| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Kelly, I sure do understand people "doing" what you describe: <<In short I felt very uncomfortable during the prayer time with five or six people saying "Yes, Jesus", "Thank you Jesus" and "Oh, sweet Jesus" it was so distracting that I couldn't even tell you what the lady that was praying said.>> That is something I can relate to, too!!! I have been out of the SDA Chruch for 25 years and that still makes me squirm a bit;-)) It can grow on you though when you understand that they are worshipping God. Still, I do prefere a little more structure. There are many Churches and Bible studies that have the structure you are used to;-)) As to the concept of not having to do anything to be saved except believe. I fully believe that. I fully believe that it is Biblical. I know that it is Biblical! Where I see the problem is that some people/Churches don't disciple after the gospel is presented. The gospel...salvation by grace alone, was never intended to be used as a license to sin. When the gospel is presented to someone, as it was presented to me about 6 years ago, I was so UN-discipled that I used it as a license to sin. I like to put it this way, since the Bible uses birth as a way to describe one being accepted into God's kingdom. With a normal birth comes growth. If there is little or no growth, there is physical/mental retardation. In a similar way, with re-birth comes growth, if there is little or no growth, there is spiritual re-tardation. Within in the confines of a humanistic illustration and leaving gestation out of it, one could say that after birth, comes growth. You grow because you are born, not to be born. You can NEVER take the fact of the birth/salvation away. You don't maintain a birth/salvation by growth. Growth is an evidence of birth/salvation. You may die, but that will never cancel the FACT that you were born/re-born. This makes sense to me and kids can understand it when illustrated this way. I hope this puts "re-birth by grace alone" in an easy to understand light for you. There are some that would take issue with this illustration and like ANY human illustration, it falls short. So please look at the intent and principle of this illustration;-)) IBC.....Insured By Christ | ||
| Max |
Kelly, ^^I fear that you have taken my friends comment "salvation requires nothing from us" a little TOO much at face value. The discussion that I was having with my friend was over Sabbath observance and the 10 commandments that these were required from us as part of our salvation. Her actual reply was "our salvation requires no works of the law in order to be in effect". (I stated it too simply. I know the exact words she told me and I also know the "exact" words that I thought she told me! They are completely different concepts!) However, I still feel as if this is a permission to do as you please.^^ How can the gospel of being under free grace and not under law be "permission to do as you please" when Paul clearly states the following: NIV Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do NOT use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature ; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "LOVE your neighbor as yourself." 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16 So I say, live BY the Spirit, and you WILL NOT gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are NOT under law. 19 The acts of the sinful nature are OBVIOUS: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have CRUCIFIED the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. You'll notice that keeping the seventh-day of the week holy is NOT on this list. Nor is there anywhere in the entire New Testament a commandment to keep it holy. Rather, don't you think it's possible to be keeping the Sabbath, paying tithe, and shunning honey-baked ham as a SUBSTITUTE for the really hard stuff: "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control"? I hope I'm not coming on too strong here. God loves you, Kelly, Max of the Cross | ||
| Kelly |
I will have to agree that the Sabbath is not mentioned in the text that you have provided, you are correct. I understand that salvation is by faith, but this faith will produce fruits as proof of our faith, is not observance of the commandments a fruit of our faith? In all the gospels, except for John, the story of the rich young ruler is told. He asked what he had to do to obtain eternal life? Christ said, "You know what the commandments are". And he named some of the 10 commandments. Doesn't this support the fact that the commandments are binding? Christ told him he still lacked one thing. He had to give up everything that he had and follow Him. I understand that the thing that the young man lacked was belief in Jesus Christ for he referred to Christ as "good teacher", but Christ still pointed the man to the commandments, the 10 commandments. How then can we say that we are not to keep the Sabbath? I really don't see how this story of the rich young ruler fits into the simplicity of Believe and you will be saved. If that was it, then why didn't Christ just say, you have to humble yourself and believe in me more than your wealth, why did Christ mention the commandments? Another text that I don't understand is the one in Revelation "here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God" if all we have to do is just believe in order to be saved, then why doesn't it just say "here is the patience of the saints, those who believe in God"? Do any of you know something about these texts that make them agree with "Believe and thou shalt be saved that I'm just not seeing? | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Kelly, I've never addressed your questions before but on this one I'm hoping that there will be some benefit in it for you. You asked: "Another text that I don't understand is the one in Revelation "here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God" if all we have to do is just believe in order to be saved, then why doesn't it just say "here is the patience of the saints, those who believe in God"? Do any of you know something about these texts that make them agree with "Believe and thou shalt be saved that I'm just not seeing?" In the Book of John, Chapter 6:28-29 "Then they asked Him, "what must we do to do the works God requires?" verse 29 "Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Do you believe Jesus? Jesus said those words. Further down in the same Chapter of John 6 beginning with verse 39, Jesus continues talking and He says: "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that He has given me, but raise them up at the last day." Verse 40 "For my Father's will is THAT EVERYONE WHO LOOKS TO THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY." Blessings on you Kelly and keep the questions coming as many of them are the very ones I had at one time too. your sister in Christ Jesus, Denise the berean | ||
| Max |
Hi Kelly, I don't have time to post a lot right now, but I'll say a little bit about each issue that you raised: 1. ^^Is not observance of the commandments a fruit of our faith?^^ Yes it is. Christ says so. But the Old Covenant (Old Testament) commandments of circumcising, Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, ham-shunning, etc., are not given as commandments in the New Covenant (New Testament). You can find Nine of the Ten Commandments, but the Fourth was only a shadow pointing to seven-days-each-week eternal rest in Christ (Hebrews 3 & 4). 2. ^^Christ said, "You know what the commandments are". And he named some of the 10 commandments. Doesn't this support the fact that the commandments are binding?^^ No. For the rich young ruler said, "All these I have kept from my youth up." Jesus was trying to do two things: (A) To show him that keeping the Ten Commandments was not earning salvation for him. Salvation comes at an infinitely higher cost. (B) To introduce him to the reality that grace alone would suffice and be all-sufficient: But God's grace requires a repentant and obedient response. They go together like two sides of the same coin: God's grace and our obedience to it. Thus, Christ said, "Go, SELL all that thou hast, GIVE to the poor, then COME and FOLLOW me. But this grace -- real grace -- was what the young man was unwilling to give. He was unwilling to give his ALL. He made his choice to serve self (Satan) in response to God's freeing grace. 3. ^^How then can we say that we are not to keep the Sabbath?^^ Nowhere does the New Covenant say "we are not to keep the Sabbath." Romans 14 says, "Whatever you believe about these things [disputable matters] keep them between yourself and God." Some Christians keep "one day more sacred than another." Others keep "every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord." The point is that we are not to do anything which might cause a person for whom Christ died to stumble by our behavior. 4. ^^Why didn't Christ just say, you have to humble yourself and believe in me more than your wealth, why did Christ mention the commandments?^^ To show the young man that his keeping of the commandments would gain him nothing. Remember, he said he HAD kept them from his youth up. Obviously he WAS keeping the Sabbath, probably far better than any SDA has ever done. He needed free grace followed by repentance (from trusting in the command- ments, including the Sabbath), submission to God (rather than to the commandments), and obedience (following the leading of Jesus Christ, taking up his cross and following Him, becoming a disciple). Do you realized that Christ was calling this man to be his disciple? Remember, Christ only called twelve men. And it was the one who trusted in his Sabbath-keeping that kept him out. Something to think about, don't you agree? 5. ^^Another text that I don't understand is the one in Revelation "here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God" if all we have to do is just believe in order to be saved, then why doesn't it just say "here is the patience of the saints, those who believe in God"?^^ Revelation was written by John. In all of John's Scriptures the Greek word for "command- ments" ALWAYS refers to Christ's [the Son God's] commandments and NEVER to those of Moses. And the Greek word for word "law" NEVER refers to Christ's [the Son God's] commandments and ALWAYS to those of Moses. And so what this text in Revelation is really saying is this: Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of Christ and who DO NOT RELY ON THE LAW OF MOSES as the rich young ruler did. God loves you, Kelly, Max of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
OK all with sharper minds than mine tonight...on which line were we discussing (in the last month) John's use of the word commandments in Revelation and in his Epistles? Remember? The bit on his use of one Greek word to refer to New Covenant commandments and one Greek word to refer to the Mosaic law? This info would be of help to Kelly on the text above. I do know it is in the wonderful online book I am forever pitching, "New Covenant Christians." I would love to talk more but my brain is shot for the night. I have spent the last couple of hours doing math with my son. What they are doing in 7th grade now I had as a freshmen in high school!!! And that was longer than I care to be reminded of anyway. Peace to all. Valerie | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Revelation 14:12 Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) Here [5602] hode is [2076] esti the patience [5281] hupomone of the saints: [40] hagios here [5602] hode [are] they that keep [5083] tereo the commandments [1785] entole of God, [2316] theos and [2532] kai the faith [4102] pistis of Jesus. [2424] Iesous Entole is the word for commandments in this Scripture. In Exodus 24:12 Exd 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. English Strong's Hebrew (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) And the LORD [03068] Y@hovah said [0559] 'amar unto Moses, [04872] Mosheh Come up [05927] `alah to me into the mount, [02022] har and be there: and I will give [05414] nathan thee tables [03871] luwach of stone, [068] 'eben and a law, [08451] towrah and commandments [04687] mitsvah which I have written; [03789] kathab that thou mayest teach [03384] yarah them. In a moment I will try to have the meaning of 'entole' and 'towrah' or 'nomos' Here is the meaning of 'towrah' More Search Tools!! Lexicon for Strong's Number 08451 Go to Exd 24:12 08451 towrah {to-raw'} or torah {to-raw'} from 03384; TWOT - 910d; n f AV - law 219; 219 1) law, direction, instruction 1a) instruction, direction (human or divine) 1a1) body of prophetic teaching 1a2) instruction in Messianic age 1a3) body of priestly direction or instruction 1a4) body of legal directives 1b) law 1b1) law of the burnt offering 1b2) of special law, codes of law 1c) custom, manner 1d) the Deuteronomic or Mosaic Law Notice it is the entire Torah. All 613 laws. Notice here in Romans how both 'nomos' and 'entole' is used. Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) For [1161] de I [1473] ego was alive [2198] zao without [5565] choris the law [3551] nomos once: [4218] pote but [1161] de when the commandment [1785] entole came, [2064] erchomai sin [266] hamartia revived, [326] anazao and [1161] de I [1473] ego died. [599] apothnesko Anyhow, I hope this helps some. God Bless and be sure to get our your lexicon! This is of much value in understanding the differences too. Look up the numbers. God Bless again, DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus P.S. I sure hope somebody comes along to explain this to Kelly as tonight, I am at a loss for too much conversation. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
04687 mitsvah {mits-vaw'} from 06680; TWOT - 1887b; n f AV - commandments 177, precept 4, commanded 2, law 1, ordinances 1; 181 1) commandment 1a) commandment (of man) 1b) the commandment (of God) 1c) commandment (of code of wisdom Used in Exodus 24:12 and other Scriptures. God Bless, DtB | ||
| Denisegilmore |
:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter. Definition of 'nomos' below: 3551 nomos {nom'-os} from a primary nemo (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); TDNT - 4:1022,646; n m AV - law 197; 197 1) anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command 1a) of any law whatsoever 1a1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God 1a1a) by the observance of which is approved of God 1a2) a precept or injunction 1a3) the rule of action prescribed by reason 1b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents 1c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love 1d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT About Strongs Concordance for Strongs Number 3551 Go to Rom 7:6 English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) But [1161] de now [3570] nuni we are delivered [2673] katargeo from [575] apo the law, [3551] nomos that being dead [599] apothnesko (Synonym) [599] apothnesko wherein [1722] en (with Strongs #) [3739] hos we were held; [2722] katecho that [5620] hoste we [2248] hemas should serve [1398] douleuo in [1722] en newness [2538] kainotes of spirit, [4151] pneuma and [2532] kai not [3756] ou [in] the oldness [3821] palaiotes of the letter. [1121] gramma See number 3551, which is 'nomos.' We are delivered from the law. The Mosaic Law. The Torah laws. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Acts 13:38-41 "Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you." "Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by THE LAW OF MOSES." "Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you: "'Look, you scoffers, wonder and perish, for I am going to do something in your days that you would never believe, even if someone told you.'" God Bless, DtB | ||
| Denisegilmore |
and since I'm here and looking into greek words. I would like to point to number 4151 in the greek lexicon. The word 'pneuma.' Of course in the SDA Church, I was taught soul sleep, with the using of this such word. I would like to point out all the meanings of this word, using the greek lexicon. Please notice that it is the very last using of this word 'pneuma' that means breath. The rest of the meanings are completely different, including that of the soul, when it leaves the body. Recently I had read somebody talk of this and this is a very quick search of the word that I was taught in the SDA Church. This word happens to be used by the Apostle Paul, as living according to the spirit (pneuma), not the letter. Of course there are very many other words in greek regarding spirit but I figured this one is as good as any place to begin. 4151 pneuma {pnyoo'-mah} from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13, Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3, Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47, spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6, (Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385 1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit) 1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth") 1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force 2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated 2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides 2b) the soul 3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting 3a) a life giving spirit 3b) a human soul that has left the body 3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel 3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men 3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ 4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one 4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc. 5) a movement of air (a gentle blast) 5a) of the wind, hence the wind itself 5b) breath of nostrils or mouth God Bless you all, as He is Blessing me greatly, :) DtB | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Here is a Hebrew word meaning almost the identical description: Look at Isaiah 4:4 as one example also. 07307 ruwach {roo'-akh} from 07306; TWOT - 2131a; n f AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378 1) wind, breath, mind, spirit 1a) breath 1b) wind 1b1) of heaven 1b2) quarter (of wind), side 1b3) breath of air 1b4) air, gas 1b5) vain, empty thing 1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation) 1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour 1c2) courage 1c3) temper, anger 1c4) impatience, patience 1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented) 1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse 1c7) prophetic spirit 1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being 1e) spirit (as seat of emotion) 1e1) desire 1e2) sorrow, trouble 1f) spirit 1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts 1f2) rarely of the will 1f3) as seat especially of moral character 1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy 1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning 1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power 1g4) as endowing men with various gifts 1g5) as energy of life 1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory 1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force So, 'Pneuma' in greek and 'Ruwach' in Hebrew are both with almost same meanings. Notice that it is not just our breath in either case. If you will get into this link, you can do your own searches too. Believe me, it really helps. Here is the website address as I couldn't or didn't know how to put a link on here. www.blueletterbible.org Have fun and God Bless your searching! DtB | ||
| Valm |
Good morning all! Wow was I tired last night. I couldn't even think of thinking. Refreshed this morning I found what I was looking for and will add it to Denise's excellent contribution above. This is from Clay Peck's NEW COVENANT CHRISTIANS. And it is most helpful to me in explaining what our New Testement Fathers (John in particular) are refering to when they speak of LAW and Commandments: A new law, a new motive The new law of the new covenant is really as old as God himself, for it is the expression of his character. James calls it the "royal law" (James 2:8). Here it is, in the words of Jesus: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." (John 13:34) Throughout the Old Testament the reason for obedience is because the Law says so, or because of God delivered his people from Egypt. In the New Testament the reason for obedience is never the law, but Christ. "Love, just as Christ loved us..." (Ephesians 5:2) "Forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32) "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ... [who] humbled himself..." (Philippians 2:5-8) "The body is not meant for sexual immorality... your bodies are members of Christ... a temple of the Holy Spirit... you were bought with a price..." (1 Corinthians 6:13-20) The law is love and the motive for obedience is love: love for Christ. "The love of Christ compels us..." 2 Corinthians 5:14 Let me give you a few more examples of the new covenant law: "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:8-10) The moral principles of the old covenant law remain, but they are far exceeded by the new covenant law of love, which is written on the hearts and minds of believers and prompted by the Spirit rather than the letter. "Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) "You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Galatians 5:13-14) What is the new covenant commandment? Love others like Christ loved you. In Revelation, God's faithful people are described as those who obey his commandments. "Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring-- those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus." (Revelation 12:17) Some have used this verse to say that all true followers of God in the end times will worship on the seventh day Sabbath because of the fourth commandment. There is nothing wrong with worshipping on the Sabbath as long as you are not making it a salvation issue or placing demands on others. But do not use this verse to say something it is not saying! The "testimony of Jesus" is the Gospel (see John 8:18, 1 John 5:9-12, Revelation 1:2, etc.). And what are "God's commandments?" Does this text say that the final generation goes back under the old covenant in order to find acceptance with God? NO! If you want to know what John means by "commandments of God" you need to let John tell you! It is a phrase that he uses often in his letters; a phrase that he also defines. "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3) Those who love God will obey his commands. And what are his commands? "And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us." (1 John 3:23-24) "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love." (2 John 6) So Revelation 12:17 is saying that God's remnant or true people in every age will be those who accept Jesus as Savior and live for him as Lord - they hold to the Gospel ("the testimony of Jesus") and are obedient, loving disciples (obey God's commandments). John never uses the word "commands" or "commandments" (Greek entole) to refer to the Ten Commandments or the Law. Whenever John referred to the Old Covenant Law he used the Greek word for law - nomos. For example: "For the law [nomos] was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17) I have used that verse as an illustration of the word John used to reference the old covenant. But think about what the last part of that verse is saying. Please recognize that a commitment to Jesus Christ is a commitment to grace and Truth. Some of what you are reading in this study may be different from what you have always thought or believed. If so, I hope you are being provoked to study God's Word with greater depth and intensity than ever before. Stay committed to truth. Never shut your mind to the truth of God's word in favor of some cherished, comfortable tradition. Hang on to truth as God reveals it to you no matter where it leads you. Jesus said, if you know the truth - it will set you free! "And if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8:36) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Entole and it's meaning: for Strong's Number 1785 Go to Rev 14:12 1785 entole {en-tol-ay'} from 1781; TDNT - 2:545,234; n f AV - commandment 69, precept 2; 71 1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction 1a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office 2) a commandment 2a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done 2a1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood 2a2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition | ||
| Denisegilmore |
An example of how ENTOLE is used: 2Jo 1:4 "I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a COMMANDMENT from the Father." English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) I rejoiced [5463] chairo greatly [3029] lian that [3754] hoti I found [2147] heurisko of [1537] ek thy [4675] sou children [5043] teknon walking [4043] peripateo in [1722] en truth, [225] aletheia as [2531] kathos we have received [2983] lambano a commandment [1785] ENTOLE from [3844] para the Father. [3962] pater 2Jo 1:5 "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new COMMANDMENT unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, THAT WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER." 2Jo 1:6 "And this is love, that we walk after his COMMANDMENTS. This is the COMMANDMENT, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it." 2Jo 1:7 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." 2Jo 1:8 "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." 2Jo 1:9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, hath not God. He that abideth in the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, he hath both the Father and the Son." 2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: 2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
King James Version (KJV) Romans - Chapter 13 Printer Friendly Version: Verse Range: to Rom 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: THEREFORE LOVE [is] THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW." | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Use of NOMOS in Romans 13:8 Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) Owe [3784] opheilo no man [3367] medeis any thing, [3367] medeis but [1508] ei me to love [25] agapao one another: [240] allelon for [1063] gar he that loveth [25] agapao another [2087] heteros hath fulfilled [4137] pleroo the law. [3551] NOMOS | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Use of ENTOLE in Romans 13:9 Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) For [1063] gar this, Thou shalt [3431] moicheuo not [3756] ou commit adultery, [3431] moicheuo Thou shalt [5407] phoneuo not [3756] ou kill, [5407] phoneuo Thou shalt [2813] klepto not [3756] ou steal, [2813] klepto Thou shalt [5576] pseudomartureo not [3756] ou bear false witness, [5576] pseudomartureo Thou shalt [1937] epithumeo not [3756] ou covet; [1937] epithumeo and [2532] kai if [there be] any [1536] ei tis other [2087] heteros COMMANDMENT, [1785] ENTOLE it is briefly comprehended [346] anakephalaiomai in [1722] en this [5129] touto saying, [3056] logos namely, [1722] en Thou shalt love [25] agapao thy [4675] sou neighbour [4139] plesion as [5613] hos thyself. [1438] heautou Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law | ||
| Denisegilmore |
And one more, from Valerie's post regarding John 13:34-- Jhn 13:34 "A new COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also LOVE ONE ANOTHER." English Strong's Greek (Root form) Tense (Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click) A new [2537] kainos COMMANDMENT [1785] ENTOLE I give [1325] didomi unto you, [5213] humin That [2443] hina ye love [25] agapao one another; [240] allelon as [2531] kathos I have loved [25] agapao you, [5209] humas that [2443] hina ye [5210] humeis also [2532] kai love [25] agapao one another. [240] allelon Jhn 13:35 "By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." God Bless everyone, DtB | ||
| Kelly |
Good Morning. First, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Secondly,it does appear that you are correct in your interpretation of these verses. I can not find any bases on which I could honestly oppose your position. The words in these text that I had thought to be the same are obviously different. I understand what you guys are saying about "the law", "the covenants", "the new", "the old". I see that in 1 John that there is no question as to what commands that he is referring to. I just never realized that they were written down, right there, just a few verses away. I understand it, I'm just not sure that I can accept it. Part of me agrees that, "yes, these are different" and the other part says "how much difference can there really be between law and commandment in the original language. I see that they are based on different words but they are still very much the same" The one point that sways me to believe what you are saying is: John left no question to what commandments he was referring to, it's right there in black and white. I don't have any reference material (except E.W.). What kind of concordance are you using to find all this in the original language? This is probably a stupid question. What is a lexicon? As I don't know what kind of concordance or reference material to get can you offer some suggestions? |
