| Author |
Message |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 243
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |     |
I KNOW! Talk about trying to buy your way into heaven. I had my first will done up by the SDA lawyers, however when I left I made sure I had it redone by a REAL lawyer! :-) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 3:30 pm: | |
Ha!
Wow, Esther--that's amazing, especially today. At least here in So Cal, Adventists are really trying hard to "talk evangelical". (Some, I think, are actually studying and moving toward a crisis of loyalty; some are just "reshaping" Adventism for the 21st century...)
Colleen |
Lori
Registered user
Username: Lori
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 9:22 pm: | |
This is on the subject on SDA's not believing someone would leave over doctrinal reasons. I made my feelings known about EGW to my family over 10 years ago....5 years ago I told them I no longer accepted as truth any of the distinctive doctrines of Adventists....3 years ago I official asked for my name to be removed from the church records.
I have openly not kept the Sabbath in front of Adventist family, openly eaten unclean foods in their presence and openly discussed my belief that the spirit never dies. I have repeatedly told them salvation is not about a day it's about the person of Jesus Christ.
However, last month, after a comment I made, my Mother asked me in a surprised and shocked tone (like this was a brand new revelation from me), "You mean you don't believe ANY of the distinctive doctrines of Adventism?"
They believe what they want to believe; they don't hear what you say because they don't want to hear it. How in the world my Mother has passed through the last 5 years and is still able to think I have Adventist beliefs circulating in my stream of consciousness as "truth" is impossible aside from her own self-deception. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 9:33 pm: | |
Hi, Lori--I notice this is your first post, but are you new, or have you just been gone for a long time?
Either way, welcome! We're glad to have you here!
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1293
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 9:52 pm: | |
I know there are others on here who are in the Pacific Union Conference. I think this conference area covers most of Californa, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and Hawaii. The magazine for this conference is called The Pacific Union Recorder. The issue that came in todays mail has quite a lot in it about the unhappy state of people who are leaving Adventism. It has an entire article about how to make people feel welcome, both visitors and long time members. It may be available online. Read it. It even as a letter from someone that felt so out of place in the SDA curch that finily out of desperation he started attending a Sunday church and lo-and-behold he was welcomed into this Sunday church with Christian kindness. Well, the gist of it is that people leave SDA'ism because of the cold and uncaring attitudes of the members, that many SDA's think of the church more like a club than a worship time and this drives people away. I think it is right as far as it goes. Of course the members think of the SDA church as a club. Why wouldn't they? What is going to make a church a vibrant house of God is the Holy spirit and this presence of the Holy Spirit will be evidant in the members when they are welcoming visitors as well as long time members. It all comes back to the presence of The Holy One. So, of course, it seems to me that SDA's would think of the SDA church as an exclusive club. |
Lori
Registered user
Username: Lori
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 10:19 pm: | |
Hi, Colleen, I'm not new....It has been several years since I've been a regular on the forum...all the "names" have changed now. I'm the one who wrote "Born into the Lesser Light".
I still drop in every couple of months to "read". I am no longer in an area where I am inundated with Adventist viewpoint so I now lack the ever-present conflict and frustration which previously drove me so frequently to find guidance,comfort and solace within this forum.
|
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 8:27 am: | |
Lori, I thought I recognized you! The numbering system for the posts became skewed a bit when we updated the software a year or two ago.
Good to see you back!
Colleen |
Tdf
Registered user
Username: Tdf
Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:18 pm: | |
Susan,
My wife and I have distanced ourselves from the SDA church because we do not believe in the 27 fundamental beliefs. However, I would also mention that I also feel that the small corner of the SDA church with which I am familiar can be very cold and condemning. This fact is merely incidental to the decisions we are making. However, I grew up in an ultra-conservative "historic" Adventist congregation and it was not at all uncommon for members to approach visitors and chide them for wearing "inappropriate" clothing, for bringing "inappropriate" food items for potluck, for sharing "inappropriate" music expressions during the worship service, and for disrupting the worship service by using spontaneous expressions such as "amen" or "praise the Lord." I would imagine that not all SDA congregations are as extreme as the one in which I was raised. However, based on my experience, I would have a hard time seeing the SDA church as being warm and accepting. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1300
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 3:29 pm: | |
Tdf, Back years ago in the SDA church every week in SS the people would be asked to share with the congreation how many contacts they had made to wittness of the SDA truth during the past week. The folks were even given forms to fill out and trun in. In fact, cleaning out my garage last week I came across a stack of those forms. I might snailmail them to Colleen so she has proof of this as the years pass. Nonetheless, when I was 17 I was chided one Sabbath as I was leaving church by an old bitty that I never did anything to share my faith with those who did not have the truth. She challanged me to do something Christian the next week. Then the following Saturday I was back at church with my parents. The old bitty took me aside after church and asked me if I'd done anything special during the past week like I'd promised her I would to share with the untruthed. I told her I had. She asked me what I'd done for Jesus. I told her I'd bought a can of coffee and took it and gave it to the rescue mission so the bums could have some nice warm coffee. Poor lady. I thought she was going to faint. Then she said that she guessed that God would ackowledge the good intentions I had because at least the coffee was less harmful than what those bums usually drank. The arragance of some people never ceases to amaze me. Jesus spent much of his ministry teaching the concept of humbleness. I do not recall EGW teaching about humbleness. Give me Jesus! |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 154
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 3:34 pm: | |
I remember those forms too, Susan! During Sabbath School class time (I think when I was in Juniors), the teacher would check on the form the responses for how many clothes were given away, how much literature was given out, how many people were witnessed to, and I forget what else was on there. I know at the time I thought it was absolutely ridiculous to ask those questions, and in such a public way. The text about doing good in private so no one sees your good works kept coming to mind. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 3:47 pm: | |
Wow Susan, the thing about questioning people and the forms to fill out and turn in, sounds just like the JWs.
About the coffee, EGW says the following regarding coffee:
"Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, an injurious indulgence, which, like other evils, injures the soul." (Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 425.)
Also, while looking that quote up on the EGW cd-rom just now, I came across this quote:
"Excessive indulgence in eating, drinking, sleeping, or seeing, is sin." (Gospel Workers, page 253.)
It is a sin to "see"?? What are we supposed to do, go around half the day with our eyes closed pretending we are blind even if we aren't???!!
Jeremy |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 156
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 3:48 pm: | |
Susan,
Based on the discussion I posted from CARM with the SDA there, perhaps they could argue that Jesus only acted humble so that He could connect to people, but it wasn't how He really was or wanted to act.
Yes I'm still "hung up" that someone can so blatantly re-write the actions of Jesus in order to fit their beliefs. And that so many of their cohorts on the board have jumped in to defend why it is OK.
I'm sure the "bums" were far more appreciative of the coffee than they would have been of some Postum! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 5:07 pm: | |
Oh, my goodness--Postum! I hadn't thought of that for a while! There was a "look alike" for everything, wasn't there?
Decaf was not even OK--of course, no one could ever really explain why in a convincing way--
But I figure if I'm going to drink something hot and brown, I want the whole effect, caffeine and all!
Colleen |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 89
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 5:17 pm: | |
I kind of like Roma, a similar drink to Postum - I like warm brown drinks in the evening, and I don't like to stay up all night!
helovesme2 |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 273
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 7:37 pm: | |
I grew up in a German-speaking SDA country church in western North Dakota (now disbanded). Some of the old-timer Adventists would frequently drink Sanka decaffeinated coffee (they amusingly called it "Sinda" coffee--colloquial German expresion for SIN :-). I discovered, at an early age, that this "SIN" coffee tasted wonderful. However, Postum (overly-burned wheat and molasses) was our usual hot drink when I was growing up Adventist.
Dennis Fischer |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1306
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 8:48 pm: | |
Dennis, was the community in ND predominately Lutheran? If so, how did the SDA's react to this? |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 530
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 8:14 am: | |
Dennis, as you probably know, my wife's side of the family are German speaking SDA farmers from ND as well. We attended a 80th birthday party for her Grandpa in ND a few years ago. Coffee was prepared and served at the community hall where the party took place, but Grandma made sure to take it out of the Folgers cans and put it into unmarked Tupperware so no one would know that it wasn't Postum.
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1203
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:48 am: | |
Did Grandma herself drink the unmarked coffee, Chris? How funny! |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 532
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:16 am: | |
Oh yes, Colleen they love coffee, but hiding it is kind of a good natured game. Nearly all the old SDA farmer there drink it as far as I can tell, but they joke about it being sin. There's a little wink and nod when it's served. They're not truly serious about really hinding it, it's more the idea of appearances.
When they use black pepper they say a German phrase which I can't say because I don't speak the language, but the translation is roughly:
"I need a little sin in my recipe"
It's all in good humor, but I am always struck by the similarities in our experiences. This sounds very similar to Dennis' reference to "sinda".
Chris |
Insideoutsider
Registered user
Username: Insideoutsider
Post Number: 28
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:53 am: | |
A very talented lady (non-SDA) who does cooking programs that are mainly fundraisers for LLU was seen sprinkling pepper on the dishes back stage. When she was told that "we don't use pepper" she quipped, "just call it whole wheat salt", and proceeded to prepare the food. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1317
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 1:30 pm: | |
My cousin married a lady who had been raised LDS. The lived for many yeas in Salt Lake City. Every morning uerous LDS neighbors would "pop" in at my cousins house because they knew his wife had hot coffee in the pot. They could drink it at my cousins house and be gracious guests and not actually have the stuff in their own homes so if any other Mormons were to come over they would not see any coffee. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 229
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 3:12 pm: | |
Susan, that sounds like that story of yours that I read on here about your uncle that would always go to his friends' house when they were having pork because he loved pork! 
That was a funny story. I just searched for it now, and found it. Here it is if anyone wants to read it! http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/2159.html#POST27506
Jeremy |
Jeannette
Registered user
Username: Jeannette
Post Number: 79
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 3:36 pm: | |
My sons like using pepper in their food, when my husband sees them using it he start stongly counceling them that pepper is very unhealthy. I asked him where he got that from and he says everyone knows that, all the doctors say that. So the last time he argued with my son about the pepper I went on line and found several articles that stated the healthful benefits of pepper I showed them to him. He read them and told me with a very sad voice that everything he knows has been twisted by EGW. I felt so bad for him maybe I shoul bite my tongue and not say anything. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 274
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 5:13 pm: | |
Susan,
Yes, I grew up in a largely Lutheran community. Most SDAs in the Plains States have roots to Lutheranism. My great-grandfather was a Lutheran minister in the Ukraine. To be fair and objective, some Lutherans were actually quite rude to their neighbors and relatives that converted to Adventism. On Saturdays, for example, Lutherans had confirmation classes. As the Adventists passed by the Lutheran church in their wagons enroute to the SDA church down the road, the Lutheran kids (during recess) would throw rocks at them and mockingly shout to them, "You Sabbatarians" in German. There were even extreme cases where one or two Lutherans would threaten the lives of candidates at a baptismal service at a creek.
This persecution greatly invigorated the "truth" stance by the new SDAs. Some Lutheran teenagers would wrestle down an SDA boy and forcibly make him drink beer (this actually happened to my brother during a neighborhood wheat threshing machine bee). Far more serious, there are documented cases where religious intolerance inspired some Lutherans and Catholics to actually burn down the barns and homes of the early converts to Adventism. They viewed Adventists as tearing apart their families and communities. These hostilities raged stronger in some communities than in others.
Needless to add, when Lutherans lost their friends and relatives to the deception of Adventism, it pierced their hearts. One of the few things they still had in common from the "old country" was their religion. Now they faced the challenge of a new way of life on the prairie--even a new heresy in their midst. Most Lutherans, of course, continued being very kind to them after they became Adventists. The book by SDA author, Berneice Lunday, entitled "UNBLESSED" gives vivid details of early Adventist life on the Plains. My late mother, Rena, was one of the heroines described in this book.
Life on the prairie in the early 20th century was very difficult. Basic survival was a daily challenge. When a child would disobey after a hectic day in the fields, they would literally beat the child for ten to fifteen minutes for a minor infraction of family rules. Likewise, when their fellow Lutheran farmers converted to Adventism is often brought out their worst reactions. Patience, understanding, and tolerance was not a part of their agrarian forte. The unrelenting toil and hardship of these early immigrant homesteaders left them with little energy for proper etiquette and/or refined demeanor.
Dennis J. Fischer |
