| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Any charge by anyone that my ideas are more in line with the Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, than with Scripture alone is simply mistaken. My ideas can only be compared with Scripture alone, not with any human council, human theory, human opinion or human anything else. Nothing but Scripture alone can be used as a criterion. And if Scripture is needed for this assertion of mine, I will be more than glad to supply it -- with exegesis and without eisegesis -- and in abundance. Here I stand, Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT TRENT: "If any one saith, that the justified sins when he performs good works with a view to an eternal recompense; let him be anathema." SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, WE HAVE BEEN MADE HOLY through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14 because by one sacrifice HE HAS MADE PERFECT FOREVER those who are being made holy. | ||
| Max |
AGAIN SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT TRENT: It is heresy to say that the believer sins when he does good works to earn an eternal reward. SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Galatians 3:1-3. You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? | ||
| Max |
SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT - III TRENT: It is heresy to say that the just should not receive an eternal reward from God because of their good works which they perform through the grace of God if they persevere in good works and keeping God's commandments to the end. SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Isaiah 64:6ÝAll of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. | ||
| Max |
SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT - IV TRENT: If any one saith, that the just ought not, for their good works done in God, to expect and hope for an eternal recompense from God, through His mercy and the merit of Jesus Christ, if so be that they persevere to the end in well doing and in keeping the divine commandments; let him be anathema. SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Romans 3:21-24 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. | ||
| Max |
SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT - V TRENT: If any one saith, that, in every good work, the just sins venially at least, or-which is more intolerable still-mortally, and consequently deserves eternal punishments; and that for this cause only he is not damned, that God does not impute those works unto damnation; let him be anathema. SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Romans 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." 13 "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." 14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. | ||
| Max |
SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT - VI TRENT: If any one saith, that the justified, either is able to persevere, without the special help of God, in the justice received; or that, with that help, he is not able; let him be anathema. It is heresy to say that the believer can maintain his justification without the help of God, or that he is not able to maintain it with God's help. SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Romans 9:11 Yet, before the twins [Jacob & Esau] were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. | ||
| Max |
SCRIPTURE ALONE AGAINST TRENT - VII TRENT: If any one saith, that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace, impossible to keep; let him be anathema. It is heresy to say that the commandments of God are impossible to keep, even by the justified believer. SCRIPTURE ALONE: NIV Romans 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. | ||
| Billtwisse |
Responses from Twisse: Cindy wrote (Nov. 10): Bill, Thanks for the info. on the web site and interesting history on Dr. Robbins.... Do you still attend a Presbyterian PCA church? I miss the sermons from the one I attended back east. The Pastor and I had some good discussions and we have e-mailed back and forth now that I've moved to the west. He had a great series on Galatians. We disagreed over some of the points on the continuuing validity of the 10 Commandment Law as printed in the Westminster Confession; but on the whole, it was a refreshing break from all the convoluted reasonings of the 27 Fundlemental Beliefs of Adventism! I miss your studies, Bill...You need to post some more! Grace always, Cindy Well, I see that you deserted Philly & Tenth Pres. for the left coast! Is it worth it? I won't argue for or against--each place has its own beauty. I can understand why you found the PCA and dialog with the Pastor refreshing. The gospel emphasis in the PCA is lacking in most other churches. I have been in the denomination for 10 years but will not be remaining much longer. The reasons are many and difficult to explain. I will continue to attend 'church' somewhere as a sign of fellowship with the larger body--but can no longer submit to the extreme view of the 'keys' and session authority maintained at the PCA assembly where I currently retain membership. In my view, the purest assemblies are small gatherings of believers committed to the true gospel. Fellowship with the larger thing called 'church' is optional--but I still do it for the mutual edification in Christ that exists there. I probably won't be posting near as much for a while. I'm spending what little free time I have in beginning to construct a website. It will be a long time in coming, though. All of my past writings (of significance) will be available there. I plan to write many other things in the future on a broad spectrum of Christian topics. Rayna: Thanks so much for the encouragement. God bless you also--in great abundance! Max & Patti: This is a good exchange between the both of you and I don't want to ruin it. I will challenge Bonhoeffer a little though: "Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate. Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock. Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ." For me, this doesn't quite sound like the grace magnified in the revelation to Paul. It contains a lot of truth, but . . . grace is complete in the person and work of Christ. I don't seek God again and again to find it--God finds me with it when I'm screaming, kicking, and dragging my feet in resistance. That is, until the Holy Spirit makes me willing in the day of his power--as he did with Paul on the road to Damascus. --Twisse | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Bill, In my mind, I think one of the bigger problems that we as Christians have is that we are un-aware, don't want to know, have not been discipled, haven't bothered to educate our selves of the great and wonderful power we have at our disposal.....The sometimes forgotten or ignored 3rd member of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. If only people could even partially understand what a friend, comforter, power etc. that is extended to us, we could come together as the body of Christ with much less friction. We don't have to grovel, look so ourselves, beg borrow or steal to have this power!!! IT IS OUR RIGHT NOW!!! Funny thing, when I finally realized that, I received a portion of the peace and joy that is promised to me when I believed and received Jesus. Upward and onward.....Maryann | ||
| Max |
Welcome, Bill! You post all too little of late. But what you post is always worthwhile, as in, ^^....grace is complete in the person and work of Christ. I don't seek God again and again to find it -- God finds me with it when I'm screaming, kicking, and dragging my feet in resistance. That is, until the Holy Spirit makes me willing in the day of his power -- as he did with Paul on the road to Damascus.^^ As I posted elsewhere, I'm thinking of writing a counter-EGW book titled THERE ARE NO STEPS TO CHRIST. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
FREE INDEED! The following scriptural texts challenge the idea expressed by some that after salvation we are not set free and do not have freedom in Christ. I will concede that these freedom texts are balanced by slavery texts, which show that we are slaves to Christ. And I hope to post these slavery texts soon in order to show how the balance demonstrates the sovereignty of God. Another paradox, therefore, is set up by Scripture alone, which shows that in Christ we are both slave and free. It is another example of the wonderful mystery of God. John 8:32ÝThen you will know the truth, and the truth will set you FREE." John 8:33ÝThey answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set FREE?" John 8:36ÝSo if the Son sets you FREE, you will be FREE indeed. Romans 6:7Ýbecause anyone who has died has been FREED from sin. Romans 6:18ÝYou have been set FREE from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 6:22ÝBut now that you have been set FREE from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. Romans 8:2Ýbecause through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me FREE from the law of sin and death. 1 Corinthians 7:22ÝFor he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a FREE man when he was called is Christ's slave. 1 Corinthians 8:9ÝBe careful, however, that the exercise of your FREEDOM does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 1 Corinthians 10:29Ýthe other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my FREEDOM be judged by another's conscience? 2 Corinthians 3:17ÝNow the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is FREEDOM. Galatians 2:4Ý[This matter arose] because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the FREEDOM we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. Galatians 5:1ÝIt is for FREEDOM that Christ has set us FREE. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Galatians 5:13ÝYou, my brothers, were called to be FREE. But do not use your FREEDOM to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. Hebrews 2:15Ýand FREE those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Hebrews 9:15ÝFor this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them FREE from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 13:5ÝKeep your lives FREE from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." James 1:25ÝBut the man who looks intently into the perfect law [i.e. Christ] that gives FREEDOM, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it--he will be blessed in what he does. James 2:12ÝSpeak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives FREEDOM, 1 Peter 2:16ÝLive as FREE men, but do not use your FREEDOM as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Revelation 1:5Ýand from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has FREED us from our sins by his blood, And so the song says, "Ah, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found you!" Indeed, for Christ is our "sweet mystery of life." Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
SLAVERY TEXTS THAT TEND TO BALANCE FREEDOM TEXTS Following are ìslavery in Christ,î ìslavery to obedience,î ìslavery to righteousness,î ìslavery to God,î and ìslavery to God's lawî texts which balance ìfreedom in Christî texts. Notice that: 1. The ìfreedomî texts (listed above) greatly outnumber the ìslaveryî texts. 2. The ìslaveryî texts all involve OBEDIENCE to Jesus Christ who is himself-in-person the new covenant law summed up in the single command to love written on the fleshy tablets of our hearts. Romans 6:16ÝDon't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as SLAVES, you are SLAVES to the one whom you obey -- whether you are SLAVES to sin, which leads to death, or TO OBEDIENCE [ìslavery to obedienceî], which leads to righteousness? Romans 6:18ÝYou have been set free from sin and have become SLAVES to righteousness [ìslavery to righteousnessî]. Romans 6:19ÝI put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in SLAVERY to righteousness leading to holiness. Romans 6:22ÝBut now that you have been set free from sin and have become SLAVES to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. Romans 7:25ÝThanks be to God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a SLAVE to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. 1 Corinthians 7:22ÝFor he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's SLAVE. 2 Peter 2:19ÝThey promise them freedom, while they themselves are slave of depravity -- for a man is a SLAVE to whatever has mastered him [ìslavery to our Lord and Master Jesus Christî]. Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Max, Patty, and all... (Bill! thanks for your response; I do miss a lot of people and things from the East coast! But we have beautiful mountains here. :-))0 First of all, can we just CELEBRATE GRACE and not try to qualify it as cheap or false? Those terms are truly an oxymoron when paired with Grace! Grace.."God's unfathomable and infinite mercy" toward us, all given freely in Christ's work for us! Christ crucified for me! I have read Bonhoeffer also and think he has had some good ideas, but I don't agree with him in every respect... He writes: "Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which we must knock." ??? No!... This grace of Jesus is bestowed as a GIFT; we don't need to keep asking for it again and again! Does He keep taking it back!? One look at the saving act of the Cross is sufficient. We may, again and again, express our thanks for this indescribable gift; but we don't need to seek it (this Grace, this gift) again and again... And again, HE SEEKS US!! And this other statement of Bonhoeffer's seems slightly schizophrenic: "Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate". I would say that Grace DOES preach forgiveness without "requirements". We mix the message with "conditions" attached. It is Freely given!! The works of church discipline and personal confessions are RESULTS and EFFECTS of the preaching of Grace, but NOT Grace itself! And , of course! there is no Grace without the Cross, no Grace without Jesus!! HE is the Atoning sacrifice for our sins; they have ALL been forgiven on account of HIS NAME. It is Finished! and this is the Grand News of GRACE we can proclaim... Grace always, Cindy P.S. What do you think of Bonhoeffer's involvement in the plot to kill Hitler? This brings up a whole different suject, I know...But was this the Holy Spirit's leading? What about "turning the other cheek"? How much is God in control? How much does He impress us to take matters into our own hands...? | ||
| Maryann |
God used the Children of Israel to commit mass murder at times! Jericho for one instance. He certainly didn't have them turn their cheeks all the time? Just a thought.....Maryann | ||
| Patti |
Very good, Cindy. You very precisely summed up my objections to the "cheap grace" argument. Grace is not cheap, it is free; but it is at the same time priceless. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Patti and Cindy, Both of you are so right! GOD'S grace is NEVER cheap! NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! It is when "GOD'S" grace is filtered through the human mind, distorted and used for ones "own" sinful desire to continue to live a worldly life style that is becomes cheap. That is cheap grace! The reason I am so convicted about this is that I experienced "cheap grace!" I truly know what cheap grace is. That is the lowest time of my life. I used grace to continue my life style!!!! You can NEVER tell me that grace is NEVER cheap. Believe me when I say that there is absolutely nothing that we as sinners can not screw up!!! I'm working on my testimony of when I became a believing child of God and am very anxious to get it finished and posted. Upward and onward......Maryann PS...Patti....I will answer your questions when either I find the post you asked them in when "keyword search" gets fixed or you tell me where it is! | ||
| Max |
Hi Cindy, Now that coffee has been scientifically proven to be an herbal health drink (and not only by the Parkinsonís study either), and not the evil sin Ellenís Angel told her it was, how do you feel about drinking it? ABOUT GRACE: It cannot be qualified or defined as cheap or false. It is what it is by Godís sovereignty alone. God tells us what it is through Scripture alone. It is the advocates of ìcheap graceî = ìfalse graceî = ìSatanís graceî who know nothing of "free grace" = ìcostly graceî = ìreal graceî = ìGodís grace.î Whenever grace -- which is always free and costly and real and God's -- is truly celebrated it is always with repentance and brokenness at the foot of the cross. It is then and only then that one sees the tawdry quality of ìcheap graceî = ìfalse graceî = "Satan's grace." The only definitions / illustrations of Godís grace -- which is always free and always costly and always true, never cheap and never false -- which have sovereign value come from Scripture alone. Hereís my favorite: NIV Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' 13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' 14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." To say that nothing happened inside this believing tax collector is to slander Godís free grace (Romans 3:8). What, then, happened inside this believer? We know the answer only from the outward appearance, since we look on the outward appearance, whereas God looks on the heart. Thus he: ìstood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.íî Any idea that this tax collector did nothing and did not do something in response to Godís grace is nonsense. For he: 1. Bowed his head. 2. Beat his breast. 3. Prayed, ìGod, have mercy on me, a sinner.î In short, he repented. There cannot be a more classic definition of repentance. And it comes directly from Scripture alone. ABOUT BONHOEFFER: This great and good theologian and modern Christian martyr cannot be defeated without Scripture. I invite you to use Scripture if you wish to counter his confession of faith. Your brother in Christ, Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Max, as far as coffee goes, I just came from my regular lunch-time routine at a drive-thru espresso place! There's a really nice couple who run the place... Now I've got 10 minutes to catch up on FAF here at the library... I still question some of Bonhoeffer's theology, but I do enjoy some of his thoughts!. How about his thoughts while in prison?! "Who am I?... Thou knowest, oh God, I am thine!" I would qoute it all but my book is at home and I don't have time right now to see if they have a copy here... Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
All who are being tempted by the idea that there is no such thing as ìcheapî or ìfalseî grace, Read this Scripture, Wherein is explained GODLESS, LICENTIOUS, IMMORAL, CHRIST-DENYING, SEXUALLY PERVERTED, POLLUTED, AUTHORITY-REJECTING, SLANDEROUS GRACE: NIV Jude 1:4-8: ìCertain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are GODLESS men, who CHANGE THE GRACE of our God into a LICENSE for IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. ìThough you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home -- these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to SEXUAL IMMORALITY and PERVERSION. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. ìIn the very same way, these dreamers POLLUTE their own bodies, REJECT AUTHORITY and SLANDER celestial beings.î Max of the Cross |
