| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1167
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 2:01 pm: |     |
Raven, I think you'll find that many nondenominational or loosely denominational churches don't base their articles of faith on one of the Confessions. I'm not aware of Evangelical Free Churches being tied to any confession, for instance. Their 10 articles of faith do not inlcude any day of rest statements at all. They simply state their core beliefs and do not specify the law's function or fulfillment.
I agree with all of you; the issue of the law is not resolved in Christianity. Interestingly, I just received an article by a never-been-SDA person which I believe we may use for Proclamation eventually. He has an MTh from Trinity Ev. Sem. in apologetics, and a PhD in historic Christianity. He does a detailed explanation of the law's function from Israel onward, and his conclusion is that while there are ceremonial, civil, and moral aspects to many of the Torah laws, it is the ENTIRE law which was fulfilled in Jesus. It cannot be broken into parts, as Adventists, for example, do.
He states that Jesus is the Living Torah, and the new covenant "law" is the entire New Testament, as the entire Torah was Israel's law. Very interesting.
I agree, Chris--I've often thought that perhaps one of God's purposes in allowing so many of us to grow up Adventist (or otherwise become involved with Adventism) is that we will understand the New Covenant in a way much of Christianity does not, and we'll be able to speak on its behalf as God brings us the opportunities.
The heresies of the early church are still alive and well--but there are so many more people affected by them than there were then! We must be willing to speak when God brings the opportunities!
Colleen |
4drian
Registered user
Username: 4drian
Post Number: 42
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 10:52 pm: | |
In 1530, Charles V, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, called together the princes and cities of his german territories in a Diet at Augsburg. He sought unity among them to fend off the attacks of Turkish armies in Eastern Austria. He called upon the Lutheran nobility to explain their religious convictions, with the hope that the controversy swirling around the challange of the Reformation might be resolved. To this end, Philip Melanchthon, a close friend of Martin Luther and a Professor of New Testament at Wittenberg University, was called upon to draft a common confession for the Lutheran Lords and Free Territories. The resulting document, the Augsburg Confession was presented to the emperor on June 25, 1530. (16th Century)
Source: http://users.frii.com/gosplow/augsburg.html
The Augsburg Confession
http://www.bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.html
The Defense of the Augsburg Confession
http://www.bookofconcord.org/augsburgdefense.html
The Apology of the Augsburg Confession
http://www.ctsfw.edu/etext/boc/ap/
One last thing. I started reading through the Augsburg Confession and could not figure out why it says that Jesus descended into hell. I did some further research and found that it comes from the Apostle's creed (which I had read before but not closely enough because I had never noticed the part about Jesus' descent into hell). Anyway, I searched some more and found this:
http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q103.htm
It explained everything to my satisfaction. Anyway,
I'm posting all these links in case someone else is interesed. Hope they help! |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 11:20 pm: | |
We recite the Apostle's Creed every Sunday at church. We also pray the Our Father in unison. |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 131
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 9:41 am: | |
I was reading about the rich young man that asked Jesus how to obtain eternal life. In one book, the young man names what he must do, but in Mark 10:17 Jesus specifically names which of the commandments to keep. And the one he was lacking was not in keeping shabbat.
C's other argument is that he is willfully sinning according to Hebrews 10:26.. But everybody knows that is receiving the gospel and turning from it's truth of salvation.
What the heck is wrong?? Some scriptures are so plainly written even in KJV. I am angry.
I constantly go up in down in my emotions. Anger that they are blind, sad that they are brainwashed, hopeless that they can't understand the truth. Then angry again about thinking they are correct. <sigh> I don't think I .. nevermind.
Tracey |
Kristina3
Registered user
Username: Kristina3
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 12:39 pm: | |
What is very sad to me is this. When my SDA family has an opportunity to witness to others, they don't tell them about Jesus, they start off by telling them about the 10 commandments and the Sabbath. Like that is what will save them. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 657
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 1:05 pm: | |
What you're feeling is normal, Tracey. It is so strange to see my experiences in your descriptions. Stand strong on the word of God. That is the only thing that will ultimately carry you. Listen to uplifting praise music whether you feel like it or not...some day, your feelings will catch up and you'll come through the fog with a faith you didn't know you could have. (a pastor I listen to always says "act your way to new feelings"). But it's all part of the grief process. So normal....
Please tell me to shut up if you tire of my empathy. I just know where you are. And I'm so glad you're not where I now am. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1177
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 8:11 pm: | |
Kristina3, welcome to our discussions! We're glad to have you here. We'd love to hear more of your story.
Yes, I know what you mean about your relatives and sharing. It's frustrating and sad, isn't it?
Tracey, I second Melissa's post. Listen to praise music--it makes a difference. Speaking of which, I'm going to go turn some on now...
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 898
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 7:01 pm: | |
Tracey,
I think we all understand how you feel about the anger and frustration. The one thing I do know is I am so much happier following Jesus now. When I think I may be wrong, I read passages in the book of John about God's love for me. God is holding you up, young lady, and He may even be carrying you at this moment. Just relax in His arms. He loves you and He is awesome.
Diana |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 134
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 2:36 pm: | |
Melissa,
Shut up! Just kidding! : ) I appreciate all that you have ever told me, sis!
Tracey |
Tracey
Registered user
Username: Tracey
Post Number: 135
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 2:40 pm: | |
Thanks Di and Colleen, <looking for my CDs now..>
Tracey |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 178
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 5:41 pm: | |
I just had an ah-ha moment, thanks to a discussion with an SDA on CARM.
The SDA view of inspiration, that God inspires the thoughts and people use imperfect words to convey these thoughts, plays into their view of the special nature of the 10 Commandments. In their belief the 10 Commandments are the only direct words from God. Everything else, including the record of Jesus' words is only the imperfect words of men. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 99
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 5:46 pm: | |
I think you've hit on something there! That is what I was taught as an SDA (and that was why the Exodus version of the Ten Commandments was held in higher regard than the Deuteronomy Version).
helovesme2 |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 573
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 6:28 pm: | |
Whoa Ric! I never made that connection before, but I think you're right on.
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1269
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:33 am: | |
Ric, I've even heard comments that alluded to your observation, but I never made the connection in my head before. You are right!
Wow, the heresy of "thought inspiration" is even deeper than I realized!
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 272
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:59 am: | |
But how can they even trust the Bible's record of the Ten Commandments? What if Moses made mistakes in writing them down in the Bible? We don't even have the tables of stone that God wrote on!
Jeremy |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 183
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 3:56 pm: | |
Jeremy, you mustn't get so caught up in the details it will just lead you astray. :-)
Next thing you know you will be trying to confuse me with facts! |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1364
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 6:11 pm: | |
When SDa's start in on me with the 10 commandmants I generally get out my Bible and trun to the book of Dueteromy and start reading the 10 commandments to them. It starts out something like, "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of bondage,...". The SDA's really get put out when that passage is read. I tell them I am not an Isrealite. I am not Jewish. I have never been to Egypt. I am a Gentile. Now, lets go to Romans, Galations, Ephesians, etc. and read the instructions for Gentiles. I am a real thorn in the side to my SDA kin. |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 6:37 am: | |
Funny how "written by the finger of God in stone" seems to trump Jesus Himself being "the Word", the message, the One whom all things are summed up in. Somehow the writing on the stone became more important than the finger that wrote it. |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 138
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 11:09 am: | |
Amen Brother!
|
