| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
^^James is all about what the believer does (works) and nothing about what Jesus Christ has done for undeserving sinners who trust in Him.^^ If that were so, then the book would not have needed to have been written, much less included in the New Testament. *According to the best evidence, the book was written by the brother of Jesus who was hardly a legalist. *The author was the leader of the Jerusalem council (Acts 15) that officially declared that redeemed Gentiles did not have to keep the Law of Moses. This in itself was a revoltionary action on the part of the early church in Jerusalem, considering that this tiny group -- probably only a few thousand at most -- made up almost exclusively of circumcised, Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, ham-shunning Jews trying to comprehend what the cross meant in their everyday lives. *The epistle was written, not to Gentiles, but to "hard" Jewish Christians, that is, to Jews who had just emerged out of one of the most legalistic systems the world has ever known into the light of the gospel. James 1:1 says it was written "to the twelve tribes scattered among the nations." These dear sheep had to be led gently out of their legalistic thought patterns. *The overriding characteristic of James is its "emphasis on vital Christianity, characerized by good deeds and a faith that works (genuine faith must and will be accompanied by a consistent life-style)" (NIV Introduction to James). *Virtually all Bible scholars today recognize that James speaks of "head faith" (in James 2) "whereas Paul speaks exclusively "heart faith" in all his writings. *Paul's general pattern in writing letters was to do the theological underpinning first: You are saints because you have been saved and made righteous (sinless) by the completed, historical, alien righteousness of Christ on the cross. Then he goes on with exhortations to good behavior that inevitably results from such righteousness. In this respect Paul is much more focused doing good and avoiding evil than is James. Therefore James and Paul are in perfect accord. Blessings to all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
^^Max, Can you show me a single biblical text that specifically speaks of Jesus living in our hearts?^^ Certainly, here's one I posted that you must have missed. NIV Romans 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if THE SPIRIT OF GOD LIVES IN YOU. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if CHRIST IS IN YOU, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if THE SPIRIT of him who raised Jesus from the dead IS LIVING IN YOU, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through HIS SPIRIT, who LIVES IN YOU. | ||
| Patti |
If that were so, then the book would not have needed to have been written, much less included in the New Testament. True. In fact, Luther wanted to exclude it from the Canon in his translation of the German Bible because of its lack of Gospel. As it was, he placed it at the end, along with Hebrews and Revelation, which he also wished to exclude: Hebrews because if its uncertain authenticity and Revelation because of its high apocalyptic. *According to the best evidence, the book was written by the brother of Jesus who was hardly a legalist. Actually, the brothers of Jesus did not accept Him at all while He was on the earth. But, that really doesn't matter. The words of the book speak for themselves. There is no Gospel in James. | ||
| Max |
^^We must be careful not to confound the work of Jesus Christ with the work of the Holy Spirit as our friends the SDAs and the Catholics do. Jesus' work is finished, complete, perfected forever, and extrinsic to humanity. He sits, a position of rest and finality, at the right hand of the Father. This is where the SDAs miss the boat so badly regarding the investigative judgment. They claim that Christ's work is not finished. As do those who think that the indwelling work of Christ is part of salvation.^^ This work expressses itself in the lives of believers. Nor has it anything whatsoever to do with the SDA investigative judgment. I don't care what *OFTAs claim. It is Christ's finished work working in us that the world sees. (*OFTAs = Our Friends The Adventists.) The indwelling work of Christ in the Holy Spirit living in us is a result of salvation, not a part. Blessings, MC | ||
| Max |
^^True. In fact, Luther wanted to exclude it from the Canon in his translation of the German Bible because of its lack of Gospel. As it was, he placed it at the end, along with Hebrews and Revelation, which he also wished to exclude: Hebrews because if its uncertain authenticity and Revelation because of its high apocalyptic.^^ Luther also spoke and wrote in obscene language. Luther is not Scripture. Let's not make him into another EGW. | ||
| Max |
^^The words of the book speak for themselves. There is no Gospel in James.^^ I'm laughing. You cannot support that statement with with Scripture. It's just flat wrong, Patti. | ||
| Max |
^^Even the gifts of the Spirit are about the Gospel, telling others of Jesus--not about changed lives.^^ Transformed lives ARE the testimony of Jesus, the gospel lived out in human form, the spirit of all true prophecy. | ||
| Patti |
The indwelling work of Christ in the Holy Spirit living in us is a result of salvation, not a part. If you really believe this, then why do you have problems with my commitment to presenting the Gospel and the Gospel only? Everytime I make a statement of Gospel, you quickly subvert it with a message of character "regeneration." If the indwelling Holy Spirit is only a result of salvation, why spend time preaching anything other than the very thing that brings us salvation and the resulting gift of the Spirit? Another thing you fail to address. The main indication and function of the indwelling Holy Spirit in Scripture was the testimony of Jesus, not transformed characters. Why, then, continue to preach a Gospel of character regeneration? It is simply not New Testament theology. Certainly there are calls for shunning sin with all our might, but, as you pointed out, this is not the Gospel message, and has no bearing on our salvation. Salvation does not come of law, any law. And we remain permeated with sin until the consummation, when we will be changed in a twinkling of an eye. The Gospel is that God justifies the ungodly. Reconciles sinful humans to Himself for the sake of the vicarious life and death of Jesus Christ. Period. | ||
| Max |
^^The indwelling work of Christ in the Holy Spirit living in us is a result of salvation, not a part. If you really believe this, then why do you have problems with my commitment to presenting the Gospel and the Gospel only?^^ I have no problem with you, Patti. I deal with the issues. | ||
| Max |
^^Everytime I make a statement of Gospel, you quickly subvert it with a message of character "regeneration."^^ That may be your perception, but it is not the truth. | ||
| Max |
??e I make a statement of Gospel, you quickly subvert it with a message of character "regeneration."^^ Transformed lives do not subvert the gospel, Patti. They reveal it in living flesh form, however imperfect they may be. All true believers are clothed in the robe of Christ's righteousness as they go about their work of obeying Christ's Commandment: "Thou shalt agape." | ||
| Max |
^^If the indwelling Holy Spirit is only a result of salvation, why spend time preaching anything other than the very thing that brings us salvation and the resulting gift of the Spirit?^^ Adolph Hitler went to his doom firmly convinced that he was preaching Christianity, that he was cleansing a Christian nation -- Germany -- of the Jewish vermin. That was his way of "preaching ... the very thing that brings us salvation and the resulting gift of the Spirit." If his life had been transformed by the finished work of Christ on the cross in the Person of the Holy Spirit living within him, he may never have needed to have spoken a word, but his lived-out salvation would have done good in the world rather than unimaginable, unprecedented evil. "Not everyone that sayeth unto me [Christ], Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOETH the will of the father." Such doing is the ONLY result of salvation worth mentioning, for it involves our whole lives, speaking and writing included. | ||
| Max |
^^The main indication and function of the indwelling Holy Spirit in Scripture was the testimony of Jesus, not transformed characters.^^ The "testimony of Jesus" = "transformed lives" = "the spirit of prophecy" in verity. | ||
| Max |
^^Why, then, continue to preach a Gospel of character regeneration?^^ There is no gospel of character regeneration. There is only the gospel that produces it. | ||
| Max |
^^Salvation does not come of law, any law,^^ but lawfullness comes of salvation. | ||
| Max |
^^And we remain permeated with sin until the consummation, when we will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.^^ And yet we will still be redeemed sinners wearing Christ's spotless robe! Isn't that amazing? | ||
| Max |
^^The Gospel is that God justifies the ungodly.^^ And transforms. | ||
| Max |
^^The Gospel is that God ... reconciles sinful humans to Himself for the sake of the vicarious life and death of Jesus Christ. Period.^^ And how do we know this to be so? We see it in the lives of those who are being transformed from glory to glory! | ||
| Patti |
The "testimony of Jesus" = "transformed lives" = "the spirit of prophecy" in verity. Hardly. The Testimony of Jesus is the witness we bear to His righteous life, His vicarious death, His resurrection from the dead. It borders on blasphemy if one should claim that the testimony of Jesus is our own filthy rags righteusness. There is no gospel of character regeneration. There is only the gospel that produces it. And all of our character "regeneration" is nothing more than filthy rags. Why waste a single moment on extolling our filthy rags righteousness? Why not spend every moment in humble awe at the majesty and perfection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? ^^Salvation does not come of law, any law,^^ but lawfullness comes of salvation. By faith. By faith alone. The only lawfulness we will ever know on this earth is the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. We cannot keep the law--ANY law. Remember if we fall short on one point of the law (the WHOLE law, not just the big ten) we are guilty of breaking them all. We, therefore, are always dependent upon the vicarious life, the perfectly fulfilled law of God, of Jesus Christ. This is our only righteousness. It is perfect, it lacks in nothing; it reconciles us to God, and it guarantees our acquittal in the judgment. There are still really only two choices: Either we are saved by the imputation of the perfect fulfillment of the law by Jesus Christ, or at least partially upon the works of our own hands. Let me reiterate: We stand on the merits of Christ alone or, at least partially, on our own. As you pointed out, the reformers coined the phrase, "Salvation by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone," to appease the Catholics. But the Gospel that Jesus Himself gives us and the one that Paul expounds upon is not a wishy-washy, politically correct half-gospel that refuses to exclude any works of man. It is a strong powerful message of salvation without works. And whoever preaches it will inevitably be accused of antinomianism by those who do not realize what it means to trust wholly in the saving grace of God in Jesus Christ. "And the disciples said to Him, "What shall we do to do the works of God?" And Jesus answered them, saying, "The work of God is this: To believe on the One Whom He has sent." We can perform no higher or grander act of obedience than to honor God in our trust that He will keep His promises and save those who believe on His Son. Lord, I believe. Help Thou mine unbelief. | ||
| Max |
^^ The Testimony of Jesus is the witness we bear to His righteous life, His vicarious death, His resurrection from the dead.^^ How true -- and we do so with our whole lives, words and deeds! |
