| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
DO YOU BELIEVE THIS PROPHECY FROM YOUR PROPHET? As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message [such as the Former Adventist Fellowship], but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth [Sunday-keeping = mark of the beast], abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They [FORMER ADVENTISTS] become the MOST BITTER ENEMIES of their former brethren. When Sabbathkeepers are brought before the courts to answer for their faith, these APOSTATES are the most efficient AGENTS OF SATAN to misrepresent and accuse them, and by FALSE REPORTS and INSINUATIONS to STIR UP THE RULERS against them. Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, page 608, paragraph 2, Chapter Title: The Final Warning | ||
| Cindy |
Max...Thank-you for pulling that out! :-)) You can tell it's been ages since I read that book! I knew there was a quote somewhere but, wow!! I'm even amazed it was in there. I thought it was just in some "testimony"! :-)) Interestingly, I've heard quite a few of the more "liberal-minded" Adventists say that they don't bother with the "testimonies" or other books of EGW, but just so enjoy "The Conflict of the Ages" series (this being "Patriarchs and Prophets", "Prophets and Kings", "The Desire of Ages", "The Acts of the Apostles", and "The Great Controversy".) And to think this NONSENCE is in on of those books... I guess I've selectively forgot all that persecution-time-of-trouble garbage since I have found my ASSURANCE more and more focused on JESUS!! CHRIST and the message of HIS PERFECT AND FINISHED WORK FOR ME in which I CAN SAFELY REST "365/24/7"!... Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
You think that last one was bad, Cindy! How about this one? ^^The heavenly sentinels, faithful to their trust, continue their watch. Though a general decree [from the U.S. government] has fixed the time when [FOURTH] COMMENDMENT- KEEPERS MAY BE PUT TO DEATH, their ENEMIES [THE BITTEREST ONES BEING FORMER ADVENTISTS] will in some cases anticipate the decree, and, before the time specified, will endeavor to TAKE THEIR LVIES. But none can pass the mighty guardians stationed about every faithful soul. Some are assailed in their flight from the cities and villages; but the swords raised against them [by bitter former Adventists] break and fall as powerless as a straw. Others are defended [against bitter former Adventists] by angels in the form of men of war.^^ [A case of non-bitter ANGELS IN THE FORM OF ADVENTISTS killing bitter former Adventists?] Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy [1888 edition], page 631, paragraph 1, Chapter Title: The Time of Trouble | ||
| Valm |
I remember those GC quotes as a child. I remember them being discussed and the horror I felt that IF I fell away from the truth that I would actually come to the point of hunting for my own family to kill them. These quotes are a reminder to me that I must be very sensitive to my family due to the deep rooted persecution complex they have. Any thing I say could be taken as the beginning of these prophecies. Sometimes the hope of reaching out to them seems so far removed from possibility. Valerie | ||
| Max |
God is Sovereign, Valerie! SOVEREIGN! Let Him determine your words and actions vis a vis your family! Please don't burden yourself with worry over this issue. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." -MC | ||
| Valm |
The logical side of me is in complete agreement; I wished the other parts of me would catch on! I tenaciously hang on to this idea that I have control in these matters. Valerie | ||
| Jtree |
Acts 16:30 "He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved(or become a Christian)?" (DO YOU KNOW AN UNSAVED CHRISTIAN?) The OFTA answered"So we have clearly outlined the steps that we need to take in order to become a Christian: to believe in God, to repent of and to confess our sins, to be baptized, and to obey all the commandments of the Lord" (New Life Voice of Prophecy Guide #12). "Christ says to every man in this world what He said to the rich young ruler: ëIf thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandmentsí Ö In other words, the standards for admission into heaven is a character built according to the ten specifications, or commandments, of Godís law" (Charles Everson, Saved by Grace, Review and Herald Publishing, pp. 45,46). *Contrary to what the Apostles said in Acts 16:31. They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." NOTICE the DIFFERENCE IN THE REQUIREMENTS? Joshua of the ROCK! | ||
| Max |
Joshua of the Rock! You're on a roll! ^^ëIf thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandmentsí Ö In other words, the standards for admission into heaven is a character built according to the ten specifications, or commandments, of Godís law" (Charles Everson, Saved by Grace, Review and Herald Publishing, pp. 45,46).^^ Why did this dear OFTA brother Charles Everson OMIT the very POINT of the text he quoted? Look where he stopped: ^^ëIf thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandmentsí Ö The point: The man HAD BEEN KEEPING the commandments from his youth up! And still he wasn't saved! He needed something more -- the purest grace of God. It came to him in a test: If you have received grace, young man, Jesus tells him, then prove it by passing Christ's test of grace recipience: Giving your all to Me: 1. GO, 2. SELL all that you have, 3. GIVE the proceeds to the poor, and then 4. COME and 5. FOLLOW Me. He failed the faith-response that INEVITABLY follows God's pure grace. Poor Charles Everson! He wrote a book titled "Saved by Grace," and still -- preceisely like the rich young ruler -- he remains "Clueless in Capernaum." MC | ||
| Violet |
In refference to GC quote by Max: FAFers realize that one day is not any different from another. That we are not to judge others for holding one day in higher regard than another. We know that it does not make any differance in our salvation. In other words we have nothing to gain or loose by observing a day. When you have nothing at stake you don't put value on it. On the other hand when something very valuable (salvation) depends on an act (sabbathkeeping) the focus can be overpowering. I do not understand why they would think we would rise up against them when sabbathkeeping doesn't matter to us. But I could see OFTA rising up against anyone who would threaten their Sabbath. Any comments? | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Violet, The OFTAs have already risen up against "Sunday keepers." Remember? We supposedly represent Babylon, mark of the beast, reprobates, apostates, heretics, antichrists et-cetera et-cetera. Seems, at least from my experiences, that to the OFTAs, I represent these things. And I don't even go to Church. But by virtue of NOT attending the SDA Church, I'm seen as the one who has fallen. Course I don't mind studying with them in their homes on their Sabbath or doing the Vesper thing on Saturday Eves. But because I won't walk into the SDA Church building on Sabbath, they are praying very often that I come to the "truth." God Bless, DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus | ||
| Violet |
I spent some time thinking about the motive Ellen White had for writing that passage. If you have fear built up in OFTA hearts that anyone leaving the orginization is going to persicute you in the end then it places a wedge and decreases the contact between the Adventist and the grace believer. This is a very crafty way to keep the news of grace from spreading. The devil was very crafty in setting down the ground work for keeping OFTA seperate and ignorant. I am amazed at how ignorant I was, and still am, about religion after spending years in Bible study. I feel like I have wasted so many years. The problem I had was confining my studies to the products of the ABC. | ||
| Valm |
Violet I had never thought of this as being a ploy to keep Adventists from fellowshipping with former Adventists. But it makes sense. Who would want to fellowship with someone that you have to keep "looking over you shoulder" at to know what might be coming your way. With reguards to wasted time: What is the matter of the few short years we have "wasted" in Adventism compared to the eternity God has for us? I say this because I have the same feeling you do at times. There is so much that I did not even know existed due to the sheltered life I had. I plan on spending eternity in intensified learning of all the wonderful marvels I never knew about. Perhaps we can take a class or two together....... | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello again Violet, You said in part: >>On the other hand when something very valuable (salvation) depends on an act (sabbathkeeping) the focus can be overpowering. << This is the reason I believe that focusing on the Sabbath is a salvific issue. If we are not focused on Jesus Christ for our Salvation, then we do NOT have the truth. Jesus Christ is who the Gospel is about. The gospel according to stout sda's is the sabbath, health reform, 10 commandments and such. Of course Not all SDAs but most all that I know. There are the evangelical SDA's who are focusing on Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, Resurrected thus Giving us complete atonement and eternal life. Grace of God. Grace= unmerited favor (we didn't and cannot earn this). It is a GIFT. Hoping this is making some sense as i'm really really sleepy right now..so off to be i go. Hi Valerie! :) God Bless, DtB | ||
| Violet |
My husband has been VP of two financial institution and his biggest complaint is what he calls "clerical" mentality. The employees finds one way of doing it, like by the policy manual and refuses to look beyond that one task to the big picture. This is also a frustration with OFTA they have their policy manual (the little red books) and refuse to see the big picture (accept one another in love). I use to live in constant fear of rejection because I may be "caught" doing something unadventist. Like mowing my elderly mother in laws yard on Sabbath ect. This amounts to nothing more than a controling abusive relationship all tied to your eternal salvation. No wonder these people are so paranoid about who they allow into their membership and why they "test" them beforehand to make sure they are willing to subject themselves to the "rules". Sorry just needed to vent. Now I must go on and find a church family to love me just as I am. :):):) Violet | ||
| Valm |
Violet, Venting is good. It is a very big part of healing. I have in my own life used the Kubler-Ross stages of grief as the framework of coming out of Adventism as well as materials from recovery programs. Coming out of Adventism is SO similar to both the grieving process and recovery. While venting, I must remind myself that the people who have hurt me have done so because of their own addiction to a spiritually abusive system. It helps. These people are suffering too in their own rights. That has helped me to see them as victims right along side of me. Best wishes in finding a church family. I have found that just like regular families, they fall short of God's wishes for us. But there is alot of learning and growing that will occur. Valerie | ||
| Max |
Hi Violet, I agree with both you and Valerie. Adventism is a society of dysfunctional family traps. And one must be on guard, when leaving it, not to land into another dysfunctional family trap. Thank God for freedom! Freedom in Christ in which alone one can breathe again! MC | ||
| Violet |
Thanks Max, My husband and I are being very careful as to what our next move is, kinda waiting on the Lord for guidance. The last thing I want is to fall into another mind controling (cult) orginization. Oh, and by the way I love to kid around so don't take me too serious all the time either. A person can normally tell if I don't like them, I don't tease them... although at times that is hard to do over da net. | ||
| Max |
Violet, As Twisse has so rightly pointed out, there are many heretical dysfunctional traps to stay out of besides Adventism: Anything that claims to be "of God," but results in schism from the body of Christ is heresy. Leaving Adventism can be like leaving a dysfunctional relationship only to find one's self involved in another one. Like people who have three, four, five, six . . . . dysfunctional relationships. I know a woman whose mother had been married ten times. If one is ever going to heal, one must at some point stop and wonder if the dysfunction was totally all in the other person! Reminds me of something I once heard from one of "the boundary twins." They're Christian psychiatrists. Can't think of their names right now, but one is Dr. Cloud. He said in his practice he had a woman who had been married eight times. She told him: "I married eight different dysfunctional men." He told her: "No, you married the same dysfunctional man eight different times." The point: Dysfunction is never a one-way street. Dr. Bradshaw likes the dysfunctional family to a mobile. Once you set one hanging piece in motion, all the others start swinging too in order to compensate. If it is true, then, that Adventism is a collection of dysfunctional families (and singles) top to bottom, front to back, and side to side, then one should be aware of one's own dysfunction when one leaves. It is possible to leave a dysfunctional family situation only to drag one's own dysfunction along. When one becomes involved in a new family situation, one must take care to sort out what's going on and take appropriate action if needed. One solution, in my opinion, is not to commit one's self to quickly to the new non-Adventist congregation. Visit many congregations, if possible, before settling down to just one. In other words, don't be deceived into another dysfunctional-family church situation. Rather, allow the Holy Spirit to help you to work on your own dysfunction and heal you. Well, enough sermonizing for tonight. Blessings, MC | ||
| Violet |
Max, we saw this all too well in the "pastor" we had. He was quite the "you are for me or against me, but if you are against me you are against God." Bless his heart he could not do anything in moderation. He seems so dedicated to working in the church, so much that he sold his computer business to become this pastor. On the surface it all looked great. But, and you knew there would be a but, he really had an adictive personality. His background included smoking and drugs as a teenager, then when he joined the SDA he went from that to being either at his business or the church all the time. Now he is just at the church or working on something for the church, and expecting others to do the same. To the detriment of his family. I have seen the effects it has taken on his 12 year old daughter, very sad. I see how jumping from one addiction to another is not really recovery, even if it is the "Lord's work". I think we may have been and are being burned bad enough that it will be a very slow process finding a church family. |
