| Author | Message | ||
| Jtree |
Chapter 16, of The Life of Ellen White by D.M. Canright "She had no such gift". What is your take on this claim? Joshua of the Rock! | ||
| Max |
Joshua of the Rock! Love that name! My take is that Ellen G. White actually did have a spiritual gift but that she misused and abused it: She did this by convincing people who began with the Spirit to then try to attain their goal "by human effort." Galatians 3:4. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Joshua of the Rock, My take would be that she did have some ability to know these things. However, whether or not this ability or gift is of God or satan, I do not know. As mediums or physics have this gift also. So as to who is behind the ability or gift of EGW still remains to me, a question of, is this of God or satan? God Bless, Denise (the berean) | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Joshua of the Rock, I will add that I'm still researching and finding many things that do not add up as her being able to know others secret sins. But as my research continues I can say that I do NOT believe that she is 'the spirit of prophecy.' She was a Godly woman at the beginning but to what extent this has been taken is still under research with me. This will take time as I'm trying to read ALL of her writings and not only so but also searching to see if they match up to Biblical Truth. So far, some do, some don't. Tonight I obtained 4 more of her 'testimonies for the Church.' I will read and compare them to her other writings but more importantly, the Bible. So far, my discovery is that some of those cases that she supposedly knew of secret sins, actually are not true as to how she knew them. In reality, some of these 'secret sins,' were told to her by word of mouth by others. Then after hearing what someone said, she would put them in her 'testimonies.' Also, I have noticed that many who were downcasted by her in her testimonies, were the ones that dared to defy her teachings. Interesting. By the end of my research, hopefully, I will not need to rely on others opinions of her as I WILL know what spirit accompanied her. I am not one to listen to others cast slanderous remarks and automatically believe everything I hear. I need to see the evidence myself. So far, I keep going back and forth a bit in my opinion of her. Although for the most part, I believe that Ellen White was a woman with many problems and was used to a great extent by others for monies. I do not necessarily believe however that she was completely innocent in this as her testimonies show me a woman who put alot of people's lives in slander or a negative tone. But I am Still trying to rid of the indoctrination instilled in this brain of mine. There is a part of me that is afraid to completely downcast her because a thought will enter my brain of 'what if she is for real and I'm messing with one of God's own?' While I'm not proud of the confusion or questions that are in my mind, this is an honest statement nonetheless. So I admit it as I'm sure others are in this same process. But, I will say that I do not live by her teachings and never did for that matter. Always in my mind, something told me there was something amiss. Today, I will say and believe that is was and is the Holy Spirit indwelling me and guiding me, into ALL truths. God Bless, Denise (the berean) and still researching. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
I'm laughing here as I see a real blooper in my typing in the first post of mine. Instead of Psychics I typed out physics. There is a big difference in these two words. Sorry about that, but hoped you enjoyed the laugh as I did. God Bless, Denise | ||
| Cas |
It's my opinion that Ellen White was not used by God. After reading Ellen Whites Mental Condition on Ellenwhite.org, it may be possible she suffered from frontal lobe epilipsy. (Not sure that is the right name), anyway I don't see how God could have worked in her with all her inconsistencies, and attacks on people that did not agree with her. The letters of The Testimonies were exposed to the public with peoples names in her time. I just don't think God would need Ellen White to condemn people, thinking to know their characters then condeming them in front of others to humiliate them and set them straight. With the Veltman Report and the admission that Ellen White copied so extensively, even from fiction!! How could she have been used by God? WDYT. Like many of you, still trying to make sense out of a lifetime of Adventism and where to go from here. God Bless All of you. | ||
| Max |
Cas, I think you're onto something. More and more I'm realizing that our "prophetess falsely so called" (PFSC) spent a lifetime indulging in what is known in psychobabble circles as "denial and projection." It works like this: She herself had a problem with "secret sin" (SS). She would lie awake at night agonizing over her SS, unable to overcome it, and feeling the awful condemnation of God hanging over her like a giant Black Widow Spider (BWS) suspended by a single strand on the ceiling over her bed. Terrible pressure is building up inside her. Feelings of guilt, frustration, powerless- ness, fear of the BWS -- terrified that at any moment it might drop. The BWS dropping down on her would symbolize her name suddenly being written down by angels in the books of heaven. In the "eternally lost" column. Covered with cold perspiration, she would throw off the covers, light an oil lamp, and pad into her study. There to sit at her desk and in a feverishly scrawling hand, claw figurative strips of skin off the face of some poor brother or sister in Battle Creek of whom she'd heard gossip was indulging in SS. And to really make her "testimony" stick she'd write that she got all this information from her angel. "I was shown" would be the steel spike through the heart. Thus with all the venom out of her own heart and and written down in the form of ink on innocent paper, she'd then sign the letter, stuff it in an envelope, affix a stamp, lay it in the outgoing-mail tray, light her way back to her bed, extinguish the oil lamp, and fall exhausted into bed. The pressure is gone. At last she could drift off into much-needed sleep. After all, on the morrow she had important duties to perform: More pressure- relieving "Testimonies to the Church" to pen.... A GC President to counsel on that land deal.... Other writers to plaigerize.... Oh how sweet the release. But, pray, slip away quickly into slumberland.... Perhaps to see her SS angel there? For already the hideous pressure is beginning to build anew. MC | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Yeah but Max, Ellen sayeth: "The testimonies of his Spirit call your attention to the Scriptures, point out your defects of character, and rebuke your sins; therefore you do not heed them. And to justify your carnal, ease-loving course, you begin to doubt whether the testimonites are from God. If you would OBEY their teachings, you would be ASSURED of their divine origin. Remember, your unbelief does not affect their truthfulness. If they are from God, they will stand. Those who seek to lessen the faith of God's people in these TESTIMONIES, which have been in the Church for the last thirty-six years, ARE FIGHTING AGAINST GOD. It is not the instrument whom you slight and insult, BUT GOD, WHO HAS SPOKEN TO YOU IN THESE WARNINGS AND REPROOFS." Testimony to the Church Vol. 5, page 234-235 Oh brother,,what a load of blarney! That is becoming quickly my opinion, the more I'm reading of her. God Bless all, Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Here another for you Max, which could verify what you said above about her not being able to sleep: "Dear Brethren and Sisters in _____: My mind has been exceedingly troubled in regard to your condition. I have not been able to sleep, and I arise at twelve o'clock to write to J, and to you as a church." Testimony to the Church Vol. 5, page 341, 1882 edition | ||
| Denisegilmore |
and another "Dear Bro. and Sister P: My soul is exceedingly sorrowful as I review your cases. Last night my mind was heavily burdened. In dreams I was conversing with you, Bro. P. Your separation from God was so evident, and you were so blind in regard to your true condition, that it seemed like saying to a a blind man, 'See,' to try to make you discern your true standing. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SLEEP SINCE THREE O'CLOCK and have been PLEADING WITH GOD for a larger measure of his Spirit. I INQUIRE OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WHO is sufficient for these things?" Testimony to the Church Vol. 5, page 430, 1882 edition | ||
| Max |
Denise, you're doing a Joshua of the Rock! Praising our sovereign God for the way He is using you both! --MC | ||
| Denisegilmore |
MC, Wow, now that is a complement! Thank you! And here I had no clue what I'm doing really <chuckling>. Praising God with you Max of the Cross. God Bless you, DTB :) | ||
| Cindy |
Max and Denise, Hi! That was great, Max...so descriptive of very probable night scenes...:-)) And Denise, (peace & love! :-)), those quotes were great showing how she did have trouble sleeping! I guess the very main one I have ALWAYS heard, (as a threat!), is the one about "the very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the Testimonies of God." She's saying that anybody who disbelieves, or makes of none effect, her testimonies are being deceived by Satan...in fact it will be a sign of the "last days!" Incredible, but sadly true. This alone is enough to scare thinking people away from assuming she has the truth... I don't have that quote reference since I threw away all her books a year ago...and haven't felt energized to check out the sites on the internet. I'm glad you have posted these, Denise; and also those great ones just recently posted by Joshua on her views on other churches! What in the world can the "liberal", "evangelical" SDA churches say to those quotes!? Check out the back cover of the recent (Jan 8, 2001) Christianity Today magazine...It advertizes yet another of the Adventist Ministry magazine sponsored events with two Adventist preachers and two "Babylon" ones... How do they reconcile what the prophet said (see Joshua's posts) with joining together in this seminar? I know, absolutely, though, that it is for the purpose of getting members into the Adventist church, the "true Remnant" with "the Truth"...(It would really be horrible if those who listened decided to join the Babylon churches instead! :-)) Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
p.s. Those posts of Joshua's that I mentioned above (with the quotes of EGW regarding "other" churches), are in the thread entitled "Dear Adventist Friend: Who are really Deceived?" | ||
| Max |
Cindy, "Satan is ... constantly pressing in the spurious -- to lead away from the truth. The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God." --Ellen G. White, The Publishing Ministry, page 360, paragraph 4. Chapter Title: Circulating the Spirit of Prophecy Books First. I testify that I am on of the writers of the New Testament. Second. I prophesy that you are going to reject my testimony. Third. See? I've just proved I am a true prophet, since you've just rejected my testimony, have you not? Fourth. For further proof, I've just read your mind too, have I not? --MC | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Cas, You said: "Like many of you, still trying to make sense out of a lifetime of Adventism and where to go from here." Good to see ya;-) Hope you visit again soon;-)) Anyway, my "unpopular" view is that what ever your past is, BUILD ON IT. God gave you your past and it was designed just for you. You may not know exactly the reasons this side of eternity, just trust Him. As to those that have absolutely horrible past experiences in and from SDAism, I don't know what to say except that His grace is sufficient. Maybe YOU are the one(s) that God intends to be the "lightning rod" to spark an otherwise un-sparkable lost soul into the eternal kingdom of God. Upward and onward....Maryann | ||
| Max |
Maryann, whaddaya mean "unpopular"? | ||
| Denisegilmore |
ELLEN WHITE SAYETH: "Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sr. White. You have thereby INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GOD. You know how the Lord has manifested himself through THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY." She also says further down: "I have been AROUSED FROM MY SLEEP with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my MIND; and I have written at MIDNIGHT, letters that have gone across the continent, and, arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. A POWER HAS IMPELLED ME to reprove and rebuke wrongs that I had not thought of. Is this work of the last thirty-six years from above, or from beneath?" Now she compares herself to the Apostle Paul: "Suppose-as some would make it appear, incorrectly however-that I was influenced to write as I did BY LETTERS RECEIVED FROM MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH. HOW WAS IT WITH PAUL? The news he recieved through the household of Chloe concerning the condition of the church at Corinth was WHAT CAUSE HIM TO WRITE HIS FIRST EPISTLE to that church. PRIVATE LETTERS HAD COME TO HIM stating the facts as they existed, and in his answer he laid down general principles which IF HEEDED would correct the existing evils." further down egw writes: Because the Lord had not given him a new revelation for that special time, those who were really seeking light, did NOT CAST HIS MESSAGE ASIDE as only a common letter. No, indeed. The Lord had shown him the difficulties and dangers which would arise in the churches, that when they should develop, he might know just how to treat them." Testimony to the Church Vol. 5, page 64-65 Personally, I do NOT consider Ellen White in the same league with Paul the Apostle. And apparently there were people saying that she wrote her testimonies according to what she was told either by word of mouth or letters. Otherwise, why is she defending her position? God Bless, Denise the Berean and still researching | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Ellen says this: "If you seek to turn aside the counsel of God to suit yourselves; if you lesson the confidence of God's people IN THE TESTIMONIES HE HAS SENT THEM, you are REBELLING AGAINST GOD as certainly as were Korah, Dathan, and Abiram." Testimony to the Church Vol. 5, page 66, 1882 edition She has many statements to induce fear into people. This is an autrocity. God Bless all, Denise, Berean and still the Berean | ||
| Denisegilmore |
More from egw: "Weak and trembling, I AROSE AT THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, to write to you. God was speaking through clay. You might say the communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been SHOWN ME. In these letters which I write, IN THE TESTIMONIES I BEAR, I AM PRESENTING TO YOU THAT WHICH THE LORD PRESENTED TO ME. I DO NOT WRITE ONE ARTICLE IN THE PAPER EXPRESSING MERELY MY OWN IDEAS. THEY ARE WHAT GOD HAS OPENED BEFORE ME IN VISION- the precious rays of light shining from the throne." Testimony to the Church Vol. 5, page 67, 1882 edition |
