| Author |
Message |
Max
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2000 - 1:16 pm: |     |
Indeed, Lorin! And QOD, as "Questions on
Doctrine" came to be known, was quickly
branded as subversive, taken out of print, and
banished from SDA Book and Bible Houses
during the counter-reformation purges of the
late 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s under the GC
presidencies of Pierson, Wilson and
Folkenberg. Exactly how Paulson's
administration will play out in terms of
continuing the purges is still under review by
what little is left of the SDA "righteousness by
faith" movement, now deep underground.
Blessings in your search for a new church
home that will minister to your precious
children,
Max of the Cross |
Maryann
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2000 - 1:22 pm: | |
Hi Lorin (and family),
You said:
"(I see there's a 12-step program elsewhere on this board, so I'm not worried about addiction! :-)"
That was funny! I forgot about that;-(( I may need to good back and re-12-step my self.
Good to see you here! Hope to see more of you as time eeeks by:):)
Maryann |
Colleentinker
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2000 - 11:30 pm: | |
Welcome, Lorin! We'll be praying for you and your family.
Colleen |
Shereen
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2000 - 11:44 am: | |
Hello Lorinc
Welcome. I am a very new person here and still not sure of what to believe but so far, from all I have read and put against scripture, I am getting a bit more comfortable here. I am, hopefully, going to be searching for a new church but not just yet. Good luck! |
Patti
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2000 - 1:03 pm: | |
Hi, Shereen!
I don't have much time, but just wanted to say, "welcome!"
Grace and peace,
Patti |
Jay
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2000 - 7:10 pm: | |
Hi, Lorinc! Hi, Shereen! Consider yourselves
warmly welcomed from another new kid on the block.
Grace to you tonight.
Jay |
Susan
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 11:50 am: | |
Wow, if you don't check in with this forum all the time there's so much catching up to do!
Max, a couple of days ago you asked why some SDA's heads are still down, if they reject the big adventist doctrines. I agree with Jay's comments on this and would like to add some of my thoughts. I guess I would have to ask them, "Why are you still in the church?" It's my opinion that you can't have Jesus Christ as your cornerstone and still belong to a denomination, that has a veil of deception and false teachings covering it. You can be a believer in Jesus and his saving grace, but you can't experience the freedom of holding your head up. It's difficult to know this freedom when you are still in a church that is founded on a false prophet (even if you reject her, you are still prone to the "spirits" associated with her teachings and her church, and I'm not refering to God's spirit here). Do you ever wonder why so many pastors (not all) who start preaching the saving grace of the gospel and who start turning away from EGW's writings, always seem to end up leaving Adventism? Anyway, just a few thoughts. Hope I'm not getting you to confused with my writing. It's not easy to type what's going on in my brain (to many distractions)!
Jay, I've noticed many similarites with the cults and with adventism too. I've read several books on the subject. In fact, I've only considered Adventism a cult for just under 2yrs. now. After I left, I had a huge interest in cults and apologetics (still do). But CRI claims that Adventism isn't a cult. This confused me because the more I studied other cults and the testimonies of their former members, the more convinced I was that Adventism could also be classified as "cultic". Then God lead me to this site and someone kindly sent me the "red books" by Dale Ratzlaf. I can't tell you how thrilled I was to see something with "cultic" in the title with regards to SDAism! I make no apologies now for classifying Adventim as a cult. When other Christians seemed puzzled or ask me questions, it just opens the door for sharing and sometimes they might even know a former SDA who needs support. Lets be bold in sharing what we know!
Lorin and Shereen, thanks for feeling comfortable sharing with us. Glad you're both here and hope to see more from you. Welcome!
In Christ,
Susan |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 3:47 pm: | |
Hi Susan,
In my career professionally employed in
Adventism as an editor I knew probably
hundreds of others who rejected what you
term "the big adventist doctrines" or modified
them out of existence inside their heads. Many
people have asked them, "Why are you still in
the church?" The most common reason:
economic survival.
What would you do, Susan, if you were the
sole breadwinner for your family -- with, say,
three kids in school -- and you were an SDA
minister who wasn't trained for any other kind
of work? Think about that before you reach too
broad a conclusion. The question for them is
not, How can you "have Jesus Christ as your
cornerstone and still belong to a
denomination that has a veil of deception and
false teachings covering it." It is rather, "Dear
Lord, how can I get out of this claustrophobic
coffin and still support my family?"
Many I have known began to sell insurance or
worked in construction or another trade. It's
hard, Susan. Let God be judge here.
Max of the Cross |
Susan
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 4:32 pm: | |
Max, sorry I didn't mean to judge. I just thought you wanted us to respond, on what our opinions are. I feel terrible for anyone who might be in the prediciment you described. I think all of us can be correct about this issue. I know Adventists who deny the big doctrines, yet they remain in the church. In fact I know one of them is there to try and reform things from within. And I know someone who's employed by the church. Perhaps they're afraid to leave for economical reasons like you said. I think the reasons are many. But God is bigger than all the reasons. I know that He is sovereign and will work all things out, for those who trust in Him. God will never give us more than we can handle. It may seem like it, but He is with us through EVERYTHING. Even scary things like job security, family break-down, finding a church home etc.
Didn't mean to upset anyone. I was only putting in my 2cents. Sometimes I'm not sure if I should post because things tend to come out wrong too often.
In Christ,
Susan |
Patti
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 4:48 pm: | |
Susan,
You are doing fine.
It is difficult to portray expression, compassion, inflection, intensity with merely words on a white screen. But your words do not reflect anything but a sincere desire to share your beliefs with others.
As for your words, you are right. Most SDA pastors who preach grace tend to leave. On the other hand, I know personally of several who merely put in their years and got out. Their rationale was twofold:
1. Someone needs to preach grace to SDAs! and,
2. They had all their vocational eggs in one basket.
I have a very close relative in the same position.
Having said that, let me assure you that you did not come across as judgmental in the least. Some people are very sensitive and if you don't put in lots of smiley faces and word things so that you dance around an issue instead of stating it in black and white, you are being argumentative and judgmental. In other words, you just can't please all the people all of the time! And it is a very frustrating experience to try to.
I, for one, enjoy your posts!
Please continue posting.
God bless!
Grace and peace,
Patti |
Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 8:40 pm: | |
Susan,
Reports of my ogredom are vastly
exaggerated!
I wasn't upset and certainly didn't mean that
you were judging any grace pastor for not
leaving the SDA ministry.
God bless you always,
Max of the Cross |
Jimm
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 2:41 pm: | |
Hi everyone. This is my first post so please bear with me. Have tried posting b4 but computer sabotaged me. This is an excellent site and I am sure everyone who drops by can gain from the views expressed here. Thank you all for pointing out the significance of the old and new covenant as it applies to the bad theology of E.G.White and the SDA Denomination. I really feel sorry for the employees of the SDA organization who have come to realize that they are party to an organization that plays fast and loose with truth, honesty, Scripture and anything that is at cross purpose to the aims and objectives of the SDA organization
($$$$$$$$$$$). I am sure that many feel trapped
after devoting years of their lives. Anyhow, keep the excellent threads of discussion going. I know that they are of help to those of us who feel victimized by the deceptions of E.G.White and the false Doctrines of the SDA Denomination. |
Maryann
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 8:54 pm: | |
Hi Jimm,
Welcome!! You are certainly adding to the forum.
What is your background. I must assume you are a FORMER SDA? Waht is your story?;-))
As to the computer's that sabotage you! Everyone has one! I have to hide all my hammer's or similar weapons so mine will remain among the living;-((
It is always the best post that get annihilated. That just happened to Patti today! I can really feel for her!
Maryann |
Allenette
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 8:55 pm: | |
Well, Max, what you posted regarding SDA employees, especially pastors, is SPOT ON. My dear departed Tradventist pastor dad, spent enough time trying to "herd cats" (his kids) to keep his job as a pastor...the saddest thing I can remember him saying to me, pretty desperately, when I was one "wild" kid(not hard to be, in SDA ggg)--over 18 I might add, was that he could lose his job (which at the time meant I went to movies and drank beer OMG!!!)...if he couldnt CONTROL his own family. So much for personal choice. At the time all I could think of was, what a lousy job to have! I was away from home, on my own, and he STILL had to account for his parenting TO HIS BOSS~!! BTW, I was also at the time, a paying student at New England Memorial Hospital, where the kids of the administrators on down, were far more "worldly" than I had ever considered....oh well, past history but worth recalling every now and then when I get nostalgic. Chapter TWO later.....;-) |
Maryann
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2000 - 9:54 pm: | |
Hi Allenette,
You are our resident bright spot;-))
:):)....Maryann |
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