exactly what happened at that 1980 meeting, exactly what the church promised to do, exactly what they did NOT do that they had promised, and why he was fired. He has recanted nothing, and further, he said that no one has EVER talked to him re: his supposed repentance or recanting. Further, he didn't write it because he was angry. He wrote it because the church promised to reveal to the church the fact that Ellen plagiarized by a certain date, and they didn't do it. He believes to this day the members were owed the information. Rumors such as this abound--just as they still do for Dudley Canright--just as they do about us. You know--"they are just disgruntled [or angry or hurt...]." No, he has not repented of the book, nor is it a work of anger. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1082 Registered: 3-2004  |
Qweary, In the lastest issue of Proclamation magazine is a copy of a letter from W. Rea. It was written in August 1992 and notarized on Oct 20, 2004. He does not recant and he stands firm in what he wrote. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1551 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yeah, I went and read that discussion in which they are consoleing one another. As true to the SDA form, they are not quoting scripture but are idolizing EGW. I read too where they are comnparing her to King David and to John the Baptist. It's really very close to blasophmus. I have heard the name Dwight Nelson over the years but I can't put a face or a position to him in SDA'ism.Please refresh me on who he is, what he does and if the sitting-in-the-pews SDA's really hold him in high esteem. You know, one of the 27 fundamental;s of SDA'ism says they use the Bible as their source of truth. Yet, on those SDA websites very little Bible is used and more often than not when texts are used they are taken totally out of context. In one post someone referring to all former SDA's who used to be SDA but have given up SDA'ism, the poster says that if the formers choose to give up their eternal life then that's about it, they have tried to show us the truth from EGW and we just refuse to open up to the truth. I am not one much for cussing but I just don't think the words that I tink while reading what I read on there is allowed to be printed on here. What I really wish though more than anything is that the loved ones I have who are ensnared in SDA'ism would read those websites. I say this because my loved ones do not even realize how off-the-wall SDA'ism is. They have the attitude that at least the SDA church teacxhes the truth of the 10 commandments, food and the state of the dead and my loved ones totally dismiss that they are even being influenced by EGW. They absoutely REFUSE to face the truth of the organization that they are not only giving their souls to but their time and their money too and their children. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1083 Registered: 3-2004 |
When I went to that web site, my mouth dropped open at what I read. I feel very sad, but I have to remember, that I too had EGW filters before I found out about her plagiarism. So lets continue to pray for them and all SDAs. God loves each of them and wants them in heaven, just as He loves each of us and wants us in heaven. So continue to pray for them. God's sheep hear His voice and respond to it and who knows who we will see in heaven from that web site. In the meantime it can be very frustrating when the folks there just don't seem to get what the Bible says. God is awesome and will teach those who want to know his truths. Diana | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2000  |
It's called brainwashing, folks! Only the Holy Spirit of God can give back to people a sound mind. Their minds are being controlled, and you CANNOT argue them out of their condition. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1555 Registered: 11-2002 |
OK, Bob, so let me have some insight on dealing with folks who I truly care about and love. My loved ones honestly do not think they are at all influenced by EGW. It is true that they do not have any of her books. I try pointing out to them that they don't need to actually be reading her books to be following her as their leader as they read the SS quarterlies, the Review, The Recorder, etc. and they watch FFT and those sorts of tv programs. In fact, I recently told my mom that the SDA church teaches Jesus is Michael. I asked her if she agreed with that. She refused to give me an answer. Well, I got an answer but not a "yes" or "no" answer. What I got was that she doesn't know and it doesn't concern her and she's content to wait until she gets to heaven to find out. She will not come out and disagree with the SDA church on even beliefs that are so clearly non-Bibical. I then asked her if she believes that EGW was led by God. Again, I did not get a stright answer. What I got was that some things she reads by EGW don't seem to be in harmony with the Bible but maybe she just doesn't understand it so she's fine with that because she reads at least a chapter a day in her Bible (NIV) and what she reads in the Bible is most close to the SDA church than any other church. It is very frustrating because this is the lazzae-fair response I get from every SDA relative. | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2000 |
People can only frustrate you as long as you have expectations, Susan! How many more years will you argue with them until you are convinced that all it is doing is upsetting you and making them more set in their position? Give it to God. Instead of letting them bait you into endless frustrating discussions, try praying for them. I mean REALLY praying for them, that the Spirit of Jesus will do what you have obviously not been able to do. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2004 |
Bob, what clear insight you have. I just finished what I hope will be my last post. The good pastor who is hosting the site finally posted and told us all that being SDA is a choice. Of course he finished off with his opinion that in the "Last Days" it will be the only choice that will open the gates of heaven. I had to post to explain to him that I was 100% dependent upon Jesus for my salvation. That being true, I also told him I was tired of being told that because I feel this way that I am a devil-led baffoon who is guided only by my feelings. I assured him that I have never spoken in tongues or had some ecstatic emotional experience as my guide. I also pointed out that none of us has condemned anyone who was making the point for the commandments, 4th in particular, but that we had been villified for quoting the assurances we had from scripture that faith is the only human requirement. I know it won't do any good, but I know that Jesus is building me a mansion. I don't deserve it but he's building one just for me anyway. I also pointed out that when we accepted Christ we had passed out from under the shadow of condemnation. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who love the Lord. That may not be an exact quote, but it is in the cannonized scriptures. They need to learn a few manners! Bob, you are right, though. I don't expect to see any manners from the EGW quoters. I can pray for them just the same. Give me Jesus. Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, who is Dwight Nelson? Belva | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1556 Registered: 11-2002 |
Belva, I can't find the message from the pastor over there. I just get to the end of page 54 and it's the same going round and round. Therefore, I couldn't find your message either. How do I get to it? I asked several questions on that site, too way back in the early pages and I have reasked the same questions several times throughout the 54 pages and my questions have gone totally ignored. This only leads me to think the SDA's don't want to deal with and therefore don't have an answer to my questions. My main question was that since there are over 300 different religious bodies who keep the Sabbath just as the SDA's believe and since the SDA teach that is the final seal of the true remenant in the last days then are those other 299+ religious bodies of people included in this remanant too? No SDA on the discussion has answered. However, I did ask this question to a SDA neighbor of mine several years ago and this is the answer I got from her, "Well, they already have the truth of the Sabbath and this is wonderful. Now they need to open up themselves to come to the whole truth which in in the SDA church." Yep, that is what she told me. Again, I was truly amazed at what I hear come from the mouths of some people. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1454 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dwight Nelson is the senior pastor at Pioneer Memorial Church at Andrews University and is also the speaker for the Faith For Today program, "The Evidence". That program is structured to approach "Christianity" from a more scientific point of view. Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2004 |
Susan, you wouldn't recognize me over there because I have a different poster name there. I'm JesusLovesMe. My message is on the Bucky site because that is where Pastor O'Ffill finally posted. I don't think he has made an appearance on the cut&run site. Please forgive my names for them (the sites). Thank you for the information on Dwight Nelson. I guess his relationship with Andrews is why he has such an appreciation of EGW. Like I said before, I've had very little contact with Adventists since I left the denomination over ten years ago. Just a few family members now and then at family reunions, and there are so many in attendance, and we are usually celebrating a birthday, funeral or wedding anniversary, so my change of affiliation never really comes up. Posting on this site has been my first real opportunity to observe SDA's in all their glory. I once was so proud to be a member of God's last remnant church, but not so proud that I couldn't look real evidence in the face. That's why I ended studying my way out. I remember hearing a sermon many years ago when I was still in my 20's (I'm 58 now), and it was the best sermon I've ever heard. It was delivered by a ministerial student. It was around Christmas time, so the speaker used the parable of two trees, the Christmas Tree and an Apple Tree. Both trees are beautiful, both have what looks like fruit hanging off of them. The difference is that the Christmas Tree is dead, has no roots, and didn't even produce the fruit that is hanging from it's branches--they are phoney. The Apple Tree is firmly rooted to God's good earth, draws nourishment from water and soil, and the fruit that hangs from it's branches were produced by the tree and provide food to those around it. (I'll bet you can guess who I now associate with the Christmas Tree...) One of the statements that he made in the course of the sermon was that he believed that the SDA faith came the closest to following the truth of scripture of all the faiths that he knew about. He then made the bold statement that if he ever found that not to be the case, his lot was cast with Christ, and would follow Jesus, not an earthly institution. That stuck with me, and I credit my memory of that sermon with making it easier for me to transition out of the SDA faith. I wish I knew what has happened to that young pastor in training. Don't know how to go about finding out, but his sermon was delivered before the Ford/Brinsmead/Rea/..... debacles. Surely he has learned through all of that because he was open to learning from Jesus, or so he said. Okay, nuff said. I've gone on too long. Belva | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2005 |
Bob, Your points are well taken. This is my first foray into "gospel apologetics" so I am learning as I go. Everyone it seems, has their preconceived idea of what the scripture should say so their interpretation is colored as such. You are right, we should all pray for the Holy Spirit to work here. Greg | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'll post my "story" on the introduction thread soon. One of the things I've run across as I've studied Adventist doctrine and Ellen White in particular is the degree to which some Adventists will miminize her importance. I've had more than one Adventist pastor tell me "nobody really believes all that stuff" when referring to her writings. This idea unsettles me, because in looking at what makes Adventism unique, one cannot but notice the pervasive influence of Ellen White. If you subtract her, you lose what is distinctively Adventist. After debating the folks on the other site, it's clear that many Adventists do believe Ellen White to be a prophet. Those who don't think she's relevant anymore yet remain firmly in the Adventist faith are willfully choosing to keep the blinders on. Has anyone here run across this? Do you find it hard to talk to Adventists about Ellen White because they minimize her importance? It's as if there are two polar extremes in Adventism: those who have "faith" in her, and those who are ready to cast her out. Both groups seem ready to defend their Adventism in light of their beliefs about her, but I would argue that only the defenders of Ellen White can remain Adventist. Greg | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1557 Registered: 11-2002 |
Belva, Although there are younger and older folks on this discussion it seems to me most on here are in the age range of 40-60. I think because so many of us are in the same basic age group that is how come we have so many similiar experiences within Adventism. The older ones have similiar experiences as do the younger. It never ceases to amaze me the similiar perceptions and experiences we share. We may be many miles from one another yet it seems like we are kin. |
