| Author | Message | ||
| Rayna |
When people begin the become excited about the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives, I think they forget their sinfulness even after accepting Jesus. On earth, we will always be sinners because of our sinful nature. Therefore, works and faith do not justify us before God, nor works alone, as our works are sinful in God's sight. "...for there is no man which sinneth not." I Chronicles 6:36 "There is none rightous, no not one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." They are all gone out of the way. They are together become unprofitable. There is none that doeth good, no not one. Romans 3: 10-11 "Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it sayeth to them that are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and ALL THE WORLD may become guilty before God" Romans 3:19 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." I John 1:8 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10 "But the scripture hath conluded ALL UNDER SIN, that the promise of faith by Jesus Christ might be given them that believe" Gal.3:24 We are only declared righteous, not made righteous in this life before God. God does not impute our sins unto those that have accepted Jesus as their Saviour. | ||
| Max |
Amen, Rayna! Well said. | ||
| Rayna |
Excuse the mistakes I made in my grammar. Sometimes I get to putting my thoughts down as I type and forget the grammar. The post should say: "When people become excited about the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives, I believe they forget their sinfulness." Also I should have said, "God does not impute sin unto those that accept Jesus as their Saviour." I believe this means past, present, and future sins. Anyway, hope the thought came through clear. | ||
| Max |
The thought came through just fine as far as my ears are concerned. | ||
| Joni |
Rayna, I have to add "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!!..." After reading your message, I am so thankful for our Loving and Righteous God. I only want to serve Him. Joni | ||
| Joni |
Rayna, I have to add "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!!..." After reading your message, I am so thankful for our Loving and Righteous God. I only want to serve Him. Joni | ||
| Rayna |
So true Joni, we are all wretched. That is why we all need a Saviour. This applies also to our lives after receiving the Holy Spirit. But this gives us the privilege of believing that God gave us Jesus to be our substitute before Him. I like this verse in Romans: 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness." I believe that this means for all our life on earth, as we will always be sinners. The mercy of God is beyond our comprehension, but I am so thankful this morning for God's mercy to me a sinner. | ||
| Max |
From the NIV: Romans 7: 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Romans 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. | ||
| Allenette |
Rayna.....I kinda think I know you...by online stuff anyhoo...would you want to tell us on here what you are/do that made you think you are so wretched???? Methinks that a whole lot of humans underestimate themselves after they decide they are God's earthly defectives..anyway, I certainly didnt think YOU were!!!! ggg | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Allenette:):), My e-mail is alive and well but I still don't have my own 'puter going and the one I'm using is just to wacky to do MSN. How ya be, girl?! :-)) :):).....Maryann | ||
| Allenette |
Hi back. wont waste bandwidth yakking about my current busy-ness, was mentioned earlier in a post and I'm still "at it". Just hate seeing people I have corresponded with, putting themselves down when I KNOW that they are fine folk and seem to be beating themselves up with their Bible. Visually it aint pretty and realistically it just seems unnecessary. Rayna is a very very sweet person who works as a nurse and I just cant picture her being this wretched ANYTHING. Way too many Christians label themselves as this way when they really should be patting themselves on the back for their responsible lifestyles. Psychologists would write in their little notebooks about their lack of self esteemm, and charge them 75$/hr for their services. Sure, their lives arent maybe perfect, but, they are doing the best they can and I personally think that there isnt enough reinforcment for that. Some who arrive on these websites should get a bit more reinforcement for their personal "rubber hits the road" reactions rather than Bible verses, but....that's just my opinion. TTFN | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Allenette, You are right in the way you are appying wretched. For myself, I took it another way. Wretched in the context of the conversation was in "GOD'S sight. No matter what anyone does, it is wrecthed as far as our salvation is concerned. I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that there are things that one can look at in their lives and be encouraged (pat their back as you said). That to me is the whole point of "bearing fruit!" for people searching for a better way to see and self encouragement. Anyway, good to see your name up and talking again;-) Maryann | ||
| Max |
I would only add that looking at one's self to find worthy things which merit patting one's self on the back is not Christ's antidote to "feeling wretched." It is rather looking at Christ's self and finding worthy things there which merit God's patting you on the back. Wouldn't God's pat give you a greater thrill than your own? It does me! In my view Christianity is the greatest, most successful form of psychological therapy of all time. You should see all the happy people worshipping Sunday morning in our church! This is just my opinion, but I think Rayna's problem is stopping at Romans 7 and failing to go on to Romans 8. Max of the Cross | ||
| Patti |
Rayna's problem? You mean, Paul's problem. After all, Paul does not say "Wretched man that I WAS." You say she stopped at Romans 7, but you yourself stop at Romans 8:14. Let's go on: 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, "Abba! Father!" 16 it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christóif, in fact, WE SUFFER WITH HIM SO THAT WE MAY ALSO BE GLORIFIED WITH HIM. 18 I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory about to be revealed to us. 19 FOR THE CREATION WAITS WITH EAGER LONGING FOR THE REVEALING OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. 20 for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that THE CREATION ITSELF WILL BE SET FREE FROM ITS BONDAGE TO DECAY AND WILL OBTAIN THE FREEDOM OF THE GLORY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labor pains until now; 23 and not only the creation, but WE OURSELVES, WHO HAVE THE FIRST FRUITS of the Spirit, GROAN INWARDLY WHILE WE WAIT FOR ADOPTION, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES. 24 For in hope we were saved. NOW HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NOT HOPE. For who hopes for what is seen? 25 BUT IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT SEE, WE WAIT FOR IT WITH PATIENCE. 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PRAY AS WE OUGHT, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. 27 And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified. 31 What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not withhold his own Son, but gave him up for all of us, will he not with him also give us everything else? 33 Who will bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors THROUGH HIM THAT LOVED US. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD. We never surpass the point of being hopeless sinners saved only by the grace of God. Our righteousness, our only righteousness, is in Jesus Christ, where rust cannot decay nor moth destroy. May I also be accused of having Rayna's "problem" of depending upon the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone! Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Max |
Philippians 3 1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-- 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence. If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. 7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. 15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained. 17 Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. 18 For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. --NIV |
