| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 168 Registered: 4-2000 |
Spokenfor, We have SDA relatives (wife's side of the family) around Oswego, New York. They are in the well-drilling business. Historians call the upstate New York area the "burned-over district" due to the many cultic happenings and reform movements in the nineteenth century. Oswego is the location where Ellen White had her infamous health reform vision in 1863. Consequently, based on that vision, she wrote the book entitled "AN APPEAL TO MOTHERS: The Great Cause of the Physical, Mental, and Moral Ruin of many of the Children of our Time" the following year. What would the world be like today without that book on "secret vice" (smile)? Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 554 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dennis, Another thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Diana | ||
| Yossariana Registered user Username: Yossariana Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2004 |
I wonder how many of you do have msn. I would like to chat sometimes...I cant use internet here in Romania every day, but I do all my best. When I'll be in uk it'll be different. Tnx all for your prayers and I would be very happy to know that you will pray for us for the future as well. In Christ, Andreea. | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 663 Registered: 7-2000 |
Dennis, Thanks for the e-mail article... Yes! That is what that particular vision of Ellen White's was..."infamous". Too bad all her visions weren't all suppressed and/or thrown out! grace always, cindy | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 475 Registered: 7-2003 |
I would cry if I had to live in the Dakota's too. It's not warm to me until it's 85. Thanks for the interesting history lesson. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 685 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, I'd never thought before about how vulnerable those European immigrants were to Adventism. Richard's grandpa Ratzlaff and his brother, Dale Ratzlaff's father, were from a Russian-German family who fled Russia and settled in the Dakotas before emigrating west. There was both Adventism and Mennonite beliefs in the family history. Your explanation of the the new culture, new language, and new hardships making them vulnerable is so insightful. Thank you. And yes, Andreea, I will continue to pray for you. Colleen | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, I'm quite sure I know members of your wife's family well - unless there is more than one well-drilling Adventist family in the Oswego/Fulton/Dexterville area. Adventism is a 'small world' and NY is a small conference. That's an interesting tidbit about the Oswego vision. I agree with Cindy - too bad all her visions weren't suppressed AND thrown out. It would've saved a lot of people of lot of misery. | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2003 |
Colleen, my Russian-German grandmother also fled Russia during the 1st world war. She went through some very traumatic circumstances and was fortunate to escape with one young son. Coming to Canada must've been such a relief after what she went through, while at the same time frightening to leave familiar surroundings and loved ones to go to an unkonwn land. I can only imagine how vulnerable that would leave one. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 924 Registered: 11-2002 |
This discussion has gotten to be very interesting to me. My moms parents settled in Canada for awhile and then went to the Dakota's, too. It was there when at age 17, in the early 1900's that my grandmother heard of some prophecy meetings in a big tent. She was the only one in her family to become SDA. The others stayed Menninite, Lutheran, Methodist. My dads family immagrated from Ukarine through Ellis Island. They had been Menninite. My dads family was also the only ones in his relatives to become SDA. Apparently his side of the family in Ukarine were mostly Catholic. His Canadian relitives are either Catholic or Meninite. I think these immagrants were easy prey for the SDA just as the Hispanic immagrants in Southeran California are now. Have any of you heard of a town called Reedley, Ca.? The Menninite church is quite prominite there. They have a big aucton there every year. Also, the Menninite college is in Fresno. It s a very respected school. | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 131 Registered: 7-2004 |
Andreea, Please know that I have your name in my prayer journal along with your husband and also for your SDA "friends" in Romania. How much longer until you are reunited with your husband? You guys are going to settle in England? Is that your next destination? When is your husband finshed with his schooling? Why do you have to be apart for so long? (I am anxious for you to be away from the "darkness" of your SDA church and pastor!) ...Forgive my nosey questions if you find them too personal...  | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 170 Registered: 4-2000 |
The International Museum of Germans from Russia is located here in Lincoln, Nebraska. With so many former Adventists with this background, this is another good reason why the Second Annual Former Adventist Conference should be held here. After all, our Governor has declared "Nebraska--the good life!" As a good Catholic, he hasn't found it necessary to confess any inaccuracy of this slogan (smile). Oh yes, lest I forget, Lincoln is the home of the BIG RED football machine, the HUSKERS. Although not a football fan, I keep up with the scores to be a good Lincolnite. From BIG RED toilet seats to T-shirts, Nebraska retailers are ready for your arrival. Indeed, BIG RED football is big business here. Many years ago, my wife cooked for the hospitalized football players on Sundays. With just a quick phone call to the University hospital kitchen, they could have their favorite food without any hassles. Their appetites were always healthy despite being injured. With sometimes only two or three players in the campus hospital, my wife fed them well. These days, however, injured players are admitted to a regular community hospital. Yossariana, Yahoo Instant messaging is very popular as well. It is a great way to communicate. For those who have a webcam, two or more can see each other as they chat (like a conference call). If you also have a microphone, the conversation can be audible (typeless). Best of all, it is FREE (if you have an Internet connection). Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 378 Registered: 7-2003 |
My wife's maternal family line (Kungel) are all German's from Russia who live in ND. They are also all SDAs. We go up their regularly to visit. Trust me Melissa, it gets above 85 in ND, WAAAAAYYYY above. It's REALLY hot in the summer and REALLY REALLY cold in the winter. Spring and summer aren't bad, but they only account for about two days out of the year :-) Chris | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 171 Registered: 4-2000 |
THE COMPLEXITY OF PERSECUTION Berneice Lunday wrote a small book titled simply "UNBLESSED" in 1979. This book, part of the Orion Series, was published by the Southern Publishing Association that used to operate in Nashville, TN. Berneice Lunday relates incredible, truthful accounts of how her SDA family and friends were persecuted for their newly-found faith in western North Dakota during the early 1920s. I am very much acquainted with her family. We lived in the same area and attended the same German-speaking, SDA country church. In fact, my late mother "Rena" is mentioned in the book as being a model Sabbatarian to her parents. Catholic and Lutheran relatives and neighbors even burned down their farm buildings, hurled rocks at them, threatened their lives at a creekside baptism, etc. Without any doubt, their ordeal was most difficult and even intensely dangerous at times. These early immigrant families were a close-knit clan in order to survive the harsh life on the prairie frontier. Sharing the same religion was also a comforting factor in their new country and culture. It was the one thing that was unchanged in their lives. As some immigrants converted to Adventism, it obviously disrupted family ties, traditions, diet, worship times, etc. It was deeply painful for both sides. The deception of Adventism divided their families and community life. Things would never be the same again. The spirit of Adventism wrought an unprecedented measure of disharmony that nobody deserved. While the non-Adventists, in Lunday's book, revealed religious intolerance and a serious lack of Christian love, we former Adventists find ourselves being persecuted anew by the persecuted themselves. Adventists delight to tell the stories of their persecution as though it held virtue for them in some way. The truth is that the virtue in any religious persecution is dependent upon allegiance to Jesus Christ. Many people even die for the wrong causes and reasons. The Mormons, for example, were badly persecuted as well. They too routinely persecute their former members as Adventists often do (i.e., jobs, wills, family ties, friendships, etc.). The negative things (cheap shots) that SDAs tell about us former insiders is not worth reciting or printing. Indeed, as Christ-followers, we are called to love and to pray for the unloveable--even those that "despitefully use us." His grace still amazes me, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 106 Registered: 2-2003 |
It's very interesting to hear that so many of you have Eastern European ancestry. My uncle also emigrated first to Canada (Toronto), then moved to Vancouver and thence to Seattle. He first moved in about the 1940s, I think. Even though he was from England, he still got bombarded by various cults. Our family background is Baptist, but he seriously considered the JWs and eventually ended up becoming a Mormon, and remainded one all his life. I have heard that his widow has since left, but I don't know how or why. It is true about being vulnerable as a foreigner. I believe God called me to Hungary, but I was very lonely at first, and I ended up getting involved with a church which was a member of what I would consider a "denomination" and not a cult, but the individual congregation and leader were very controlling and spiritually abusive. I felt really stressed so much of the time, like I had to meet their expectations, without it really being expressed in so many words what those expectations were. It took me ages to figure out what was actually going on. I suppose I was rather naive. I ended up leaving and going to another church, because God told me to, and then realised from the reaction of the leadership (this is not God's will, we will make sure you never preach again, God has shown me there are things wrong in your life, etc. - all a load of hot air really, but it was scary) just how "cultish" it was, without actually being a member of a cult. I have since found out, that many churches in this area of Central Europe are just like that, and I think one reason God took me through that was to teach me what a lot of Christians here have to put up with. So Andreea, I sympathise, and it is not only SDA that do it. So don't let them intimidate you. By the way, sorry, I don't know anyone at all in the Leamington Spa area, and I have never met any British Adventists, ex- or otherwise. God bless, Adrian | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 689 Registered: 12-2003 |
You know, I'm sitting here pondering the significance of so many of us having European immigrant forebears who fell prey to cults and wondering what general principles might be in this situation. I'm wondering if this fact might be intructive to us as we ponder the reality of modern Adventism. The fact is that Adventism is dwindling in the developed world, but it is growing hugely in the developing world. I'm thinking "out loud" here, so to speak, but I'm wondering if the common thread among our ancestors who recently emigrated and those in the develping world who are accepting Adventism (and Mormonism, I might add) is the awakening desire to become established and secure and stable. Obviously, there are differences. Those in the developing world are not in a new culture--yet Western culture is knocking on their door (instead of them leaving and going to the promise of a good life). Western culture promises them what America promised our forefathers--freedom, financial success, a new start, even adventure. In the process of embracing something new which promises to make their dreams reality, they are deceived into seeing these religions part of the package that will define their security. SDA-ism and Mormonism promise community and support and "truth" and a future, and it's all related to becoming educated, employed, and embracing new opportunities for personal and financial and spiritual growth. I haven't thought this through deeply, but it seems to me that, on the surface at least, some of the same things are at work in the developing world today that were at work in North America a century ago. Interesting to ponder. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 926 Registered: 11-2002 |
Colleen, Your out loud thoughts are very similiar to what I mentioned above. | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2004 |
You may very well be right on your theories. But what is keeping people from hearing a loving presentation of the real Gospel and developing a relationship with Jesus? Praise God... | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 133 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, your thoughts are intriguing and I would suspect very valid. Praise God, Great question. What is the growth of main-stream Christianity as compared with SDA and LDS in those countries that are experiencing this membership surge? How about here in the U.S.? Anyone have any numbers? | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2004 |
Colleen, I might add to that thought the number of cults or psuedo-cults that operate on college campuses. A relative of mine was caught up in a charismatic cult during college. THAT group made SDAs seem liberal and open! Fortunately he got out not too long after joining. But it has left him hating anything called "Christian". | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2003 |
Colleen, your thoughts above are similar to ones I have. As Praisegod wondered, I also wonder what is keeping these people from hearing and holding on to the pure Gospel? Is it just a matter of who gets to them first? I would love to see some statistics comparing growth of 'cultism' and mainstream Christianity in those areas too. |
