| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 469 Registered: 10-2004  |
Some people say that the SDA denomination does not claim that Ellen G. White is a "prophet." I just became aware of a new book "defending" Ellen, entitled The Prophet and Her Critics, written by Leonard Brand and Don S. McMahon. This book is copyrighted 2005, and is published by the General Conference-owned Pacific Press Publishing Association. The book is all about the "health message" and claims that she did not "borrow" her "health reform message" from others. You can read a summary of the book here: http://adventistbookcenter.com/Detail.tpl?sku=0816320578 Jeremy | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 323 Registered: 5-2002 |
Different shade of lipstick, same ol' pig... | ||
| Seekstruth Registered user Username: Seekstruth Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2005 |
It is amazing to me how Adventists defend their religion and their prophet! It has been my experience when proclaiming my own faith in the Bible and the Bible only to an Adventist, that the Adventist becomes extremely defensive and basically conveys no relevant information at all, except that they can argue about how wrong you are. Complete un-Christian like behavior---do not judge others, try to get the speck out of someone else's eye when you have a plank in your own! I have met very few people (Christians) in other religions that aren't very accepting other Christians in whatever religion they may be in---except for people who say they are Adventist Christians! Other Christians accept and love other Christians, no matter what their religion. This new book printed by the conference is just more ammunition for their devoted marauders of the Adventist faith. So they may be further brainwashed to spout off defensive statements, with little regard to what the Bible truly says. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 385 Registered: 7-2004 |
Do you think this new EGW "push" will in some way force the evangelical SDAs to face certain facts about the religion they continue to hold on to? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1273 Registered: 3-2004  |
Seekstruth, I do agree with you that when I quote the Bible to SDAs and say anything they do not like about their "prophet", they get very defensive and very nasty. I call this "wearing their EGW filters". Until I gave up EGW (took off my filters), I did not understand the Bible. When I gave her up, the Bible became very clear and every time I read it learn something new. The Christians I have met are so kind, loving and accepting. So very different and so Christ like. Dd, I think you have something there. This push by the SDA church to go back to its very historical roots will force those sitting on the fence to do something about Jesus vs EGW. It may be good it is happening. But that is something only God knows. We just need to keep on praying for the SDA church. Our God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 99 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dd, Good question! I think I saw some evidence for this from the ev SDAs that posted on the O'Ffill site--see the "cut and run thread", they appear to be getting fed up. Stan | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 283 Registered: 3-2004  |
If there is truly going to be a push to get back to EGW and "true" Adventism, I believe we will see evidences of that in the upcoming General Conference in St Louis this June. In many ways, it would be a blessing for them to push this shift. Like in the days of Desmond Ford, if there is something that can wake people up, the Holy Spirit may be better able to move, stir and guide. Praise God... | ||
| Skip Registered user Username: Skip Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2005 |
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 8:21 pm: нн Dd, Good question! I think I saw some evidence for this from the ev SDAs that posted on the O'Ffill site--see the "cut and run thread", they appear to be getting fed up. Stan" Stan: How can I find that site you mentened? The "O'fill site" must be a Seventh Day Adventist site, right? Do they let former members in? And do they have any "freedom of speech" at all there? I don't see how "the church" can run any internet discussion group and have 'open debate' because they have so much to hide. I belonged to their group years ago and found it frustrating to try to post anything truthful because they'd get upset at any open questions that were asked. Skip | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 496 Registered: 10-2004 |
Skip, Yes, SDA pastor Richard O'Ffill has a forum at http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/index.php And he has been letting us former SDAs post on there. We first started posting on there after he posted about his grandson, Bucky, leaving the SDA church with the Damascus Road Community Church in the Washington, DC area. Bucky got on there to defend himself and someone on here who saw that thread posted about it on here, and we started posting over there. It's been about a month and a half. Mr. O'Ffill will not allow us to talk about EGW, but other than that, he'll let us discuss things. Of course, he probably knows that if everyone believes in EGW and she can't be questioned, then no one will listen to us about the Sabbath, etc. There have been quite a few interesting discussions on there! We've been talking about that forum on here, on this thread: http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/2726.html?1112097876 Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on March 29, 2005) | ||
| Seekstruth Registered user Username: Seekstruth Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 |
One of the pivotal points in my making my decision to the leave the Adventist Church was when my Sabbath School teacher made the statement, "We've got to get back to our roots, back to EGW." It will definitely cause a rift as it already has begun! I know at the church I attended, there was a division that had already started. It very well, may come to a head in St. Louis. | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2005 |
I had been questioning EGW and the SDA Doctrine for many years. I knew of so many others that were doing the same thing. We thought that eventually we would be able to bring about change within the SDA denomination. I hated to abandon it if I could help that change to come about. When I saw that the SDA Church was actively pushing to go back to their historic roots and reaffirming EGW, and especially that speech by Jan Paulson stating that he would lose his salvation if he left the SDA church, I knew that I could no longer have anything to do with the SDA Church. That was the confirmation for me that any hope for change was being suppressed. I think this may well force the issue for many of those riding the fence! I sure hope so - and pray for that to happen! -tisha | ||
| Schasc Registered user Username: Schasc Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2004 |
Where can I found that quote by Jan Paulson? | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 287 Registered: 3-2004 |
Schasc, you can read it on the official website: http://www.adventistreview.org/2002-1524/story3.html | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks for the website Praisegod. It's been a while since I looked at that speech by Jan Paulson. I reread it just now and it is even worse than I remembered! It seems that the main thing is to keep the SDA Identity, as if that identity is what saves them - and the world. Here are several quotes that disturbs me - "we hold that the Adventist community is an instrument for salvation in God's hands such as no other." "We shun the perception of being arrogant, and we don't want to come across as being overly exclusive, but at the same time we believe that being Seventh-day Adventists has direct bearing on our salvation; that while a believer can be saved as a Catholic, I would risk my whole spiritual life and salvation were I to leave what I am now and join any other community." And since they have the "truth" our relationship with the Lord is compromised if we don't listen to and believe what they teach - "I'm compelled to share with others what I find. Those with whom I share my discoveries must also respond to Christ and dynamically move forward as the Spirit convicts and opens hearts and eyes, or their own relationship with the Lord is compromised." And they are definitely going to stick to their roots - "Some would have us believe that there have been significant shifts in recent times in regard to doctrines that historically have been at the heart of Seventh-day Adventism. "Take specifically our understanding of judgment and Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary and the prophetic messages in which these teachings are contained. Some are suggesting that since the 1980 (Glacier View) meetings, the very teachings that the church affirmed that year at those meetings have been abandoned, and that the church has essentially moved to accept the very positions it rejected then. Such a claim is a distortion of reality, and nothing could be further from the truth. The historic sanctuary message, based on Scripture and supported by the writings of Ellen White, continues to be held to unequivocally. And the inspired authorities on which these and other doctrines are based, namely the Bible supported by the writings of Ellen White, continue to be the hermeneutical foundation on which we as a church place all matters of faith and conduct. Let no one think that there has been a change of position in regard to this. "The question to which the church should constantly be sensitive is: Have we been loyal to "who we are and why we are"? Preserving our identity has to do with the integrity of our church." Where is Jesus in the statement that these doctrines are the "foundation on which we as a church place all matters of faith and conduct"? I probably shouldn't have reread it - it makes me so sad to know that so many are decieved. All I can do is pray, pray, pray. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 511 Registered: 10-2004 |
I just did a word search in that article and never, not once, does he use the name of Jesus. Have you noticed that he never looks happy in his photos? They used to have a big photo of him up at the adventist.org home page, but it's not up there anymore. He looked totally unhappy, with no joy, in the photo. I did a search for Paulsen on the official SDA web site (adventist.org) and came up with a page called "Let's Talk" where young people can ask him questions. One girl wrote, "I'm not married and I just found out I'm pregnant. What should I do?" Here is part of his response:
--http://letstalk.adventist.org/q_a/relationships/sex.html#_Toc80676920 Jeremy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 513 Registered: 1-2003 |
This jumped out at me from the link Jeremy provided above on the SDA stance on abortion. _______________________________________________ Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom. 6) Church institutions should be provided with guidelines for developing their own institutional policies in harmony with this statement. Persons having a religious or ethical objection to abortion should not be required to participate in the performance of abortions. ________________________________________________ IOW: They will uphold the 4th commandment all day long but won't uphold the 6th? | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 122 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, Wow! That is UNBELIEVABLE! That tell you everything you need to know about Paulsen, and thanks for the link. You are an incredible resource of info for us, and we thank you. Stan | ||
| Marcell Registered user Username: Marcell Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2004 |
I went over to the O'Fill website you linked to - I could only read for a couple of minutes before being overwhalmed with sadness and something akin to incredulity. Can they really be discussing whether or not to use power point, to clap, to have drums in church -STILL???? Is this their 'message' to a dying and lost world? I couldn't take it - felt something like post-traumatic stress. If you dear ones can bear to storm those 'gates of hell', then I will pray for you and bless you. I don't have the strength or the stomach for it. Marcell | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2005 |
I could have probably ignored the huge difference between what the church believed and what I believed, but my husband and I could not forever ignore the statements on the GC site that made claims about the environment, about abortion, about things which we complexly disagree with, and say we are SDA's and take that name. We couldn't in conscience sake keep calling ourselves something so aversive to the basics of what we believe to be not only true but moral and right. I thank God every day I'm set free by His Grace. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1727 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lisa, I completely agree with your position. That sense of not being able to call ourselves Adventists when we disagreed with the basic tenets of the church is what propelled us out. I also praise Gd for His freedom and grace! Colleen |
