| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Was EGW's angel wrong? SIX THINGS YOU CAN DO TO IMPROVE YOUR HEALTH In May 1989 representatives of nine health organizations and governmental bodies met under the aegis of the AHA, reviewed the scientific evidence, and concluded that most Americans can improve their overall health and maintain it with a few specific but fundamental dietary changes. The following guidelines are consistent with those promoted by each organization: * YOUR DIET GENERALLY: Eat a nutritionally adequate diet consisting of a variety of foods. * THE FAT IN YOUR DIET: Reduce consumption of fat, especially saturated fat, and cholesterol. * YOUR WEIGHT: Achieve and maintain an appropriate body weight. * FRUITS AND VEGGIES IN YOUR DIET: Increase consumption of complex carbohydrates and dietary fiber. * SALT IN YOUR DIET: Reduce intake of sodium. * ALCOHOL IN YOUR DIET: Consume alcohol ni moderation, if at all. Children, adolescents, and pregnant women should abstain. For more information go to: http://www.americanheart.org/Scientific/statem ents/1996/1001.htm | ||
| Lorinc |
Max, This strikes me as a strange reference to cite in a topic about how Scientific Evidence *contradicts* EGW; except for the very last point, which allows moderate alcohol use ("if at all!"), all of these recommendations *AGREE* with the SDA Health Message, as formalized by EGW, et.al, 140 years ago. Also, I have not read all of the archives for the "coffee" thread, but in your very first posting, the "Parkinsons" study also notes, "Caffeine is not a benign substance, he warns. It increases gastric acid, affects sleeping patterns, and makes ulcers bleed. " So it's not like EGW was *totally* off base. I have mixed feelings, here. I speak as one who enjoys a guilt-free cup of coffee from Dunkin Donuts (no Starbucks around here) on his morning commute, and even a nice glass of cabernet sauvignon on rare occasions. And yet, I look at the damage caused to our society by abuse of alcohol (traffic deaths, spousal abuse, medical problems, etc), and it leads me to wonder: maybe we'd all be better off if we *did* heed the Health Message. The man or woman who never drinks can never become an alcoholic. You can handle it. I can handle it. Lots of folks find they can't. I'd just hate for former SDA's, as a group, to emerge from their lives of total abstinence and jump with both feet into their newfound "freedom" to consume alcohol --- only to find themselves enslaved to it instead. Why exchange one bondage for another? Anyway, I'll stop rambling. I just find the SDA Health Message to be one of the better things about the church -- how many denominations even *care* about teaching their members a healthy lifestyle? (Honest question -- I don't know.) It would be very easy to leave Adventism, slip into dietary excesses, and "their last state shall be worse than their first." (Speaking from a purely physical viewpoint). God Bless, Lorin | ||
| Valm |
Lorin, You touch on a very good point here. I have noticed that many people do go out of the frying pan into the fire when they leave Adventism (With regards to addictive behaviors). It has made me wonder if there is an addictive proclivity in people who are attracted to Adventism and a genetical thread for those whose families have been in Adventism for generations. For myself, my addiction to overcome is food itself. It is something I have been taking seriously as I believe it is affecting my heart. It is something you all can put on your prayer list, I would like to trimm about 50 lbs and am bewildered to how I will do it. There are some positive messages of health in Adventism but like everything else they are taken to excess. Yes Adventists do speak of the things posted above but they do it at such restriction that other health problems occur. BALANCE is what is missing. I visited my family this summer due to my Father's heart attack. This 64 year old man has been a strict advocate of the health message. For about the last 10 years he has been a vegan with very little fat in his diet and ate most of his vegetables raw. He followed all of the laws; weighed 156 lbs and was doing his daily 3 mile walk when his heart attack hit. I firmly believe that he would have had his heart attack much sooner if he hadn't been doing these things as heart disease is a common occurence in our family history. On the other hand. My growing neices and nephews are only allowed to eat twice a day. Their last meal is at 5:30 and even if they are hungry or not given a snack before bed. They look anemic. My sister in law who is breast feeding looks like she will fall over at any given moment. My nephews have the same hyperactive behavior as my two do (ADHD runs in the family also although my family is in such denial) When my first born was that age, they insisted it was his diet but mine doesn't hold a candle to these two children's hyperactive behavior and they eat the diet that my family advocated for my child. These children do not get either enough protein or iron in their diet for neurological growth. I am genuinely concerned for them. Despite the fact that two of my brothers have nursing degrees as does my Father, they are unable to be reasonable in these matters. They have insisted that their immune systems are better for it. When anyone in my nuclear family gets sick they point this out. However, they all have been plagued with a virus this season and it does not occur to them that maybe their immune systems are not as benefitted as they think. Again, I say the word BALANCE! Max's point is that many of these things that we are counseled against can be beneficial if used modestly in our lives. Your point is well taken to beware of the excesses. PRAY for wisdom to find the balance. | ||
| Maryann |
Back in the 80s, with the freedom from legalism, some that I knew went off the deep end. A glass of wine became a bottle and the bottle multiplied. One individual sadly ended up in prison. I attribute that mostly to the new freedom of the use alcohol. I fully understand Shereen!!!!!!!!!!!! She has a great take on this whole situation. She can blast the warning for those that are un-aware!!!! Freedom from the constraints we experienced can be likened to a fella that was never allowed to drive a car till he was 40. Though he knows what the car can do, that it can be a vehicle of life or death and the fact that he has been around a car all his life makes NO difference. You put him in that car and give him the freedom to drive, there could and most likely WILL be an accident if he drives on a busy freeway! Maryann | ||
| Max |
Hi Lorin, If you are at all like me you are feeling overwhelmed by scientific evidence that contradicts my basic instincts about what's good and what isn't. And I do understand and appreciate your concern that former SDAs not plunge into excessive life-styles. But I would tend to give them a little more credit for ability to deal with truth. We never get anywhere withholding truth from people, although I would agree with you that we need to take people's feelings into consideration about how we present it. Consider that science has shown Ellen G. White to be wrong in the following areas: 1. Obesity. She herself was obese and to my knowledge her angel never asked her to counsel against this life-style disease other than to scold people for eating too much, one of the greatest causes of morbidity and mortality in our society, and an increasing problem. My SDA minister father was obese while he was head of the TEMPERANCE department in the Michigan Conference of SDAs for many many years. 2. Vitamin B12. It is contained in no plant food, only in animal food and the human body does not synthesize it. Yet her angel told her to counsel a diet free of all animal food products with no way to get B12. Without it you sicken and die. 3. Fiber. This is one of the main reason for eating fruits and veggies. But of this fact, Ellen's angel bore her no testimony. 4. Coffee. This "herbal remedy" has been studied to death by science which has found no harmful effects for moderate consumption and some positive effects, such as protection against Parkinson's disease. But Ellen White's angel remained totally ignorant. 5. Tea. Green tea has been shown to be one of the most healthful things you can drink. But again, Ellen's angel misfired. Nor has science been able to find anything particularly wrong with black tea. 6. Lean meat. Her angel remained clueless about saturated fat from meat, for example. 7. Cholesterol. No angel of God could have been so stupid about this substance. 8. Athesclerosis, the main problem behind the overwhelming number of deaths from heart trouble and stroke in this country. But from Ellen's angel: deafening silence! 9. Cancer. He told her that wigs and germs cause cancer! He knew nothing of the double helix and genetic predisposition or that cancer cells are defined as immortal. 10. Alcohol in moderation -- her angel was definitely not speaking for God or Scripture in any way, shape or form. 11. Sunshine -- he kept her criminally silent about sun-caused skin cancer, premature skin aging or vitamin D production. The list just goes on and on and on. These are just items off the top of my head. There is more, much much more. Have you ever read Dr. Ronald Numbers' book ELLEN G. WHHITE: A PROPHETESS OF HEALTH? Her angel appears to have been partially correct in the areas of exercise, the need for eating more fruits and vegetables, drinking pure water and breathing pure air. But these are common-sense areas that never needed extra-scriptural "light" from an angel of God. And even here the angel's "science" was far inferior to the good science that was going on at the time. Besides her angel, she learned from physicians of the folk-medicine mold, not the scientific (Kellogg, Graham, etc.). And her angel consistently came down on their side, rather than on the side of scientific medicine. And as a result Loma Linda was founded as a folk-medicine type of school. And they only reason why it was accredited as a medical school at all was that Ellen White was persuaded to reverse herself and go against her own angel. So I for one intend to keep right on posting the truth as long as God gives me ability and keeps driving me to do so. I know your heart is right, Lorin. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Maryann, How are you, you pagan-xmas-tree pusher? Nice to read your frequent posts. They give me plenty of laughs. About learning to drive at older ages: My mother never drove or knew how to drive till she was about 40, but she learned quickly -- almost overnight -- and became an excellent driver. She still drives once in awhile. She'll be 87 on December 26. (No, I won't send her a COMBO Xmas-and-birthday card. She hates that.) | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi Max, You wrote: >If you are at all like me you are feeling >overwhelmed by scientific evidence that >contradicts my basic instincts about what's >good and what isn't. Agreed. An interesting thing about scientific studies is that, like a well-designed experiment should, they seek to answer one specific question. You can't test a hypothesis that says, "Alcohol is good for you." But you *can* test a hypothesis that says, "Moderate alcohol consumption results in lowered risk of heart disease." Of course, that doesn't address the issue of side-effects, lifestyle issues, etc. The drug companies run some ads that I find downright humorous. I suffer from mild hay fever, so I keep an eye on the latest antihistamines, etc. Over the last couple years, I've seen a few ads like the following: Large Type: "New Sneeze-a-dryl DK was shown in clinical tests to be 98% more effective than a placebo. Ask YOUR doctor about Sneeze-a-dryl!" Small Type: "The most common side effects observed were dizziness, loss of appetite, blurred vision, internal bleeding, paranoid schizophrenia, and sudden brief periods of unconsciousness." Uhhh... I'll stick with my Drixoral. :-) > Have you ever read Dr. Ronald Numbers' book > ELLEN G. WHHITE: A PROPHETESS OF HEALTH? Yes... several years ago. Actually that's the "book that started to open my eyes." As a newly-converted Adventist, I found that book in the library and did a book report on it for college. I thought it would be a fascinating look at the Health Message... And it WAS! :-/ >So I for one intend to keep right on posting >the truth as long as God gives me ability and >keeps driving me to do so. By all means! Your posts are always fascinating, and by no means did I mean to imply that I wanted you to stop posting material that you find relevant!! (The drawback of living on the "wrong" coast is that I can't drop in on your FAF meetings, so we could all get to know each other and where we're coming from! :-) I guess the scripture that best encapsulates what I'm trying to say is Paul's comment that, "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are expedient." God Bless, Lorin | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Max, Your Mother is just two years older than my best friend! My best friend Arleta is 84. She is not only my best friend but my sister, my mother, my grandmother and my great grandmother. Isn't that something? I never imagined that I would have a best friend of 84. We chum around together...hehe. Why, she's older than my own Grandmother! I'm chuckling because my life is a miracle given of God Himself. God Bless you and your Mother, Denise | ||
| Lorinc |
Val, I totally agree with your posting about Balance. And that was a touching story about your nieces and nephews. When I first became an Adventist, I toyed with a strict (vegan) vegetarian diet. I bought a copy of the "Country Life Cookbook." One day I was looking at the people pictured on the cover -- men, women, children of various ages -- and it just jumped out at me that (no unkindness intended) *these people looked like cadavers!* Hollow cheeks, eyes sunken into the sockets, thin as rails... Shortly thereafter (but not just for that reason), I rejoined the lacto-ovo-even-turkey-at-Thanksgiving vegetarians. :-) Lorin | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Lorin, That passage from the apostle Paul about all things being lawful is one that I cite many times to many sda's. Especially when they walk into my apartment and find me eating meat, drinking coffee and smoking. I have found that when I use Scripture on them, rather than my own defenses, it usually lets them know that Scripture tells me that I'm free. Now if I go to their home, of course I wouldn't do these things as I respect what they believe. But they know where I stand and I know where they stand so the comments from them or nagging from them has ceased for the most part. For this, I am grateful. :) God Bless, Denise | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, Hmmmmmm, you say, "pagan-xmas-tree pusher" huhh? Well, I was uh thinkin', and I came up with somethin'! Since I am the pagan-xmas-tree pusher, you can be "Max the Ax"!;-)) And do the Axing!'-) You know, it's not but 10 miles from your place and you could come over and Ax a few trees for me!;-]]] And ifn there are no trees to Ax, you can Ax me what to do and you can help clean trees! Just bring a long sleeved shirt and I'll supply the gloves. Just think, you could then be known as, "Max the Pagan Ax"! In my spare time, I am privileged to have an abundance of great tapes to listen to, my Bible and some good books. Hmmmmmmm, that sounds like I just Axed for some help? As to the learning to drive at 40. I was 3 when my mom learned to drive. That made mom about 38 or 39! She learned on a tan '53 Ford station wagon. This thing had a clutch and that was just one to many peddles for her to think about while trying to pilot this thing around the roads that were 60s style. One of my first memories of her driving was when I was 3 or 4 and we were coming from our place to the actual Wildwood Ga. institution* and when she turned left off the main road at her usual fast pace, she put her foot on the brake and discovered that it was the clutch!;-(( We sailed over a 5 foot CLIFF and came to a muddy stop partway in a pretty deep sink hole! She was very happy when the next car was an automatic! * Webster defines "institution" as.....a place of confinement, as a prison, mental hospital etc. Hmmmmmmm, that sorta does fit Wildwood. Well, Ax, we'll Max you tomorrow, :):):):)......Maryann | ||
| George |
Maryann, I wouldn't expect a three year old to get things exactly right. So when after all there years you still don't have it right I would guess you are still three? Seems about right to me!!! It was a "54 Ford and it was an automatic. George | ||
| Maryann |
Sooooo, it was a '54! As far as the clutch jobber! It WAS a clutch as that is what she pushed instead of the brake causing the "battleship" to lurch forward so fast as to cause her to miss the turn and sail over the 5 foot cliff! Now.....if I was 3, that made you 13! I always understood that boys were slower than girls and usually a year or so behind girls. BUT THIS IS RIDUCULAS! You being 10 years behind me??;-))) The other option is that your memory is fadding in your extreme "old age!" Te he he he he.....Sis'-) | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Now now, you two. There's no need to argue. George, quit kicking your sister and Maryann, you should know better than to egg him on like that. What am I going to do with you two? Hmmmm..:)))) Wow, I feel like a real mom. Kinda fun. God Bless you both, Denise | ||
| George |
Maryann, Actually, I wasn't around at the time but I think it was another car this happened in? As for the old age. You have just admitted I am much wiser than you, as much wisdom only comes with extreme old age. Call Jack and ask him which it was. George |
