| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
I USED TO THINK THE ABSENCE OF THE CROSS ON AND WITHIN SDA CHURCHES WAS MERELY AN ANTI-CATHOLIC GESTURE. More lately I've begun to wonder if the real reason doesn't run deeper. Maybe it's the SDA doctrine that denies the all-sufficiency of the cross to make a complete atonement between sinful humans and a sinless God. What do you think? Why no crosses on/within SDA churches? Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, What a great thread. What a great question!!!! | ||
| Larimobley |
Am I right that Mormon churches also do not display crosses on their churches? Does anyone know about Jehovah's Witnesses? Don't think they do either. Interesting thread, Max. | ||
| Max |
I also don't think they do, and maybe for the same reason -- lack of faith in the all-sufficiency of the cross. Steve is our cults expert on FAFF. Maybe he could enlighten us more. Incidently, I'm posting during breaks moving into my new apartment. This is sure a lot more fun than moving and putting old things in new places. How've you been, Lari? Max of the Cross | ||
| Ken |
Hi Max: As par usual you are wrong again. Our church has one over the Baptismal pool, on the front of pulpit, every light fixture in the sanctuary has four oh and the Christian flag...Max's theory...shot down...again Cheers Ken | ||
| Max |
Yes, Ken, I've noticed. And, by the way, thanks for coming into the "For Our Adventist Friends" folder. Yes, Ken, the crosses are indeed creeping into Adventist churches -- praise God! -- though they're still rather rare. You know, Ken, before I started attending Trinity Evangelical Free Church in Redlands on Sundays I attended the Celebration Center SDA Church (which is located just off Interstate 10 somewhere near the boundaries of Loma Linda, Redlands, and San Bernardino). Celebration Center (CC) is considered quite liberal for Adventist church. For example, they practice religious dancing both in the aisles and on the platform. Well, CC has suspended in the sanctuary against the wall on the congregation's right-hand side, a huge, rugged wooden cross. And people would go up and kneel under it. Any time! I remember at a Friday night service one fellow -- a man in his late 30s -- was lying face down spread-eagled against the floor with his hands outstreatched to it and his feet extending out behind. He stayed that way during the entire service -- music, prayer, homily, the Lord's Supper, all of it. And it was a long service, maybe two hours. (CC has a long history of long services. Sabbath services typically start at 9:30 and can last till 3:00 pm or even later. Well, I digress..... The point is that my mother wrote to me that the pastor and some others in her church, in Michigan, were proposing some sort of crosses in the sanctuary -- maybe carved into the sides of the new pews or something. At any rate, she was enraged at these "Catholic shenanigans!" And when I wrote back telling her that CC SDA church where I was attending had this enormous rugged cross leaning out from the wall -- her fury knew no bounds. I and the whole CC church was headed for hell with the pope, cardinals, bishops, priests, monks, nuns, and I don't know who all else. See what I mean? Max of the Cross | ||
| Ken |
Hi Max: Creeping? I think not, i'm 41 and they have been in my church, that I can remember at least 34 years. cheers Ken | ||
| Max |
Well, Ken, all I can say is, For 34 years you've been attending a church that has been bucking the mainstream. Does your church have a cross at the top of its steeple? Or, if no steeple, any large cross outside your church so that anybody driving by at the speed limit can easily see it and say, "Hey, there's a Seventh-day Adventist church with a cross on it! Heavenly dasies! They must have purchased the building from the Methodists and haven't gotten around to removing the cross yet." How about it, Ken? Is there a big cross outside easily visible to the whole town ? Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Yea, Ken! Just had a scary thought: Was the SDA church building where you've been attending for the past 34 years built by SDAs? Or was it PURCHASED from another denomination. You see, if it was PURCHASED, then maybe all those interior crosses were left over! Why would an SDA church build them in? Does that make sense? And was there a big cross outside that was REMOVED after the purchase was completed? You see, it is God -- and not the devil -- who is in the details! Max of the Cross | ||
| George |
Hi max, I have seen the cross on many churchs all over the USA as far back as I can remember. In face I used to wonder why they had to be just like all the "sinfull" churchs and put it up. George | ||
| Ken |
Hey Max: Wake-up pay attention! The SDA logo has a cross on it! Cheers Ken | ||
| Max |
Hey George! Why did you ^^wonder why they had to be just like all the "sinfull" churchs and put it up^^? | ||
| Max |
Buddy Ken: Along with the three angels? | ||
| Ken |
No... | ||
| Max |
The only denomination-wide SDA logo I'm aware of has three angels on it. | ||
| Max |
SDA Ken, You've still failed to give me a single example of an SDA church in the U.S. constructed by SDAs for SDA worship with a large, clearly visible cross atop a tall steeple for all the world to see. Does your silence indicate that you agree: There are none! And so the question remains: Why not? | ||
| Larimobley |
Hi, Max--I've been fine and lurking as usual. Nice to see you back posting again. My SDA grandmother told me that "our" churches didn't have crosses because that would be idolatry. I believe you're right that traditionally SDA churches did NOT display crosses. I remember being told many times throughout my SDA education that displaying crosses on churches was wrong. Are you suggesting that this is because the SDA church did not originally accept Christ as fully God, believing instead that He was the archangel Michael? And that his death did not atone for ALL our sins, only our past sins? You may be right. I never thought much about this as an Adventist, because at that time I never understood what the Cross really meant! In His grace, Lari | ||
| Ken |
Max get up with the times man. Here check this link for the logo I'm talking about. http://www.adventist.org/ .....oh and enjoy the web site while your there. You'll probably learn something. ; ) | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Ken, I just looked at as many areas on the adventist.org site as I could find in 15 minutes. I never found a CROSS, unless you were refering to the crossed t's? Since I am a bit 'puter stupid, please help me find the cross. When I asked the "search" for "The Cross" it asked me to "refine" my search? You tell me, how do you REFINE "The Cross?" God the Son was/is my REFINERY and I am Whiter than Snow. How about you? Maryann.....God's spiritually Whiter than Snow daughter;-)) | ||
| Max |
You're right Ken, I checked the http://www.adventist.org/ web site and saw the logo. This is the first time I've ever seen it. Do you know how old it is? I notice that it's very tiny and is swamped by the other symbols on the image. However, it does seem to be in the cener, to the SDAs credit. Still drawing a blank on the large, easily visible crosses on SDA church steeples? I thought so. And isn't that because they truly don't exist? |
