| Author | Message | ||
| Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7) |
The other day I was at the library and was browsing through religion books and reading through a few Bible commentaries they had on the shelves. I was curious to read what they had to say on the Sabbath and each one gave for the most part the same idea that never struck me before... that the Sabbath was not primarily designed as a day of worship, but rather just a day of rest. Now that may seem very elementary, but I immediately thought of the way Adventism likes to address the Sabbath particularly in the Saturday vs. Sunday issue. To them, Sabbath is a day of worship that can only be taken on Saturday. But I took the liberty to look up in my own Bible every Sabbath instance I could find and not one addresses the issue of which day to worship God. Even the fourth commandment itself mentions nothing about worship, but rest. The commentary made note (this isn't an exact quote) that only when one truly is in a state of rest does true worship take place. I thought about that for a minute. In our daily lives, we get so bogged down in stuff that we sometimes cannot worship God the way we should because of pressing issues on our minds, etc. When we stop what we're doing and focus on God, we can worship Him with all of ourself. God never said the Hebrews couldn't worship Him on the Sabbath, but His primary purpose was rest. (Besides, if God keeps the Sabbath as Adventists claim, then who does He worship? Himself?) The main difference between Judaism and Christianity is Christ and in Christ we have rest. In Christ we have Sabbath. We can rest everyday in the work Christ has already done for us. Sabbath can't be about what day we worship, because God constantly desires worship and even creation doesn't wait until Saturday to roll around to worship God. Just something I thought I'd share! God bless! Joel | ||
| Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater) |
Great observation, Joel! I've thought about that too. Even if Adventists have the Sabbath DAY correct (which they don't), they are more guilty of breaking it than many "Sunday Keepers", who use Saturday as their 'day off'. Gosh, what a flurry of activity Sabbath usually was in our house!! As I got a bit older, I was often glad it was over -- not so I could now go out and DO SOMETHING, but rather, so I could finally QUIT DOING all those things that were EXPECTED of me on that very busy day! As an aside, I had a humorous thought (funny to me, at least ;-) -- Muslims keep Friday; Jews and SDAs keep the Sabbath; Christians "keep" Sunday; PASTORS "keep" MONDAY... Sunday certainly isn't a 'day of rest' for most Christian pastors!! But then, by default, that means that SDA pastors are likely those who actually "KEEP" Sunday (according to the worst SDA fears) the best of anybody! Anyone else see the irony in that? Just a thought... Anyway, Joel, that was a great observation. Thanks for sharing it with us. Gosh I'm so glad to finally have an ETERNAL rest -- in Jesus alone! Leaning on the Everlasting Arms, Den<>< | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 98 Registered: 3-2004 |
Being new to the FAF I like to read all that is here. This one struck my funny bone. It is amusing to think that SDA ministers are likely those who actually keep Sunday. It is so good to rest every day in Jesus and only Him. God is awesome. Diana | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2000 |
Dennis, I'm still laughing to myself. Thank you. Does anyone know if there is a way to use spell check on our posts? I'm sadly far too dependant on it now, and it shows. Please help! Kme | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Kme, I sometimes use microsoft word, and then copy and paste my post over to faf. | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2004 |
I remember when the SAbbath was a terrible burden and no matter what I did,its condeming finger pointed at me. Now, praise God, I have been delivered from that condemnation. The Sabbath is now my blessing, my precious gift of rest, fellowhip, and worship. My salvation is not wrapped up in it. I am free to enjoy it. I am also free to enter into the celebrations of the Feasts of Israel. Not in legalism, but in celebration of all that God has done. As I read a lot of the postings, I see that a lot of people are finding their freedom to throw off doctrines that have been misrepresented and misused. But freedom is not just permission to remove things from your life, it is also permission to adjust things and to add things to your life. For awhile now, I have been asking God to change me into what He wants me to be, and surprisingly he has added to my life something I resented and resisted while I was in Adventism--submission. God pours out his blessing when we come to Him in submission. It's more an act of the heart than a set of do's and don'ts. Instead of throwing out the SAbbath. I am putting myself into submission to the SAbbath. No one is requiring it, regulating it or judging me. I am just being blessed. This is just my experience. It is not a judgment on anyone. Sharon | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 73 Registered: 3-2004 |
Yesterday I had a ministry planning lunch with two friends of mine. When we were talking about when to schedule the next meeting, one made the comment that he would prefer it to be a different day because he and his family are trying to do a "Sabbath rest" for the family. I'm sure I looked pretty shocked and he went on to explain that it wasn't a "law" kind of thing but they just wanted a family rest day to do things together. This man is COO of a multi-million dollar corporation so he has an extremely stressful job. His choice of phrases was interesting because he's a Spirit-filled Presbyterian, actively involved with his church. Praise God... | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2000 |
Sharon 2. I don't take that as a judgement. I'm happy for you that you have found rest and fellowship. For some of us however, it becomes a day of legalism. We kept the Holy Days as named in Leviticus for a couple of years and didn't celebrate the "pagan" holidays. At first I thought it was such a blessing. It gave me a better understanding of our Jewish roots as being part of God's people. I felt very blessed to be celebrating "God's Holidays" instead of the pagan ones that originated from evil. But after a couple of years I noticed that instead of joy it became a burden. There was too much emphasis on our doing it right instead of God having done it right! I was upset because I had to make sure there was no leavening in anything in the house during the Days of Unleavened Bread. Soon, I noticed that we were focusing less and less on the Gospel of Jesus and more and more about what we should or shouldn't participate in with the world. I now believe God used that to show us true freedom through His Son. It means that I look to him for what he has already done and less on me. I do miss the fellowship with that church though. They were family to us. But beliefs do separate people as well as bring them together and that's what happened unfortunetly. There are so many issues of difference between New Covenent and Old Covenent teachings that it's hard to find enough common ground that is not offensive. They cannot understand why we believe we are saved. So we parted ways and have remained friends loosely with only one couple from that church. Sad. I've often wanted to attend there some for the fellowship, but I know it wouldn't be the same and since we don't believe that way, what's the point? I pray we find our place soon. Have a blessed day. Kme | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2004 |
Either, I am just not much of a theologian or I have found the secret to worship without legalism. I enjoy and celebrate Sabbath, the Feasts, Christmas, Easter, but I do not allow them to become burdensome. If my job is too stressful to allow me to clean the house and prepare for SAbbath, I just have Sabbath in a dirty house and we go out to eat after services. If I can not (and I do not)go through all the physical preparations for various feast days, I just delve into their spiritual meaning. I have always enjoyed Christmas but I only celebrate it to the extent that my energy and my finances permit. In our "Jewish" congregation, Easter, usually referred to as First Fruits or Ressurection Day, is always a reason to gather and celebrate victory over the grave. Fortunately in our congregation every one observes these things to the extent that they are impressed to do so by the Holy Spirit, and no one is judged or counciled. Although, we have had some leave the congregation because the leadership has refused to take a legalistic stand on this type of thing. I like the way this principal is stated In Romans 8:1-4 and just for the sake of flavor, I'll share it with you from the Complete Jewish Bible Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the Torah of sin and death. For what the Torah could not do by itself because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being . . . so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. Romans 8: 1-4 Sharon | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 338 Registered: 7-2003 |
Perhaps I'm being a bit picky here, but I can see where the translation above might be a bit confusing. To avoid confusion, let me make this clarification. The word used in Romans 8:1-4 is not "Torah", but "nomos" and it means "that which is assigned" and is usually translated "law", "laws", or "principles". It can refer to the Mosaic law, but it is also used in a much broader sense within the NT. The Hebrew word "Torah" is most commonly used today to refer specifically to the Mosaic law or the Pentateuch. Although in a generic sense it could have a similar meaning to "nomos" it is not generally used this way. My point being, without understanding that a Hebrew word has been substituted for a Greek word in this translation and without an understanding of the range of meanings of both words, it would be easy to assume that all 4 occurances of the word "nomos" in Romans 8:1-4 refer directly to the Mosaic law. Such an assumption would be hermeneutically suspect. I would suggest that "the law of the Spirit of life" (nomos pnuema zoe) is presented in direct contrast to "the law of sin and death" (nomos harmartia thanotos), i.e. the latter refers directly to the Torah or Mosaic law while the former does not and is actually contrasted as over and above the Mosaic law or Torah. Chris | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 320 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thanks Chris...I too had the same thoughts...we know that the Ministry of death and Ministry of the Spirit are two different things. (One has faded and the other remains!) God Bless you all. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 281 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you, Chris. In fact, one of the most important details in my understanding the new covenant was in understanding the places where "nomos" was used instead of "Torah" in the NT. That distinction was hugely important for me! Colleen | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2004 |
The purpose of this particular translation is to put the entire Bible into a culturally acceptable version for Jewish people. To the Jewish mind, the Torah is the first 5 books of the OT and it is the total law. All other books of the OT are commentary. The author/translator of this version has translated the NT with this mind-set. The mind-set being that the NT is commentary on the Torah. Since Sabbath and most of the legalistic issues are Jewish in origin and originate in the first 5 books, it seemed good to look at it from that viewpoint. I imagine that was Paul's viewpoint when he wrote his letters that became our NT. I will admit that this translation can be a bit challenging when all the Greek names become Hebrew names, when other words like priest become cohen, and baptism is mikvah, etc. But, this translation is useful when you are explaining salvation to a Jewish person. I also use it to put more of a Jewish flavor in some places in the series of books that I am writing on the life of Jesus. One surprise benefit of having some familiarity with this version of the Bible was that when I saw the Passion, I immediately understood all the names and a few words here and there. Next time I'll use a more familiar version. Sharon | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2004 |
The Lord nudged me this morning saying that the last few posts had strayed from the important point: There is no condemnation for those who have been washed in the blood, died with Christ, and have risen into a new life in Him. When I was first coming out of Adventism, I had to be told many times from many versions the message of Romans 8. There is no condemnation! Adventism has a culture of both human and divine judgment. When you have been in that culture a long time, it is very difficult to break lose. Even though you physically leave, demonic spirits keep shouting condemnation. Those spirits have to be rebuked, bound, cast away and you have to hold your ground with this scripture. Once those spirits of condemnation are silenced, then you can easily maintain relationships with former SDA friends as well as friends from other legalistic denominations. Their legalism will roll off of you like water off a duck's back. And that is where your witness begins. Sharon | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2004 |
Joel, I like your post about the Sabbath being a day of rest and not worship. I did not realize it until now as I re read your post. Thanks for expanding my mind. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 322 Registered: 1-2003 |
Sharon 2, you are right...Adventism has a demonic hold on people...FEAR mixed with PRIDE. Praise the Lord for liberating me and though I still struggle with feelings of condemnation at times...I hold onto these scriptures (promises of Jesus...why don't SDA's take Him at His word???) Peace I give to you, not as the world gives, do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. Those who die shall live again and those who live shall never die...do you believe this? All that the Father has given to me will come to me and they cannot be snatched from my hands! And the words of Paul...Love casts out fear...those who fear have not been perfected in love. (all verses paraphrased by me.) Pheeki: I believe that is one way to know that the message you are hearing is not from God...if it envokes fear or pride...just my opinion. | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2004 |
Pheeki, I am secure in all the promises that you quoted. When I lived in Adventism, I lived in terrible fear. In the process of transitioning out of Adventism, I had a number of supernatural deliverance experiences before those demons of fear were totally cast out. Several times I was "slain in the spirit". Once when I was counciling with our rabbi and his wife, he suddenly turned, pointed his finger at me and began forcefully ranting in tongues. I felt something leave my body. It has never come back. And, since that time every time a condeming/fear-provoking thought has entered my mind, I just automatically rebuke it in my prayer language and those lying demons of fear and condemnation are immediately silenced. I know that what I am writing about is totally out there in a realm that is far removed from Adventism. Since I'm out there, I'll tell one more story about my deliverence from fear. Not long after the Lord put me in fellowship with the Messianic Jewish Congregation, the doctor told me that she felt something highly suspecious in my breast, that I was to have a mammogram the next day and a biopsy was being scheduled. I was terrified! That evening I went to the cell group. I asked for prayer against fear. The elder conducting that meeting came over and put his hand on my back. He began to pray in tongues. His hand burned through two layers of clothing like a heating pad on high and then I felt the most wonderful waves of love rolling through me. My fear completely vanished and did not return. I have only felt those waves of love that one time, but if that is what heaven is going to be like, I don't need a mansion. I don't care about the streets of gold or anything else we have been told to expect. Just give me those waves of love! The next day, I had the most perfectly clean mammogram they had ever seen! Every day,I tell God how much I love him. I am so sure of my salvation, not just in terms of the second coming, but in terms of being freed from the demonic and living in his power on this earth. Sharon | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 293 Registered: 12-2003 |
God is so faithful to give us what we need, physically and spiritually. The freedom from perpetual worry is one of the great gifts for which I praise God! I used to be paralyzed by fear and worry, often unable even to participate fully or to enjoy the things I was involved in. One day I asked God to take the spirit of worry from me, and He so graciously put the assurance of His Spirit where that intractable worry had been. Jesus' love is the most powerful force in the universe! Colleen | ||
| Kme Registered user Username: Kme Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2000 |
Sharon, I wish the congregation that we had worshiped with had been as open-minded and unjudgmental as yours seems to be. We were instructed not to as much as eat a Christmas cookie at work so as not to appear that we were in agreement or participation of a pagen holiday! Easter of course would be just as bad. I'm quite frankly suprised by this Messianic group you are with. The group we were with was not Messianic Jewish but most had been former WWCOG. I have never been to Messianic Jewish but from what I've heard from others who have, it was not like yours with respect to celebration of all these days Holy and otherwise. They are much more dogmatic about it. Kme | ||
| Sharon2 Registered user Username: Sharon2 Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2004 |
Kme, Under the umbrella of the Messianic Jewish movement (it is not an organized denomination) there is everything from wildly charismatic to legalistic orthodox. There are even some Adventist Messianic Jewish congregations. (That scares me!) Those congregations that have formed a network of congregations under the umbrella of Tikkun are both Messianic Jewish and Charismatic and they are pretty balanced. But, I can clearly see that the devil is trying to turn them to leglaism. So far, Godly men have listened to the Spirit and resisted. Each congregation is independent so each has its own personality. I think I am blessed to be in a very special one. Our website is brithadasha.org. |
