| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
I believe that the old covenant law was the 613 Old Testament laws taken together. I believe they were ALL shadows pointing to Christ. I believe that the person of Jesus Christ God the Son IS the law to which ALL these shadows pointed. Christ's incarnation, birth, life, acts, teachings, commandments, death, rest in the tomb, resurrection, appearances in the flesh to human beings, ascention into heaven, sitting down at the right hand of the Father, and sending of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost ALL comprise the new covenant law. Thus Christ did not come to destroy the faulty old covenant statement of the law BECAUSE he did not come to destroy himself! What do YOU believe? Be of good cheer, for Christ has overcome the world! Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
God's love is indeed "greater far than tongue or pen can ever tell." This is a great miracle. There is another miracle, the miracle that this boundless law of God's law of love is actually written on our hearts. But that is exactly what Scripture tells us! NIV Romans 2: 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are WRITTEN on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) | ||
| Max |
JESUS CHRIST -- NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OR THE TORAH -- IS THE ONLY PERFECT LAW OF GOD According to Scripture alone -- and quite apart from all human opinion, conjecture and theory -- Jesus Christ is "the radiance of his [God's] glory and the [exact] representation of his reality." Hebrews 1:3 (InterlinearGreek-English New Testament = IGNT). This universal spiritual reality comprises the very definition of all truly moral laws. According to Romans 2 there exists nowhere on this planet a truly moral law that stands independent of divine law. A staggering concept, but absolutely scriptural, as shown in my post just above. The moral law expressed in the Old Testament is the law that Jesus said he did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17). It is the law that existed before the first Christmas (incarnation), but only "in many portions" (Heb. 1:1 IGNT) or "in many bits and pieces" (Greek) or in very inexact and fragmentary form (such as, but not limited to, the Ten Commandments). It is this INEXACT AND INCOMPLETE AND INFERIOR law, then, that Jesus replaced with his own being. In other words the inexact, incomplete and inferior Old Testament law was replaced by the EXACT AND SUPERIOR AND COMPLETE person of Jesus Christ. The new covenant law of Christ (love) includes Jesus and everything about him: his incarnation, birth, life, acts, teachings, parables, healings, commandments, crucifixion, rest in the tomb, resurrection, ascention, sitting down at the right hand of the Father, appearing in person to his disciples and many others on various occasions and finally to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus, and sending the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2). Thus the moral law of Jesus Christ is EXACT AND SUPERIOR AND COMPLETE compared to the INEXACT AND INCOMPLETE AND INFERIOR moral laws that the pre-Christmas God the Son had already given in Old Testament times. At best they were only shadows pointing to Him. He is the same God the Son who delivered the inexact and incomplete and inferior moral laws to the Hebrew people. And the same God the Son who delivered all truly moral laws ever given to all people everywhere anywhere -- even to the heathen and pagan (Romans 2)! And as Giver he is also their Author. And as the Author he (alone) has earned the right to REPLACE them all with the very person of himself. Furthermore he alone is the only one who is worthy enough and who has sufficient power and right and authority to write it on our hearts (2 Corinthians 3:2-3). This concept is even more staggering than the universe-busting size of God-the-Son's law of love. Worthy is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8 KJV)! Since the day of Pentecost recorded in Acts, Jesus Christ in the Person of the Holy Spirit IS ALL THERE IS of truly moral law anywhere. Sorry, my Adventist friends, there isn't any more. And there will never be any more. This is it. Enjoy it. Delight in it. Notice that it does NOT include required Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, pork-shunning, wine-shunning, jewelry-shunning, people-shunning or circumsizing behaviors. For this law of God the Son Jesus Christ is summed up in a single word: love. Threfore, be of very good cheer! For Jesus Christ has indeed overcome the world! Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
IT IS NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS THAT COMPLETELY, PERFECTLY AND ETERNALLY REPRESENT GOD THE FATHER, BUT JESUS CHRIST We have already seen (in Hebrews 1:1) that the old covenant law -- the Ten Commandments -- represents God only partially, imperfectly and temporarily. Now, by contrast, we will see that God the Son completely, perfectly and eternally represents God the Father. Following are eight Scriptures (NIV) that say so. 1. ISAIAH 9:6. ìHe [the son to be born] will be called ... Everlasting Father....î 2. JOHN 12:45-56. ìWhen [a man] looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light....î 3. JOHN 14:9-10. ìAnyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ëShow us the Fatherí? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.î 4. 2 CORINTHIANS 2:4. ìChrist ... is the image of God.î 5. PHILIPPIANS 2:6-7. ì[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.î 6. COLOSSIANS 1:15. ì[Our Lord Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.î 7. COLOSSIANS 1:19 ìGod was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in [Christ].î 8. HEBREWS 1:1-3. ìIn the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets [for example, Moses giving the Ten Commandments], but in these last days [69 AD] he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of Godís glory and the exact representation of his being.î Conclusion: If God the Son completely, perfectly and eternally represents God the Father and the Ten Commandments do not, then when Christ Jesus came he completely, perfectly and eternally FULFILLED them and REPLACED them with the Person of himself. And, since his Commandments recorded in the New Testament (new covenant) do not include Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, circumcising, ham-shunning, jewelry-shunning, wine-shunning and people-shunning behaviors, they are simply not on the true Christ-follower's obedience list. Gospel blessings, Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Good morning Max! This thread reminded me of your good story (written by Jude the Obscure, a.k.a. Max!) of May 8, 2000 called "Where the Armor is that Once Ruled the Kingdom in the Center of the World". I just re-read it and would encourage newcomers to go back and read the story and the various comments by others. Hit "Tree View" to the left and scroll down the threads to find it... Steve had some great comments; where are you Steve? Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Thanks Cindy, Saw Steve last Friday evening at FAF meeting held in the fellowship hall at Trinity Evangelical Free Church in Redlands, California. He has been unable to post because of his circumstances -- lack of access to a modem "card." But his faith is "hanging tough" through the situation in which God has put him. Pray for him. Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
NOT ONLY IN JESUS CHRIST FULLY GOD, BUT HE IS IN A SPECIAL AND UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FATHER 1.The Son is the IMAGE of the Father. NIV COLOSSIANS 1:15. ì[Our Lord Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.î NIV 2 CORINTHIANS 2:4. ìChrist ... is the image of God.î 2. He is the HUMAN LIKENESS of the Father in SERVANT FORM. PHILIPPIANS 2:6-7. ì[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.î 3. He was the LIGHT of the Father illuminating earth. NIV JOHN 12:45-56. ìWhen [a man] looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light....î 4. ALL THE FULLNESS of the Father (as well as of the Holy Spirit) dwelt in him. NIV Colossians 2:9. "In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." 5. He is the RADIANCE and the EXACT REPRESENTATION of the Father NIV HEBREWS 1:1-3. ìIn the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets [for example, Moses giving the Ten Commandments], but in these last days [69 AD] he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of Godís glory and the exact representation of his being.î 6. The Father did HIS WORK through the Son. NIV JOHN 14:9-10. ìAnyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ëShow us the Fatherí? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.î 8. He even bore the Father's NAME. NIV ISAIAH 9:6. ìHe [the son to be born] will be called ... Everlasting Father....î CONCLUSION The point, my dear Adventist friend, is that you are using Ellen White's statement that the Ten Commandments (and other Old Testament laws) are the "transcript of God's character" to enforce Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, ham-shunning, jewelry-shunning, wine-shunning and people-shunning (SDA remnant doctrine) behaviors. And, believe me, you would include circumcizing also if Paul had not spoken out so adamantly against it! But nowhere in Scripture is the idea that the Ten Commandments (and the other Old Testament laws) are "the transcript of God's character." Scripture makes a very different case, as we have seen in the eight texts above (and others). The case that Scripture makes is that the Ten Commandments (and other OT laws) are NOT the transcript of God's character. They are nothing more than imperfect, incomplete and temporary SHADOWS pointing to the the perfect, complete and eternal spiritual reality of Jesus Christ and His Commandments. In Scripture the closest we can come to the prhase "transcript of God's character" is the phrase "exact representation of his being." Now I have nothing against Jesus Christ on earth being the "transcript of God's character," although I prefer the scriptural phrase "exact representation of his being." Therefore, if Christ -- not the Ten Commandments -- is "the transcript of God's character," then we should look to Christ's Commandments rather than the Ten Commandments (and other OT laws) for guidance in our believer's life of loving obedience to God. For nowhere in the Commandments of Jesus are found Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, ham-shunning, jewelry-shunning, wine-shunning, people-shunning (SDA remnant teaching) and circumcizing behaviors! Therefore, if the Ten Commandments (and other OT laws) do not completely, perfectly and eternally represent God the Father, then we should look to Christ rather than to them. And if Jesus Christ and his Commandments do represent "the transcript of God's character," then Sabbath-keeping, tithe-paying, ham-shunning, jewelry-shunning, wine-shunning, people-shunning (remnantizing), and circumcizing behaviors are simply not on the true believer's obedience list. Deep down, my Adventist friend, you know you are in bondage. And you may well be open to receiving this truth. But if you continue being unaware of this truth, then you will continue to accuse us (FAF and other Christ followers) of doing away with God's moral law. And you will continue to accuse os of going out and doing anything we want, meaning lawless behavior and the casting off of all moral restraint. You need to be convinced by Scripture alone that since Christ came, all lawful behavior and all moral restraint are exactly and permanently contained in Christ and His Commandments. These the Holy Spirit has written on our hearts. And we show them by our loving behaviors toward one another. In real grace, Max of the Cross |
