| Author | Message | ||
| Yossariana Registered user Username: Yossariana Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2004 |
First, I just want to say Hi to everyone, you are a real support to me. I want to appologise for not replying for a long time, but I read your posts every day and I must admit that God helped me to find this site and see that other people are questioning the validity of Sda doctrine. At the begining I found it very difficult to give up rules, 'prophets' and temples and to start again to find Jesus. Also it took a while to understand that LOVE is the sign between Him and His people. For a few months I was concerned about 'the beast', not because Im very curious who or what it might be, but because I wanted to prove to myself that the Sda interpretation is flawed. So, I started with Daniel's prophecy. It seemed obvious to me that Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire were the first four beast in the 7 Chapter of the book. But I did have trouble finding the Roman Catholic Church among the beasts, especially the year 538 which continually drew blanks when my husband and I tried to study this prophecy. Sda are saying that 'the little horn' subdued 3 of the horns, who are supposed to be Heruli, Vandals and Ostrogoths, the latter of which was destroyed by the papacy in 538. Thus starting the 1260 year domination of the papacy. My studies over the last months have convinced me that this is wrong. In brief, I will outline below what I have discovered. 545-546 Ostrogoths occupied Roma under Totila. 552 Ostrogoths lost the battle with the Byzantine armies (at Taginae) and Totila was killed. 561 The last Ostrogothic city fell. Heruli and Vandals were destroyed by the Lombards and the Ostrogoths by the Byzantine Empire. Therefore none of the european tribes can be said to have been destroyed by the papacy. Rather than 538 as the begining of papal supremacy ,the real 'power' came in 1059 when the College of Cardinals was established. And the power began to wane in 1309 with the advent of the Avignon papacy. This information was gathered from contemporary history books rather than the dated sda authored books which inform the 'papal supremacy' theory. Further, Dr. Harold Damerow of Union County College, NJ has a webpage I also consulted. As for the ten horns I have yet to understand this part. Perhaps we can understand this as being the devived roman empire? Turning now to the beast in Revelation, Chapter 17, I see the woman and the beast as being clearly distinct. We can take it for granted that the woman and the beast are biblical symbolism for the church and kingdoms respectively. Thus, although we can see the image of the woman riding on the beast as refering to the Catholic Church, it can, infact, refer to any 'fallen' church (one that departs from the word of the Bible). Notice that the woman in rev 17 is 'the mother of prostitutes'. The beast which 'once was, now is not, and will come again' appears to me to be more akin to a political power, maybe the European Union or the revived Roman Empire. I found it interesting that those ten horns will bring the prostitute into ruin and will 'leave her naked'. This is as far as I have got, and of course there is much more to discover yet. I would apreciate your thoughts about this subject and any aditional ideas or sugestions would be very welcome. I am convinced that God will help us to understand the prophecy, and the beast, in due time. God bless, Yossariana. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1233 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yossariana, welcome back! I have not studied the beasts extensively, but I agree with you re: your conclusions thus far. The Catholic church just doesn't seem to be there as a distinct entity--but I agree that fallen churches are. I believe there are some mysteries we won't fully understand until they happen (or maybe are about to happen), but the Adventist version of eschatology just isn't in the Bible. Isn't it a blessing to be able to do inductive Bible study? God really reveals truth to us as we seek Him in His word. Colleen | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 299 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yossariana, Welcome back! Please update us on the happenings of your life. How is your husband? Are you reunited with him? Are you back in England? Or was it Sweden? How did the rest of your visit go with your home church? I have wondered about you and have prayed for you whenever you have come to mind. | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm sure that everyone has noticed the rise in power of the Islamic nations, and also the extensive terrorism that is coming out of these nations against the United States and Israel. Islam is also experiencing more converts than any other religion, western or eastern. I've often thought, If EGW were really a TRUE prophet, she would have predicted this or tied this in somehow with the beast and the end of times. Also, over the years the papacy has been declining dramatically, especially enlight of the recent pedophile-priests scandals. Even before I left the sda church I have often thought that the anti-Christ would have nothing to do whatsoever with the Catholic church. I've often thought that the beast would be a religious or political entity that would take us all by surprise, especially the sda church. Think about it. Islam is the religion that is most on the rise today. Why is this not included in prophesy? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1246 Registered: 12-2003 |
So true, Vchowdhury! Sometime in the 90s Chuck Colson wrote that he believed Islam was the power to watch, suggesting that it could become the oppressive antichrist force. Ellen obviously wasn't getting her information from God. Amazing, isn't it, that so many people have been seduced by this religion? I continue to pray that God will protect me (all of us here, actually) from deception. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1343 Registered: 11-2002 |
Herbert W. Armstrong also said to watch very closely the Middle Eastern Islamic countries in that they would fullfill those endtinmes prophices. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 459 Registered: 1-2003 |
The Catholic church cannot be the anti-Christ because they profess Jesus. I think Islaam is much more likely...I told the SDA that on CARM and they just about came unglued! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 681 Registered: 7-2003 |
I think you're right Pheeki. The anti-Christ isn't going to endorse Christ...he's going to claim to replace him. I don't care what they say about the pope...he has no political power and almost gets mentioned more out of courtesy in the news occasionally than any real reverence for "him" as an individual. I am fascinated about the rise of Islam and somewhat frightened by it as well. There is a group blatantly anti-Christian...not too much of a leap to shorten it to anti-Christ. It still just seems so petty to think Christians is going to be identified by "when" one worships. |
