| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
WHY ARE SDAs UNDER SUSPICION IN GERMANY TODAY? In his review of the video documentary "Then They Came For Me: Intolerance in Modern Germany, Louie Volpe writes, ^^The "bad" religions are allowed to practice but are considered "dangerous" to their members. The Church of Scientology, Jehovah Witness, Muslims, and 7th Day Adventists are some of those mentioned as "bad" religions.^^ Louie Volpe, ěRemembering the Holocaustî, JEWISH POST OF NY, © Copyright July 1996 by JPNY http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0205/jpj0205a.ht m One wonders if the REASON why SDAs are now on the current ěhit listî in Germany after the fall of the Iron Curtain is that the Seventh-day Adventist church in Nazi Germany DID colaborate with Hitler and now they are still suspect along with the neo-Nazi movement, the skinheads, etc. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
HITLER VOWS PROTECTION TO ADVENTISTS AND OTHER CHRISTIANS "The national government ... will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality." --Adolph Hitler, The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872. | ||
| Max |
HITLER PLEDGES TO ěBURN OUT THE POISON OF ... LIBERAL EXCESSî THAT BEDEVILS ADVENTISTS AND OTHER CHRISTIANS "Today Christians ... stand at the head of Germany ... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity ... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press -- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years." --Adolph Hitler, The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872. | ||
| Max |
GERMAN SDA CHURCH OPENLY SUPPORTED NAZI PARTY, SAY HISTORIANS In Germany during the period of Hitler's domination, the avoidance of confrontation may have been a factor in the development of the church's OPEN SUPPORT FOR THE NAZI PARTY. --Malcolm Bull and Keith Lockhart, SEEKING A SANCTUARY: Seventh-day Adventism and the American Dream (San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1989), p.148. Addendum: Evidentiary support for this startling remark, one that the church, sans being confronted with the evidence, will most assuredly deny comes from: 1. Jack M. Patt, "Living in a Time of Trouble: German Adventists under Nazi Rule," SPECTRUM 8:3 (1997): 2-10. 2. Erwin Sicher, "Seventh-day Adventist Publications and the Nazi Temptation," SPECTRUM 8:3 (1977): 11-24. | ||
| Max |
NAZI PROPAGANDA "SPIRITUAL" All propaganda has to be popular and has to adapt its SPIRITUAL level to the perception of the least intelligent of those towards whom it intends to direct itself. --Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (My Struggle) [1933], vol. I, ch. 2. | ||
| Max |
HERE ARE SOME MEMORABLE QUOTES YOUR FRIENDS THE ADVENTISTS OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED IN NAZI GERMANY Shoot first and inquire afterwards, and if you make mistakes, I will protect you. --Hermann Goering, Directive (drafted by Adolf Eichmann) to Reinhard Heydrich [July 31, 1941] --------------------------------------------------------------- To sum it all up, I must say I regret nothing. --Adolf Eichmann [1906-1962], while awaiting trial in Israel --------------------------------------------------------------- Submit to me as soon as possible a draft showing ... measures already taken for the execution of the intended final solution of the Jewish question. --Hermann Goering, Directed (drafted by Adolf Eichmann) to Reinhard Heydrich [July 31, 1941] | ||
| Max |
JUDGMENT OF THE JEWS ON THE QUALITY OF "CHRISTIAN" NAZISM OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED BY SDA CHURCH It was as though in those last minutes he [Adolf Eichmann] was summing up the lessons that this long course in human wickedness had taught us -- the lesson of the fearsome, word-and-thought-defying BANALITY OF EVIL. --Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil [1963], ch. 15 --------------------------------------------------------------- | ||
| Allenette |
Hi Max: how familiar are you with the SDA Reform Movement??? A few years ago I did a side by side comparison with "regular" Adventism beliefs and found that their primary difference were that they were complete pacifists during WW2 and were based in Germany. In Nashville, there is a church with that sign on it, and my dear sweet SDA pastor's widow mom, told me that her pastor told the congregation to "STAY AWAY".....gggg and like good sheep, they listen to their shepherd ;-) | ||
| Max |
Allenette, How familiar am I with the SDA Reform movement? 1. There is a professor at Walla Walla Collage -- oops, I mean, Walla Walla College. Can't remember his name now, but he's a native German. Anyway, he's a Ph.D. historian and has done considerable work on SDAs in Nazi Germany. I heard one of his talks and was absolutely astounded at what I heard. It's unbelievable, yet this is one documented dude. How I wish I had hung on to what he's written. Alas.... (I think he's in trouble with "the brethren" for knowing too much. Nice guy, though, really nice. More's the pity -- he seems to be a "lifer.") But, yes, according to this historian, the RSDA church is what's left of the anti-Hitler, anti-Nazi SDA church in Nazi Germany. They split from the main body exactly over Hitler-Nazi issues. I wouldn't say they were entirely pacifist. I would say, rather, that they disapproved of killing other Christians -- including SDA medics, BTW -- in war. But the unpardonable sin was their disobedience to the GC in America. Even after the war the GC sided with the pro-Nazi faction of the SDA church there. And that's why they formed their own organization -- because the GC refused to recognize them and branded them heretical for going against GC directives to support the Nazi party. (Bennies were to be had, you see. And there were assets -- HOSPITALS EVEN! -- to protect. I could go on and on, but ..... 2. There is an little old peeling-white church with a Reformed Seventh-day Adventist Church sign out front. And I'm going to go. Yep. I'm going to go some Sabbath and try to amass more documentation on this subject. 3. They republished a book of mine -- HE MADE PLANET EARTH -- after it went out of print at Pacific Press. I'm watching the planet get smaller.... Ggggg! MC Ps. Does ggggg mean "giggling" or "gagging"? | ||
| Max |
The Reformed SDA church I'm talking about is in Redlands, Calfornia, right beside I-10 a few blocks from the main business district there. I'm gonna go! This next Sabbath. I swear, er, PLEDGE! | ||
| Eshubert (Eshubert) |
Here are two links that I can recommend: Adventists in Nazi Germany Does your church follow these principles? | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Actually Eshubert, this is a FORMER Sda forum. None of us here are interested in returning to the church. Nor do any of us here view it as being the "true church" or see it as having a hold on any "special light". | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Lydell: You could be right. Certainly the material on these web pages is off the wall and not what most people here will consider. I am not sure we know that Eschubert is saying: ěYes, there are some Adventists who connect themselves with Nazism and that is a bad thing.î Or ěYes, there are some Adventists who connect themselves with Nazism and look how wonderful that is.î Or ěThis is bad and this evidence proves that Adventism leads to bad things.î Or ěThis is bad, but ëpureí Adventism is still the ëtruthí for Christians.î What do you say, Eschubert? | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Jerry - if you go to one of the links and then at the bottom go to the Master SDA Menu you'll see that Eugene Shubert does seminars and appears to be a very traditional SDA. Just fyi! Love and prayers to all! Carol | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
OK, I've changed my mind, check out some of the links & read some of Eugene's comments on a variety of subjects and then decide for yourself if Eugene is a "traditional" SDA or what, I cannot figure him out. Feel free to let us know Eugene, but as Lydell said, this is a site for former SDAs who have found unbelievable freedom in Jesus, and want to focus on Him and Him alone! Love and prayers to all, Carol | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Again, Mr. Shubert can correct me if I am wrong about his attitude towards the various factions in the SDA church. The way I read his comments, he seems rather unimpressed with ěEvangelical Adventism.î I must say that I agree with the surface meaning of that statement. However, we come at it from two different perspectives. He, in one place, assigns the arguments of the more liberal factions the attribute of ěhubbub,î as in noisome gibberish. On the other hand, I see many elements of duality in his arguments. Several times, he asserts opposition to a concept, then argues in a convoluted manner, and arrives at a conclusion, which bears a striking resemblance to the concept he first denied. I am sure he would disagree with my assessment. However, that remains my impression. | ||
| Bmorgan (Bmorgan) |
Jerry, I have not read Shubert's arguments however, your last post describes a true Seventh day Adventist. They argue against what they are saying. Convolution, dissonance, ocnfusion...They don't understand the very subjects they are defending or explaining BUT to them it is the TRUTH, and they are "holding on" so they will not be deceived. Sad, sad, sad... May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with us | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
According to cursory research on the Internet, Mr. Shubert, you have an interesting reputation among certain Adventists. If you (eshubert) are, indeed, Eugene Shubert, as seems likely at least as it relates to the references on the web site in the links you provided, I would be interested to hear your reasons for posting here. I suggest many here are a little suspicious of your motives, but are willing to read your explanation. Thus, I pose these questions: Why are you posting here? Do you know the theology promoted here? Do you have an agenda, which includes passively or actively influencing people here to unite or reunite with the SDA church in some way? How do you view your relationship to the Seventh-day Adventist Church? I could only find one post under this user ID on this board. If you plan to regularly post here, some of the types of material and viewpoints connected to the web links you provided will not likely be well received here. If, rather than promoting that type of dogma, you wish simply to find out what we are about and what we believe, the people here will probably be glad to inform you about their beliefs and experiences. If, instead, you are looking for ělost souls to bring back,î you may have come to the wrong place. We await your response, if any. Jerry |
